40 Breeder Sump & Refugium Design

[DirtDiggler2823]

Skimmer has tons of space. Now i need to get the media cups, and the acrylic. Everything from the initial cardboard cutouts looks good, layout wise. I will have to be mindful of the acrylic expansion as i make my cuts. I was totally unaware that was a thing, so thank you for that heads up. Look for more updates on the progress in a week or so.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

I just read through this whole thread and want to say - thanks to everyone here. You've made me consider a whole bunch of stuff when planning out my build. Stuff I didn't think of before (like depth of return chamber.)

Glad my thread could be helpful to others.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Looks like the sump will fit now that i did some chiseling. Time to buy acrylic and make this thing.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

I think what Reef-Junky is getting at is that a DSB is Beneficial... until it isn't. And there is plenty of evidence to support that. The conflict reports you are seeing are just people in different stages of maturity in their tank.

Note: I have a 3-4.5" deep sand bed in my tank. (Some may not actually consider this a true DSB, but I personally think going deeper is an eyesore.) I am aware of the risks of a DSB. I acknowledge they are significant. I act with care accordingly. I encourage you to do the same - as it seems to be what Reef-Junky is saying, as well.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

Looking like a great start! Keep the posts coming!

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

I think what Reef-Junky is getting at is that a DSB is Beneficial... until it isn't. And there is plenty of evidence to support that. The conflict reports you are seeing are just people in different stages of maturity in their tank.

Note: I have a 3-4.5" deep sand bed in my tank. (Some may not actually consider this a true DSB, but I personally think going deeper is an eyesore.) I am aware of the risks of a DSB. I acknowledge they are significant. I act with care accordingly. I encourage you to do the same - as it seems to be what Reef-Junky is saying, as well.

I'm hoping to have nasarius snails as a big part of my cuc, and maybe one or two in the fuge itself to help stir the sand. There is a similar issue with DSB on the freshwater side, and i just added a bunch of Malaysian Trumpet Snails to keep the sand moving. Would that approach work here?

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Looking like a great start! Keep the posts coming!

Thanks. If the dude that im trying to get rock from remains off the grid into the weekend, I'll get the acrylic and start working on the sump itself.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

I'm hoping to have nasarius snails as a big part of my cuc, and maybe one or two in the fuge itself to help stir the sand. There is a similar issue with DSB on the freshwater side, and i just added a bunch of Malaysian Trumpet Snails to keep the sand moving. Would that approach work here?

My background is planted freshwater aquariums, as well. My first love when it comes to tanks. Yes, my understanding of deep sand beds tells me the concerns are basically identical from a chemical standpoint. No, I'm not an expert in that field nor have I personally experimented with the various methods of mitigating this issue in a saltwater tank. Consider my comments on the topic, here, with an appropriately sized grain of salt.

Yes, my understanding is the Nassarius will help. No, it will not stir a super deep sand bed and is not a cure for the issue. Just be careful how you handle the deep sand bed and keep up with maintenance. Take the advice of people who have had long success with it and I have no reason to doubt you'll be fine.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

My background is planted freshwater aquariums, as well. My first love when it comes to tanks. Yes, my understanding of deep sand beds tells me the concerns are basically identical from a chemical standpoint. No, I'm not an expert in that field nor have I personally experimented with the various methods of mitigating this issue in a saltwater tank. Consider my comments on the topic, here, with an appropriately sized grain of salt.

Yes, my understanding is the Nassarius will help. No, it will not stir a super deep sand bed and is not a cure for the issue. Just be careful how you handle the deep sand bed and keep up with maintenance. Take the advice of people who have had long success with it and I have no reason to doubt you'll be fine.

Thanks!

 

[Reef-junky]

A Goby doesn’t need a DSB by the way. The only reason to run a DSB is for the potential benefits but like I said there are more post about them going wrong and crashing a tank then long term success. If your DT crashes you will have to break the tank down to get the sand out. That’s why people started using remote DSB’s. You can get the same benefits from a marine pure block that won’t potentially crash your tank. I would rather not risk killing fish and coral. Your trying to use a system that most people don’t any more. If you see black spots don’t mess with them because if you do you will get a PO4 spike. What your going to end up with will look like this:

 

[George Lopez]

I started getting denitrification bubbles in mine from not cleaning deep enough :/

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

A Goby doesn’t need a DSB by the way. The only reason to run a DSB is for the potential benefits but like I said there are more post about them going wrong and crashing a tank then long term success. If your DT crashes you will have to break the tank down to get the sand out. That’s why people started using remote DSB’s. You can get the same benefits from a marine pure block that won’t potentially crash your tank. I would rather not risk killing fish and coral. Your trying to use a system that most people don’t any more. If you see black spots don’t mess with them because if you do you will get a PO4 spike. What your going to end up with will look like this:

I take it that 3-4 inches is not a DSB?

