45G Upgrade? Stocking questions!

[Evan West]

Well I won a 45g reef ready tank from Deep Blue at a frag show and might replace my 20g tank with it. The tank is actually a frag tank technically but I like its shallow form at 36*24*12. My current stock of a starry blennie, a clown fish, a royal gamma, and a cherub angelfish would be coming to the new tank. Question is what else could join them now with the larger tank? Open to anything "reef safe". At the risk of summoning the tang police any tangs?

#reefsquad

 

[reeferfoxx]

Congrats! I would keep it to nano fish just due to its height. But you might be able to stretch it some with Anthias, wrasses like a leopard wrasse, fanged blenny, starfish, or a dottyback.

 

[Evan West]

Congrats! I would keep it to nano fish just due to its height. But you might be able to stretch it some with Anthias, wrasses like a leopard wrasse, fanged blenny, starfish, or a dottyback.

Wouldn't the dotty back not like my royal gamma? I was thinking maybe a small school of cardinal fish might be cool as well.

Also Wrasses are cool, is a leopard wrasse an open water swimmer?

 

[siggy]

Congratz on the win! Lets see the build.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Wouldn't the dotty back not like my royal gamma? I was thinking maybe a small school of cardinal fish might be cool as well.

Also Wrasses are cool, is a leopard wrasse an open water swimmer?

The sunrise dottyback is the least aggressive and the cherub will grow to be semi aggressive(thats a nice way to put it). If you were looking at the royal dottyback then yes there my be issues.

The leopard wrasse is an active open swimmer but needs caves and hiding spots.

Cardinals would look nice as well

 

[Evan West]

Congratz on the win! Lets see the build.

Stay tuned for the build! Still making sure logistically and financially that I can make it work!

The sunrise dottyback is the least aggressive and the cherub will grow to be semi aggressive(thats a nice way to put it). If you were looking at the royal dottyback then yes there my be issues.

The leopard wrasse is an active open swimmer but needs caves and hiding spots.

Cardinals would look nice as well

Yeah the cherub and my clown already get at it a bit because they both think they are queen bi***. The 45g will likely be appreciated by both of them because of that. Ill look into leopard wrasses

 

[Evan West]

Hmm apparently leopard wrasses do best in groups of 3 or 4? Can a 45g handle 3 or 4 of them? They also seem to NEED some quarantine so that may be a slight issue as i dont have that capacity at the moment

 

[Evan West]

Also looking at chalk bass. yellow head jawfish, mandarin, and long-nose hawkfish. How many more fish could I add here?.....thats a loaded question I know.

 

[Evan West]

After looking around some I would like to add a long nose hawkish, and maybe a wrasse of some sort.......also maybe a mandarin.....maybe......if i dont get a wrasse that eats the pods as well......is this reasonable?

 

[ksfulk]

Hmm apparently leopard wrasses do best in groups of 3 or 4? Can a 45g handle 3 or 4 of them? They also seem to NEED some quarantine so that may be a slight issue as i dont have that capacity at the moment

I dont think thats a hard and fast rule. Ive had leopards by themselves for years. I currently have two in my tank (two different species) and they are doing fine. Leopards are a bit different than most other wrasses in that you can have them in a harem setup and they wont all turn males, but there still is some aggression between individuals. They also can be hard to get eating frozen foods and ship poorly. That said, if you can get one sourced locally, its an amazingly beautiful and robust fish. I have an ornate and a blue star (both females). They are also sand burrowing, so you need an adequate sandbed in your tank.

Chalk bass are decent in groups... I would avoid the mandarin, unless maybe you got one the the biota ones that are eating frozen food. The longnose hawk is fine, though they can irritate corals from their perching, generally if the corals are large enough it wont harm them. Unless you have a 4"+sandbed, I would also avoid the jawfish - maybe instead you could look at a pistol shrimp/goby pair? If you are looking to avoid pod eating, then steer clear of the leopard wrasses, and instead look at fairy and flasher wrasses. I dont know that Id get more than one with a tank that size however....

 

[Evan West]

I dont think thats a hard and fast rule. Ive had leopards by themselves for years. I currently have two in my tank (two different species) and they are doing fine. Leopards are a bit different than most other wrasses in that you can have them in a harem setup and they wont all turn males, but there still is some aggression between individuals. They also can be hard to get eating frozen foods and ship poorly. That said, if you can get one sourced locally, its an amazingly beautiful and robust fish. I have an ornate and a blue star (both females). They are also sand burrowing, so you need an adequate sandbed in your tank.

