60 Gallon Cube Predator Reef Tank - Stocking Ideas

[Callieach]

We currently have a 60 gallon cube (with a 10 gallon DIY sump) that is cycling, so no fish will be added any time soon. This is an upgrade for our 14 gallon BioCube that currently houses a very small saddle valentini puffer (1.5"), 2 tomato clownfish (1" each), 1 Yellow Watchman Goby (1.5"), 1 Pistol Shrimp (1", paired with the goby), 1 small purple Haitian anemone, 1 small green bubble tip anemone, and several small corals. This tank has been up and running for a year, with the fishes being the last thing added several weeks ago, and the 60 cube is a massive upgrade for it.

After the cube is cycled and everything is transferred over from the biocube and has had plenty of time to settle... I will not be adding anything quickly, as I don't want to crash the system.... I am thinking of turning it in to a predator-ish reef tank since we already have a peaceful 75 gallon reef set up right next to it. I think the contrast would be kinda cool to see in the same room.

Aside from what is listed above, here are the options I've come up with so far as far as a further stock waaaay in the future of this tank:

• Six Line Wrasse (semi aggressive, reef safe, 3" max length) OR Divided Leopard Wrasse (peaceful, 5" max length, getting conflicting information on whether or not this is reef safe... Anyone have any experience with these?)

• Longnose Hawkfish (semi aggressive, reef safe w/ caution, 5" max length) OR Red Hawkfish (semi aggressive, reef safe w/ caution, 6" max length)

• Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish (semi aggressive, reef safe w/ caution, 7" max length) OR Zebra Dwarf Lionfish (semi aggressive, reef safe w/ caution, 7" max length)

• Snowflake Eel (semi aggressive, reef safe w/ caution, 2' max length)

Thoughts/Suggestions/Comments/Recommendations are welcome!

 

[lion king]

Considering your current occupants and the dimensions of a 60g cube, I would vote for the hawkfish, either one or even try to get a bonded pair on dd.

The leopard wrasse needs more laterally swim room and are usually pretty challenging. The lionfish also need more length and are likely not suitable for your community tank because of feeding challenges, do your research on feeding dwarf lionfish. You've probably noticed the pistol shrimp likely dominants the sand bed, I doubt if sharing with a snowflake eel would be a good idea, he also gets just over the length of your tank. The sixline would probably work but are usually more trouble than they are worth.

 

[Callieach]

Considering your current occupants and the dimensions of a 60g cube, I would vote for the hawkfish, either one or even try to get a bonded pair on dd.

The leopard wrasse needs more laterally swim room and are usually pretty challenging. The lionfish also need more length and are likely not suitable for your community tank because of feeding challenges, do your research on feeding dwarf lionfish. You've probably noticed the pistol shrimp likely dominants the sand bed, I doubt if sharing with a snowflake eel would be a good idea, he also gets just over the length of your tank. The sixline would probably work but are usually more trouble than they are worth.

The snowflake might be taken off of the list. I really, really want one, but my partner doesn't want to have to cover the tank because of potential gas exchange issues...

And, yes. The pistol shrimp dominates the substrate in the biocube, so I can see how a snowflake eel could cause issues in that regard.

Also considering the Fu Manchu Lionfish and the Flame Hawkfish since we've seen several people with them in reef tanks and my partner has experience with that specific lionfish.

My partner had a predator reef several years ago. He had a dogface puffer, fu manchu lionfish, boxfish, and a scorpionfish in his old 75 show tank. I know that lionfish and puffers create a massive bioload because they eat... A lot. And are messy eaters. It's one reason I'm religious about weekly water changes and clearing any uneaten food from the tanks. I only run tests when cycling/the first 6 months or if something doesn't seem right in between water changes (only happened once so far, and it was because we had a wrasse get stuck in the substrate behind the rock work and it took too long to figure it out).

Do you know of any wrasses that would go well in a predator reef tank that don't burrow in the substrate? The six line wrasse that we used to have in the 75 peaceful reef that we have was always out front and center, but he was a bit of a bully in that tank. Hence why he was removed. But... I figured a six line would be okay in the 60 cube considering it'd be in there with other predators?

This tank is still cycling, and I'm waiting on the new skimmer to arrive later this week since the one we had for it developed a crack in it that we were unaware of. So, it's going to be a while until the occupants of the biocube are transferred over and others are added. Just trying to get a feel on others' thoughts and opinions and suggestions for turning this into a predator dominated reef tank.

;Happy;Happy;Happy;Happy;Happy

 

[lion king]

One question, how long did your partner keep the fu manchu. The fu would work in your tank but many do not/can not provide adaquate care fot them. Their lifespan in the wild is 10-15 years.