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

I've seen deep sand beds described as something as deep as 4 inches. It kind of depends on how fine ( or, rather, how dense) your sand bed is. It's all about that aerobic/anaerobic relationship. Same as your experience with freshwater, in that way. In a planted tank, you get that anaerobic business happening pretty quick because not much is stirring it, you've got mud and other sludge like decaying plant matter that is very dense, and then you have roots pulling nutrients from it as well.

I consider my 3-4 inch deep sand bed a DSB insomuch that it is visually deep. That's why I said there are those that may argue mine is not a true DSB. I do not expect to see a lot of anaerobic activity in my sandbed at these depths. The only reason mine is the depth it is - is because that's what two bags of sand filled it up to. I put no more thought into it than that.

Unless you are planning to go past 3 inches, I'd say you can stop sweating this one

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

I've seen deep sand beds described as something as deep as 4 inches. It kind of depends on how fine ( or, rather, how dense) your sand bed is. It's all about that aerobic/anaerobic relationship. Same as your experience with freshwater, in that way. In a planted tank, you get that anaerobic business happening pretty quick because not much is stirring it, you've got mud and other sludge like decaying plant matter that is very dense, and then you have roots pulling nutrients from it as well.

I consider my 3-4 inch deep sand bed a DSB insomuch that it is visually deep. That's why I said there are those that may argue mine is not a true DSB. I do not expect to see a lot of anaerobic activity in my sandbed at these depths. The only reason mine is the depth it is - is because that's what two bags of sand filled it up to. I put no more thought into it than that.

Unless you are planning to go past 3 inches, I'd say you can stop sweating this one

Not planning on going past 3-4 inches in the DT, and I'm going with MarinePure and rubble in the sump. I should be good.

 

[Reef-junky]

In general a DSB would be 4 to 6 inches of fine sand (sugar size).

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

The rock fell through so it looks like today I'll be doing some sump building. I might make my own media cups though. We'll see what materials are available when i get there today.

 

[Reef-junky]

Take your time. Do a dry fit before you silicone anything in place. Clamps and blocks of wood to hold your baffles in place while they dry. If your going to cut acrylic use a router and go slow.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Take your time. Do a dry fit before you silicone anything in place. Clamps and blocks of wood to hold your baffles in place while they dry. If your going to cut acrylic use a router and go slow.

I'm using a hand tool for the cutting, and i will be dry fitting everything before any adhesive is used, since I have to leave a little wiggle room for acrylic expansion. I have a few joints where it's acrylic on acrylic so I'll have some additional stability in those places. I do feel that I'll need more acrylic than what i brough home, so I'll probably be heading back to lowes for a couple more things. Hardest part of any project is making that first cut.

 

[Reef-junky]

Oh you bought extruded acrylic instead of cell cast. You got the cheap crap. Those baffles are probably going to warp. That tool you bought is not a good tool for making cuts with. With the thin acrylic you bought you may get away with it. They are just baffles so if they warp or pop out it’s not going to cause a flood if it was a tank I would say take the acrylic back. Where there is acrylic on acrylic I would use weld on to get a better bond. How much did the acrylic cost? I had a glass shop cut and sand my baffles to size and it only cost me $30. With everything my sump cost $60 to make that’s the tank baffles with them cut to size and the silicone.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Oh you bought extruded acrylic instead of cell cast. You got the cheap crap. Those baffles are probably going to warp. That tool you bought is not a good tool for making cuts with. With the thin acrylic you bought you may get away with it. They are just baffles so if they warp or pop out it’s not going to cause a flood if it was a tank I would say take the acrylic back. Where there is acrylic on acrylic I would use weld on to get a better bond. How much did the acrylic cost? I had a glass shop cut and sand my baffles to size and it only cost me $30. With everything my sump cost $60 to make that’s the tank baffles with them cut to size and the silicone.

I purchased 1/4 inch acrylic sheets, and it's pretty rigid. From the instructional videos I've watched, I understand that in order to cut this stuff, I'll need to score it repeatedly, but I did not buy the cheap stuff. As far as glass shops, I live in Maryland, and EVERYTHING is insanely expensive here, especially any work that requires cutting of acrylic or glass. What cost you $60, will easily cost me 3x as much. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Right now I'm making screen tops for my other tanks, once I start cutting, I'll show you what I have.