6 Months No Improvement

[ToSurfOrNot]

Okay, this is probably a result of two issues. #1 my first tank was a rescue tank, #2 I only replaced the sand.

After consulting with a trusted veteran, he thinks that replacing the sand was not enough. This tank was originally no maintenance for 4 months full of pest, critters, and extreme phosphates. I bought the tank as a steal. Sold not working vortechs and skimmer to cover everything and actually make a profit to pay for all new fiji sand.


The problem is, I think now I do need a nano protein skimmer and my veteran has suggested I either acid my rock, or put in entirely new rock. There are 0 nitrates and 0.9 Phosphates. he thinks the algae has sucked out all the nitrates and the rock is leaking phosphates. I tend to agree, but any others think something else might be at play? Otherwise I think to save the effort I am just going to add in entirely new rock and a skimmer to acompany my large sponges in the intakes for additional assistance.

Also, I was lazy because of work for the last month so I haven't dosed and my alk was at 7.0

Also only two fish, one cluster of zoas and overrun with Nems as that was in the tank when I got it. This has been me doing 33% water changes every week for the last 6 months and I haven't made a dent.

 

[Rtaylor]

Do you have a sufficient cuc? You need a lot more than most people realize (at least 1 critter per gallon of a wide variety of snails, urchins, crabs, shrimp,etc.).

pics? Tank size?

The phosphate level isn’t crazy high. Lanthum chloride can drop it quicker which will help make the process much easier if the rock is leaching phosphate.

7 for alk is fine. Given you have a tank full of healthy anemones, it’s probably a healthier ecosystem than you might think. Replacing all the rock with dry rock will likely kill all the anemones. You’ll also need to wait 6+ months to get back to the current biodiversity you have. I wouldn’t do it unless there’s something besides algae that’s a concern.

Instead of replacing all the rock with dry rock, just add some high quality live rock (like aquacultured Florida rock). It will increase biodiversity which is your best friend in the reef game. Sterile tanks are bound for problem after problem.

 

[old salt reefer]

THE PROBLEM IS, I think now I do need a nano protein skimmer and my veteran has suggested I either acid my rock, or put in entirely new rock. There are 0 nitrates and 0.9 Phosphates. he thinks the ALGAE has sucked out all the nitrates and the rock is leaking phosphates. I tend to agree, but any others think something else might be at play?

Also, I was lazy because of work for the last month so I haven't dosed and my alk was at 7.0

Also only two fish, one cluster of zoas and overrun with Nems as that was in the tank when I got it. This has been me doing 33% water changes every week for the last 6 months and I haven't made a dent.

No improvement in what?
The problem is you need a skimmer? (your words)

Is the problem algae and no matter what you've done there has been no improvement in 6 months?

 

[ToSurfOrNot]

No improvement in what?
The problem is you need a skimmer? (your words)

Is the problem algae and no matter what you've done there has been no improvement in 6 months?

It’s a 45 gallon and has other issues from this persons tank. Lots of Asterin and Aptasia, I already bought a skimmer in route.

I don’t mind losing the Nems as I actually don’t want an explosion of them. I’d rather have the real estate for coral.

only CUC I had was three emerald crabs and shrimp. Saw the emerald crab die, not sure why and never saw the shrimp after adding them (Pistol).

Algae is a problem as I have four different types, and even after an extremely good glass cleaning, pinching and suctioning and toothbrush it will all be back within 10 days or less. Added a file fish but he didn’t survive acclimation. Not sure what happened but he did seem a little iffy at the store as he was somewhat vertical in their tank.

 

[Tamberav]

Well you can't get algae under control with 3 emeralds and a shrimp (shrimp generally do not eat algae). You need a bunch of snails (trochus imo), and maybe an urchin.

I personally don't mind infested rock and bought some myself because it was pukini which you can't dry find anymore. It had lots of bad stuff.

You can just add critters to eat the pest nems.. peppermint shrimp or aiptasia eating filefish are popular for smaller tanks. I have a copperband butterfly.

Asterina starfish are generally not a problem, I have a million of them. They eat algae. I siphon them off when I do a water change to keep numbers more under control. Some might think them unsightly, I think they are cute and part of the diverse CUC.

Phosphates... you could just run some GFO in a reactor to get them lower.

You could also just start over but that is up to you. I find live rock valuable but I have the experience to deal with the bad I suppose.