Chalk bass are decent in groups... I would avoid the mandarin, unless maybe you got one the the biota ones that are eating frozen food. The longnose hawk is fine, though they can irritate corals from their perching, generally if the corals are large enough it wont harm them. Unless you have a 4"+sandbed, I would also avoid the jawfish - maybe instead you could look at a pistol shrimp/goby pair? If you are looking to avoid pod eating, then steer clear of the leopard wrasses, and instead look at fairy and flasher wrasses. I dont know that Id get more than one with a tank that size however....

Yeah the more I research wrasses the more im tending twords a fairy or flasher due to the eating habits of the leopard. So it would be a long nose hawkfish and a flasher wrasse that im looking at adding, could I add more? Say a few chalk bass or that mandarin (my 20g tank is exploding with pods atm and with the bigger tank after the pod population expands further im wondering if I could support one?)

 

[ksfulk]

Yeah the more I research wrasses the more im tending twords a fairy or flasher due to the eating habits of the leopard. So it would be a long nose hawkfish and a flasher wrasse that im looking at adding, could I add more? Say a few chalk bass or that mandarin (my 20g tank is exploding with pods atm and with the bigger tank after the pod population expands further im wondering if I could support one?)

Could you? Sure. Should you? Thats upto you to answer. I wouldnt add more than 2-3 fish, depending on what their adult size is and what your rock work provides for swimming room, hiding spots and territories. I wouldnt keep a mandarin in a tank that small at all, even if it was filled with pods, because the fish are going to consume them faster than they are going to reproduce. If you are hell bent on having one, then go for it Im just offering my opinions and experience. Chalk bass tend to stay on the smaller side, but even fish like cardinals get rather large, and because this tank doesnt have a lot of vertical space, things will get crowded faster than you think.

Also - wrasses - doesnt matter the type - should have a lidded tank. If you dont want a lid, dont get a wrasse.

 

[Evan West]

Could you? Sure. Should you? Thats upto you to answer. I wouldnt add more than 2-3 fish, depending on what their adult size is and what your rock work provides for swimming room, hiding spots and territories. I wouldnt keep a mandarin in a tank that small at all, even if it was filled with pods, because the fish are going to consume them faster than they are going to reproduce. If you are hell bent on having one, then go for it Im just offering my opinions and experience. Chalk bass tend to stay on the smaller side, but even fish like cardinals get rather large, and because this tank doesnt have a lot of vertical space, things will get crowded faster than you think.

Also - wrasses - doesnt matter the type - should have a lidded tank. If you dont want a lid, dont get a wrasse.

Lid=necessary IMO....i get to attached to my fish to loose them over something stupid like no lid. Okay so hmmmm defiantly think im gonna go with a wrasse, fairy or flasher. Could I do like 2 wrasses? I have little knowledge on wrasses and conspecific compatibility.

 

[ksfulk]

Flashers are pretty and hardy, but tend to be a bit shorter lived than fairy wrasses. Not sure if its actual lifespan, age they are collected or what, but its been observed as well by people way more into wrasses than I am. That said, fairys and flashers can coexist together and rarely harass one another. Fairys can have a "complex" relationship with one another. I would highly suggest reading this article about what ones can and cant go together in the long term. Ideally, three fairy wrasses would be ideal, so there is enough individuals to spread out any aggression that occurs, while also giving you enough individuals so that the wrasses 'flash' and display for you to enjoy.

If it were up to me, I'd pick three wrasses (either flashers or fairys) and just run with that. I have an C. exquisitus, C. cf cyanopleura & C. rubeus in my tank. They display when the daylights go off and I have an hour or so of actinics for 'dusk' lighting. Flashers have a similar behavior and can actually change colors when they flash - so they are quite breath taking as well. Neither genus buries in the sand, instead they make mucus cocoons while hiding in the rockwork at night.

 

[Evan West]

Flashers are pretty and hardy, but tend to be a bit shorter lived than fairy wrasses. Not sure if its actual lifespan, age they are collected or what, but its been observed as well by people way more into wrasses than I am. That said, fairys and flashers can coexist together and rarely harass one another. Fairys can have a "complex" relationship with one another. I would highly suggest reading this article about what ones can and cant go together in the long term. Ideally, three fairy wrasses would be ideal, so there is enough individuals to spread out any aggression that occurs, while also giving you enough individuals so that the wrasses 'flash' and display for you to enjoy.

If it were up to me, I'd pick three wrasses (either flashers or fairys) and just run with that. I have an C. exquisitus, C. cf cyanopleura & C. rubeus in my tank. They display when the daylights go off and I have an hour or so of actinics for 'dusk' lighting. Flashers have a similar behavior and can actually change colors when they flash - so they are quite breath taking as well. Neither genus buries in the sand, instead they make mucus cocoons while hiding in the rockwork at night.