 

[Callieach]

One question, how long did your partner keep the fu manchu. The fu would work in your tank but many do not/can not provide adaquate care fot them. Their lifespan in the wild is 10-15 years.

He had it for about 3 years until the blizzard in the early 90s wiped his tanks out due to power being out for so long. We have a generator specifically for the tanks now, though.

 

[lion king]

3 years is good as most barely keep them several months and rarely much more than a year and a half. A fu would be good in a cube but the other 2 you mentioned would be happier in a longer tank.

 

[Soren]

The snowflake might be taken off of the list. I really, really want one, but my partner doesn't want to have to cover the tank because of potential gas exchange issues...

I am really new to marine aquariums, but the 75-gallon tank I got came with a snowflake eel about 11" long. There was no lid originally, but the previous owner mentioned we might find fish skeletons behind the tank when we were moving it...
After some research, I decided to use clear netting in a screen window frame made to fit my tank. This should not limit gas exchange, since the top is still mostly open with 1/4" square holes. I bought the frame corners, sides, and netting from Bulk Reef Supply, though I realized afterward that I could probably have gotten the same at my local hardware store. It was a simple and fairly cheap lid solution without limiting gas exchange.

My snowflake eel stays under a certain rock with just his head peeking out most of the time, though he does swim up to the top during feeding times when he is hungry and curls around the filter return distributor tube about 3" below the top. It concerned me enough to get a lid, though I quite enjoy hand-feeding him while he is at the top. The screens make for easy access while being a safe-guard when I am not around.

 

[Callieach]

I am really new to marine aquariums, but the 75-gallon tank I got came with a snowflake eel about 11" long. There was no lid originally, but the previous owner mentioned we might find fish skeletons behind the tank when we were moving it...
After some research, I decided to use clear netting in a screen window frame made to fit my tank. This should not limit gas exchange, since the top is still mostly open with 1/4" square holes. I bought the frame corners, sides, and netting from Bulk Reef Supply, though I realized afterward that I could probably have gotten the same at my local hardware store. It was a simple and fairly cheap lid solution without limiting gas exchange.

My snowflake eel stays under a certain rock with just his head peeking out most of the time, though he does swim up to the top during feeding times when he is hungry and curls around the filter return distributor tube about 3" below the top. It concerned me enough to get a lid, though I quite enjoy hand-feeding him while he is at the top. The screens make for easy access while being a safe-guard when I am not around.

I'll bring this up with him when he gets home from work. With the pistol shrimp being the substrate king, though, we still might have to take the snowflake eel off of the list. Doing more research on compatibility with those two though.

 

[Callieach]

3 years is good as most barely keep them several months and rarely much more than a year and a half. A fu would be good in a cube but the other 2 you mentioned would be happier in a longer tank.

Might go with the Fu Manchu Lionfish if we can find one. They stay small, too, from what my partner has told me. Said his got to about 4".

Doing more research on wrasses and hawkfish, too. Seeing what other options are out there that would work well in this tank.

 

[lion king]

Might go with the Fu Manchu Lionfish if we can find one. They stay small, too, from what my partner has told me. Said his got to about 4".

Doing more research on wrasses and hawkfish, too. Seeing what other options are out there that would work well in this tank.

I just lost my fu of over 8 years, she was over 5", would easily eat your current fish at their size. A Fu usually come in at 3.5 to 4", all your fish would need to get a bit bigger. The fu will eat something more than 1/2 their size, the ywg because of being slender would have to be even larger.

 

[Callieach]

I just lost my fu of over 8 years, she was over 5", would easily eat your current fish at their size. A Fu usually come in at 3.5 to 4", all your fish would need to get a bit bigger. The fu will eat something more than 1/2 their size, the ywg because of being slender would have to be even larger.

The Watchman Goby stays in the tunnels that the pistol shrimp has created under the substrate. So far, anyhow, though that might change once everyone's over in the 60 gallon? Only see him perched at a tunnel entrance during feeding times.

Anything aside from what would be transferred over from the biocube once the 60 is ready would be added when they're as small as I can find them.

Wanting to add to the list of possible future tank mates...

The Fu Manchu Lionfish
Flame Hawkfish
Multicolor Lubbock's Fairy Wrasse (from what I've been reading, these don't burrow in the substrate to sleep, and there will be lots of caves and hiding places in the rock work).

The Snowflake has been removed from the list. Aside from potential issues between it and the pistol shrimp (and the eel likely munching away on said shrimp), I do not want to put an eel in to a potentially cramped environment in terms of available swimming room/length to the tank. If we upgrade the 75 to a 125, I might be able to convince the other half to set the 75 up for an eel.

 

[PicassoClown04]

Hi! Great idea removing the eel. Especially since y’all don’t want to cover the tank, that eel was a bad idea. If you wanted to go with a Dwarf Golden moray I think that would be a really cool idea but I cannot stress enough the importance of a lid when it comes to eels!!