 

[ToSurfOrNot]

Well you can't get algae under control with 3 emeralds and a shrimp (shrimp generally do not eat algae). You need a bunch of snails (trochus imo), and maybe an urchin.

I personally don't mind infested rock and bought some myself because it was pukini which you can't dry find anymore. It had lots of bad stuff.

You can just add critters to eat the pest nems.. peppermint shrimp or aiptasia eating filefish are popular for smaller tanks. I have a copperband butterfly.

Asterina starfish are generally not a problem, I have a million of them. They eat algae. I siphon them off when I do a water change to keep numbers more under control. Some might think them unsightly, I think they are cute and part of the diverse CUC.

Phosphates... you could just run some GFO in a reactor to get them lower.

You could also just start over but that is up to you. I find live rock valuable but I have the experience to deal with the bad I suppose.

This isn’t particularly valuable or attractive rock. I thought about GFO but this is a fairly low tech tank. I have a heater and UV sterilize and media in the back and that’s about it. + a skimmer on the way. But for 33% weekly water changes to make no difference seems kind of bad?

 

[Rtaylor]

Lanthum chloride is a way faster and cheaper alternative to GFO and you drip it into your filter socks or sump area so you don’t need any equipment, just airline hose and an adjustable valve. Less than $5 in equipment. Without a diverse cuc, you’ll always have algae issues. I agree none of the pest problems seem unmanageable. Pics would help.
Look at

Diverse Crew (50 Gallon)

Shipped for free with UPS Overnight you will get: 3 Trochus Snails -Eats Diatoms, cyano, film and hair algae and detritus on the rocks and glass in your tank. 1 Emerald Crab - Mithrax crabs have...

www.reefcleaners.org

to get an idea on what you actually need for cuc.

Maybe look into an ICP test.

Are you using RODI water for the water changes?

You can sell the nems to area reefers or trade to LFS, Plesse don’t just kill them.

PICS WOULD HELP!

 

[Tamberav]

This isn’t particularly valuable or attractive rock. I thought about GFO but this is a fairly low tech tank. I have a heater and UV sterilize and media in the back and that’s about it. + a skimmer on the way. But for 33% weekly water changes to make no difference seems kind of bad?

idk my phosphate is so high in my softy tank that it is off the scale but it doesn't cause algae other then some cyano on a low flow area only that never does anything but sit in that one spot.

I suppose it doesn't cause algae cuz the rock is old and knows how to defend itself..

 

[Rtaylor]

idk my phosphate is so high in my softy tank that it is off the scale but it doesn't cause algae other then some cyano on a low flow area only that never does anything but sit in that one spot.

I suppose it doesn't cause algae cuz the rock is old and knows how to defend itself..

I regularly get over 1.0 for phosphate and no algae problems……. So I agree ‘fixing’ that is no guarantee. I see tons of posts for people with virtually undetectable phosphate having algae problems….

 

[Rtaylor]

idk my phosphate is so high in my softy tank that it is off the scale but it doesn't cause algae other then some cyano on a low flow area only that never does anything but sit in that one spot.

I suppose it doesn't cause algae cuz the rock is old and knows how to defend itself..

I actually have to feed sheets of algae to my abalone’s because there isn’t enough algae for them to eat. Hungry monsters! This is Oscar, my big guy and I have a baby about half as big too.

 

[Tamberav]

I actually have to feed sheets of algae to my abalone’s because there isn’t enough algae for them to eat. Hungry monsters! This is Oscar, my big guy and I have a baby about half as big too.

Love him! I had some many many years ago as hitchikers. Too cool!

Was he a hitchiker for you or did you buy him?

 

[ToSurfOrNot]

Lanthum chloride is a way faster and cheaper alternative to GFO and you drip it into your filter socks or sump area so you don’t need any equipment, just airline hose and an adjustable valve. Less than $5 in equipment. Without a diverse cuc, you’ll always have algae issues. I agree none of the pest problems seem unmanageable. Pics would help.
Look at

Diverse Crew (50 Gallon)

Shipped for free with UPS Overnight you will get: 3 Trochus Snails -Eats Diatoms, cyano, film and hair algae and detritus on the rocks and glass in your tank. 1 Emerald Crab - Mithrax crabs have...

www.reefcleaners.org

to get an idea on what you actually need for cuc.

Maybe look into an ICP test.

Are you using RODI water for the water changes?

You can sell the nems to area reefers or trade to LFS, Plesse don’t just kill them.

PICS WOULD HELP!