Okay so that info is great but dosnt talk much about flasher wrasses, so like would a McCosker's Flasher (Paracheilinus mccoskeri), Orange-Back Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus aurantidorsalis), and a Mystery Wrasse (Paracheilinus Carpenteri) work?

 

[Jesterrace]

Well I won a 45g reef ready tank from Deep Blue at a frag show and might replace my 20g tank with it. The tank is actually a frag tank technically but I like its shallow form at 36*24*12. My current stock of a starry blennie, a clown fish, a royal gamma, and a cherub angelfish would be coming to the new tank. Question is what else could join them now with the larger tank? Open to anything "reef safe". At the risk of summoning the tang police any tangs?

#reefsquad

No tangs in a 45 gallon tank

The biggest issue will be in how your established pygmy angel responds to a new tank mate as they can be aggressive to new additions. The Flasher Wrasse could work but would be easily bullied to death if the Pygmy goes after it. The Mystery Wrasse is beautiful, but if you have any shrimp be prepared to lose them (including cleaner shrimp), it is also somewhat aggressive. The Orange Back Fairy Wrasse needs more room than your tank offers. It might be a bit of a stretch but you could try a Red Lined Wrasse. The Red Lined Wrasse will eat the occasional snail or hermit crab, but it won't touch your corals and won't eat any decent sized shrimp.

Also looking at chalk bass. yellow head jawfish, mandarin, and long-nose hawkfish. How many more fish could I add here?.....thats a loaded question I know.

https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/3075/red-lined-wrasse?pcatid=3075&c=15+1379+3075

Stay away from the Mandarin until the tank is well established (ie a year or more) with a large healthy copepod population. They can polish off an entire bottle/bag of pods in less than a day and you will go broke trying to keep them fed. Even if they adapt to other food they are very slow and methodical eaters and often get beaten to the punch for food. I had a Green Mandarin in my 36 that adapted to Frozen Mysis and Reef Frenzy, I would turn off the powerheads and target feed it with a turkey baster and the other fish would actually attack it just to get at the food. Heck even my Diamond Watchman Goby would zip up and gnaw repeatedly on the end of the turkey baster. Jawfish are great lookers but spend most of their time hiding and trust me you don't want a fish that hides most of the time as it just becomes an unwanted source of nitrates for your tank. Hawkfish make me wary since they eat smaller fish, so I would only keep one in a tank with good sized fish.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Okay so that info is great but dosnt talk much about flasher wrasses, so like would a McCosker's Flasher (Paracheilinus mccoskeri), Orange-Back Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus aurantidorsalis), and a Mystery Wrasse (Paracheilinus Carpenteri) work?

A mystery wrasse is pretty aggressive to fairy and flasher wrasses.



In a 40g choose frm this catagory of flashers: mckosker, carpenter, flavianalis



Choose another from this group: filamentosus, cyaneus, lineopunctatus, angulatus



Choose 1 from this group: lunatus or isosceles


Other fairies that would work: rubeus, lubbocki, rhomboidalis, exquisitus.

The Orange Back Fairy Wrasse needs more room than your tank offers.

It's borderline, but an orangeback is doable in a 40g. I have found them to be a calmer fairy species

It might be a bit of a stretch but you could try a Red Lined Wrasse. The Red Lined Wrasse will eat the occasional snail or hermit crab, but it won't touch your corals and won't eat any decent sized shrimp.

However, they can be very effective at eating pods, so would prevent a mandarin from being added in that sized tank because the redline wrasse will outcompete the mandarin.

Hawkfish make me wary since they eat smaller fish, so I would only keep one in a tank with good sized fish.

A flame or longnose won't be problematic with any of the current or proposed livestock.

 

[Evan West]

No tangs in a 45 gallon tank

The biggest issue will be in how your established pygmy angel responds to a new tank mate as they can be aggressive to new additions. The Flasher Wrasse could work but would be easily bullied to death if the Pygmy goes after it.

I know they get aggressive but its just funny to think of it being such a terror as its like an inch and a half long and any full grow wrasse is easily twice its size. If I add all 3 of these wrasses at once would it help cut down on the pygmy aggression as it wont have just one new target to be grumpy with?

 

[eatbreakfast]

I know they get aggressive but its just funny to think of it being such a terror as its like an inch and a half long and any full grow wrasse is easily twice its size. If I add all 3 of these wrasses at once would it help cut down on the pygmy aggression as it wont have just one new target to be grumpy with?

The angel will grow, but adding all 3 wrasses at once will help.

 

[Evan West]

The angel will grow, but adding all 3 wrasses at once will help.

Hmmm now ive just gotta decide if i want a little wrasse collection or a long nose hawkfish and something else.......also still need to figure out if I can make the 45g work with school lol.