I’d say follow Lion King’s advice on the Fu Manchu, IMO they should probably be in a species-only tank or close to it where their needs can be met and their diets are very difficult to maintain for the average person.

I love your choice about the hawk fish, I have a geometric hawk myself and am looking at getting a longnose for another tank. They are my favorites! Just don’t put any sexy shrimp in there and you’ll be fine, they are reef safe just not invert safe. The flame hawk is cool too, but I personally prefer the geometric/longnose because I’m not worried about my peppermint shrimp and they have the added bonus of looking like imitation crab meat.

The fairy wrasse sounds good! Very colorful fish and will add some life to the tank

 

[Callieach]

Hi! Great idea removing the eel. Especially since y’all don’t want to cover the tank, that eel was a bad idea. If you wanted to go with a Dwarf Golden moray I think that would be a really cool idea but I cannot stress enough the importance of a lid when it comes to eels!!

I’d say follow Lion King’s advice on the Fu Manchu, IMO they should probably be in a species-only tank or close to it where their needs can be met and their diets are very difficult to maintain for the average person.

I love your choice about the hawk fish, I have a geometric hawk myself and am looking at getting a longnose for another tank. They are my favorites! Just don’t put any sexy shrimp in there and you’ll be fine, they are reef safe just not invert safe. The flame hawk is cool too, but I personally prefer the geometric/longnose because I’m not worried about my peppermint shrimp and they have the added bonus of looking like imitation crab meat.

The fairy wrasse sounds good! Very colorful fish and will add some life to the tank

The only frozen meat that is hard to get in my area is octopus/squid. Been feeding the puffers and anemones a combination of shrimp, scallops, and clams - though the small saddleback puffer does get PE mysis regularly since it's still very small. For it, i'll typically put a tiny piece of shrimp or scallop on a clip and let it pick at that for 10 minutes or so before removing it just so that it doesn't get solely mysis to grow on. Any lionfish we get would be on the same meaty mixed diet. Don't want to feed the same thing constantly and have anything miss out on potential vitamins and proteins from other meats.

For the hawkfish.. I'm torn between a Flame hawkfish and a Longnose. I might go with the Longnose just for a different color variation in the tank, but I'm still far from making a decision on that. x_x

The only shrimp that will be in the tank is the pistol shrimp - unless my partner transfers one of the cleaner shrimp from the 75 (there's 3 in there right now and he's been teasing that he'll put one in the 60). If that happens, I really don't see the cleaner shrimp lasting long with a hawkfish/lion/puffer combo potentially being in that tank.

As far as the wrasse goes, I'm trying to find one that won't bury in the substrate to sleep. Don't want the pistol shrimp to get in to a turf war with a wrasse. And I know that the fairy and flasher wrasses are, for the most part, reef safe.

 

[PicassoClown04]

The only frozen meat that is hard to get in my area is octopus/squid. Been feeding the puffers and anemones a combination of shrimp, scallops, and clams - though the small saddleback puffer does get PE mysis regularly since it's still very small. For it, i'll typically put a tiny piece of shrimp or scallop on a clip and let it pick at that for 10 minutes or so before removing it just so that it doesn't get solely mysis to grow on. Any lionfish we get would be on the same meaty mixed diet. Don't want to feed the same thing constantly and have anything miss out on potential vitamins and proteins from other meats.

For the hawkfish.. I'm torn between a Flame hawkfish and a Longnose. I might go with the Longnose just for a different color variation in the tank, but I'm still far from making a decision on that. x_x

The only shrimp that will be in the tank is the pistol shrimp - unless my partner transfers one of the cleaner shrimp from the 75 (there's 3 in there right now and he's been teasing that he'll put one in the 60). If that happens, I really don't see the cleaner shrimp lasting long with a hawkfish/lion/puffer combo potentially being in that tank.

As far as the wrasse goes, I'm trying to find one that won't bury in the substrate to sleep. Don't want the pistol shrimp to get in to a turf war with a wrasse. And I know that the fairy and flasher wrasses are, for the most part, reef safe.

I wouldn’t get a lion if you’re planning on feeding a dead-only diet. As Lion King has said over and over again in many threads, lions and scorps really need a live food based diet with dead meats being only bulking foods to help with the bills and for variety

 

[lion king]

I watched a fu manchu stalk a damsel for a couple of days, they are very elusive and she couldn't catch him. She found out where he was sleeping and camped outside of his hidey hole. One morning the damsel came out, the fu was waiting, she had a nice fat belly. I've seen lions eat fish that were almost as long as they were, big enough where most would think they would not eat them. So big that they couldn't get them all the way down with one gulp and the tail was sticking out. I've witness many people upset when lions ate their fish, please don't under estimate their capabilities.