I will add pics in the morning. I have the BRS 5 stage RODI unit. It’s possible the previous owner used copper. I know phosphates won’t affect everything but I do plan on putting some coral in that like it low. Of course I won’t kill anything. Just giving it all to my LFS

 

[Rtaylor]

Love him! I had some many many years ago as hitchikers. Too cool!

Was he a hitchiker for you or did you buy him?

I had to purchase mine. That would be an awesome hitchhiker!

 

[Rtaylor]

I will add pics in the morning. I have the BRS 5 stage RODI unit. It’s possible the previous owner used copper. I know phosphates won’t affect everything but I do plan on putting some coral in that like it low. Of course I won’t kill anything. Just giving it all to my LFS

You should test for copper, maybe run some cuprisorb. ICP test if you can’t detect copper, but suspect it is present.

 

[Tamberav]

I had to purchase mine. That would be an awesome hitchhiker!

haha well it was awesome except I had a million of them... It was rock from indo or whatever way back.. that looked insane and had crazy hitchhikers.

 

[ToSurfOrNot]

idk my phosphate is so high in my softy tank that it is off the scale but it doesn't cause algae other then some cyano on a low flow area only that never does anything but sit in that one spot.

I suppose it doesn't cause algae cuz the rock is old and knows how to defend itself..

Yea I do have some natural light hitting it early morning. I will be doing a big glass clean and maintenance tomorrow after chemo clean. But as you can see the glass has some green algae. Tons of hair algae on rock and some spots of bubble. Had a bit of cyano but it’s mostly gone now.

 

[Rtaylor]

Yea I do have some natural light hitting it early morning. I will be doing a big glass clean and maintenance tomorrow after chemo clean. But as you can see the glass has some green algae. Tons of hair algae on rock and some spots of bubble. Had a bit of cyano but it’s mostly gone now.

That’s not bad at all considering you have no cuc. Get the cuc! First check for copper as it will kill inverts. Definitely no need to start over. I think you’re underestimating the pain and uglies of starting over. Algae is often much worse than that during tank maturation and it takes at least a year to really get through it all especially if not using live rock.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Okay, this is probably a result of two issues. #1 my first tank was a rescue tank, #2 I only replaced the sand.

After consulting with a trusted veteran, he thinks that replacing the sand was not enough. This tank was originally no maintenance for 4 months full of pest, critters, and extreme phosphates. I bought the tank as a steal. Sold not working vortechs and skimmer to cover everything and actually make a profit to pay for all new fiji sand.


The problem is, I think now I do need a nano protein skimmer and my veteran has suggested I either acid my rock, or put in entirely new rock. There are 0 nitrates and 0.9 Phosphates. he thinks the algae has sucked out all the nitrates and the rock is leaking phosphates. I tend to agree, but any others think something else might be at play? Otherwise I think to save the effort I am just going to add in entirely new rock and a skimmer to acompany my large sponges in the intakes for additional assistance.

Also, I was lazy because of work for the last month so I haven't dosed and my alk was at 7.0

Also only two fish, one cluster of zoas and overrun with Nems as that was in the tank when I got it. This has been me doing 33% water changes every week for the last 6 months and I haven't made a dent.

Having a tank at or near a window will always invite algae as the powerof UV will penetrate shades/blinds/curtains. Placing a sheet of black construction paper on the side facing the window will often reduce or alleviate the algae production within days.
Also what is your phosphate level?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet?

Pull as much algae as you can by hand and reduce white light intensity and number of hours of white lighting and add some snails such as :
Astrea
cerith
turbo grazer
trochus

A Pencil urchin

8-10 Caribbean blue leg hermits

 

[ToSurfOrNot]

That’s not bad at all considering you have no cuc. Get the cuc! First check for copper as it will kill inverts. Definitely no need to start over. I think you’re underestimating the pain and uglies of starting over. Algae is often much worse than that during tank maturation and it takes at least a year to really get through it all especially if not using live rock.

I will add some copper remover. I do have two Mexican snails in there since day one. The emerald crabs did die but maybe that’s because they finished the bubble algae the first time around. I did try to feed them algae wafers though.

another reason I wanted to start over was removing the rock would remove 90% of the Aptasia and Nems as I want coral real estate, I was thinking of wire brushing the rock in RO water today. I have a drill attachment with a brush that does wonders.

another store did recommend keeping the rock and adding Chemi Into the tank to pull our phosphates from the rock.