I try not to harp on it too much anymore because people are going to do what people are going to do. But you can not 100% rely on the possibility of converting a dwarf lion to a dead food only diet. And those that do rarely ever provide the dead diet adequate for proper nutrition to achieve long term success. You can search and search and you will likely never find anyone with a full grown mature dwarf lion that has been kept on a dead only diet.

 

[Callieach]

I wouldn’t get a lion if you’re planning on feeding a dead-only diet. As Lion King has said over and over again in many threads, lions and scorps really need a live food based diet with dead meats being only bulking foods to help with the bills and for variety

I watched a fu manchu stalk a damsel for a couple of days, they are very elusive and she couldn't catch him. She found out where he was sleeping and camped outside of his hidey hole. One morning the damsel came out, the fu was waiting, she had a nice fat belly. I've seen lions eat fish that were almost as long as they were, big enough where most would think they would not eat them. So big that they couldn't get them all the way down with one gulp and the tail was sticking out. I've witness many people upset when lions ate their fish, please don't under estimate their capabilities.

I try not to harp on it too much anymore because people are going to do what people are going to do. But you can not 100% rely on the possibility of converting a dwarf lion to a dead food only diet. And those that do rarely ever provide the dead diet adequate for proper nutrition to achieve long term success. You can search and search and you will likely never find anyone with a full grown mature dwarf lion that has been kept on a dead only diet.

The lionfish that my partner used to have was live fed with goldfish at the time (this was in the early 90s). While the puffers and other carnivores get a combo of frozen foods, I think any lionfish we get would be live fed with frozen supplemented. Been looking at what's needed to keep ghost shrimp readily available here at the house for if we get a lion. That way we can pack the shrimp with proteins and vitamins before feeding to the lion to help with needed nutrients. If we can't keep ghost shrimp, we'll more than likely make a weekly trip to an LFS for ghost shrimp feeders - nearest one is an hour away.

I've also got an order of LRS Reef Frenzy on the way to help supplement both tanks with extra meats and proteins that we can't get locally.

The ghost shrimp should help stimulate hunting/feeding responses, too.

 

[lion king]

LRS would be a dead food that would be a good addition. I'm not sure how valuable the enrichments will be, but on paper it sounds good. I grill fresh salmon at least weekly, a cut a hunk for my preds that will eat it. Including fresh fatty fish seems to be be valuable. My last volitan was on a dead only diet; his main diet was fresh salmon, fresh or 2 weeks frozen shell on shrimp, and hikari silversides: he lived about 12 years in captivity. Dwarf lions seem to be more picky although I do have a fuzzy that will take limited amounts of this diet. My last fu almost exclusively ate live mollies the last 2-3 years.

Getting live food to the fu will be challenging with the puffer in the tank, this is another road block that people come up against in a community tank. You can use a tool like a rigid airline to block the puffer or other aggressive fish from outcompeting the fu.

 

[Fish man]

LRS would be a dead food that would be a good addition. I'm not sure how valuable the enrichments will be, but on paper it sounds good. I grill fresh salmon at least weekly, a cut a hunk for my preds that will eat it. Including fresh fatty fish seems to be be valuable. My last volitan was on a dead only diet; his main diet was fresh salmon, fresh or 2 weeks frozen shell on shrimp, and hikari silversides: he lived about 12 years in captivity. Dwarf lions seem to be more picky although I do have a fuzzy that will take limited amounts of this diet. My last fu almost exclusively ate live mollies the last 2-3 years.

Getting live food to the fu will be challenging with the puffer in the tank, this is another road block that people come up against in a community tank. You can use a tool like a rigid airline to block the puffer or other aggressive fish from outcompeting the fu.

Hey Lion King I don't wanna hijack this thread but I'd like to get more information on good lionfish diet. I just purchased a dwarf zebra and he's eating ghost shrimp now. I need to get him on a more nutritious diet. Do you have a thread on this or is there a some place that has credible information? I lost my last one at about a year. Probably due to thiaminase from dead only diet. I've been following some of your posts and you are the expert. What do you feed? Please help.

 

[Cole.mormon]

Get a pair of long nose hawkfish

 

[lion king]

Hey Lion King I don't wanna hijack this thread but I'd like to get more information on good lionfish diet. I just purchased a dwarf zebra and he's eating ghost shrimp now. I need to get him on a more nutritious diet. Do you have a thread on this or is there a some place that has credible information? I lost my last one at about a year. Probably due to thiaminase from dead only diet. I've been following some of your posts and you are the expert. What do you feed? Please help.

If you click on my name and then find all threads, you'll find a few post that talk about diet. Rather than to hijack this thread, start your own and include the lions you'd like to keep, and I will respond. I am planning another nutritional thread, so stay tuned.