600 Gallon Return Pump Solution Needed

[Jeff D.]

Hello there reefers! So this is my first official post, however, I have been reading your posts for quite some time now. It's awesome to learn from others and I spend hours on these forums reading away.

So my project this summer is the 600 Gallon system I recently purchased used. I am sure I will be asking more questions as I go through the full restore and basically re-designing the systems on it. I was looking for a 350-400 and then found this one at a cost way too good to pass up, so here I am!

I am looking for advice on what the best return pump solution would be. The previous owner had a single Reeflo Hammerhead on this system. (6000 gph) I got the pump in the sale, however, the pump has seen better days for sure and I don't want to risk the whole system on this pump, so long story short, I am getting a new pump(s) of some sort.

This brings me to my questions:
- (1) large pump or (2) at half the size (redundancy in the system)
- Which makes / models of pumps would you recommend for this?
- If (2) pumps, do you Y them together (after check valves) and run (1) manifold or two independent systems?

Other bits of info...
- Not saying money is no object, but I do want to do this right. (However, the $2,800 Abyzz sounds amazing but I am hoping to spend less than this. lol )
- The solution doesn't need to be SILENT, but quiet is important as the tank will be in a common office environment
- I was thinking of getting two Vectra L2's but would love to hear other options as I hear these don't play well with the APEX (which I will be getting)

Thank you so much to any assistance or advice you can share!

Photo of the tank and stand currently sitting in my garage for your curiosity:

 

[Trickman2]

I just switched to a Vectra L2 on my 300 gallon. Was running a big dolphin ampmaster. I almost bought two. I still might add another one down the line. I am running a apex also but not sure if I really care if it works with the apex.

 

[joseserrano]

2 pumps, go with Abyzz if you can afford it, otherwise there a lot of large submersible pumps out now. Skimz, Sunpole, Tunze,...

 

[lapin]

Old school. I use a Reeflo Hammerhead /Cuda Gold pump. For $2800 you can buy 4 or 5 of them.

 

[Jeff D.]

2 pumps, go with Abyzz if you can afford it, otherwise there a lot of large submersible pumps out now. Skimz, Sunpole, Tunze,...

Thank you! Would you suggest (2) of the large Abyzz or (2) of a smaller size?

 

[Jeff D.]

Old school. I use a Reeflo Hammerhead /Cuda Gold pump. For $2800 you can buy 4 or 5 of them.

Have you had any problems with your Hammerheads? I have read many people having problems with the seals leaking?

 

[Hemmdog]

I would go Abyzz. Especially if it’s in an office environment.

 

[Trickman2]

Have you had any problems with your Hammerheads? I have read many people having problems with the seals leaking?

Do not go with REEFLO you asking for trouble (Also REEFLO PUMPS ARE LOUD)...Seals fail all the time. Dolphin pumps (Quiet) are better but still prone to issues. With pumps like Vectras, I don't see a reason to go with REEFLO or Dolphin anymore. Just my opinion but I have used lots of pumps over the years. Your welcome to look at my latest tank. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/trickman2s-280-gallon-upgrade.369124/

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

So a few questions come to mind:

Will there be a sump directly under the tank or will there be a fish room? If fish room then will it be on the same floor or the floor below? I am basically trying to figure out how many feet of "head" the pump will need to overcome.

With such a large tank I would absolutely recommend two separate pumps, and they should have independently plumbed returns to the tank, definitely NOT "y" plumbed together. The reason for that is if a pump were to fail and they are plumbed in a Y some percentage (probably 60-70% guesstimate) of the water from the working pump would take the route of least resistance and just go down the Y and back into the sump instead of the display.

If this was my tank and the sump was directly under the tank I would go with two Vectra's L2. Sure they can not be controlled by the Apex but really the pump just needs to be on at constant flow 100% of the time, not much need for fancy controls in my opinion. (Nope, I do not turn off the pumps when I feed, the Cheato in the sump needs to eat too!)

If you need a pump able to overcome significant head pressure (Fish room floor below tank) then non-submersible (external) pumps come to mind, Iwaki and such.

Good luck with your build!

 

[joseserrano]

Old school. I use a Reeflo Hammerhead /Cuda Gold pump. For $2800 you can buy 4 or 5 of them.

yes, but that would not resolve the possible leaks they are known to have, or pain it would be to have to change and service these guys. Abyzz has the 10 year warranty as well.

 

[lapin]

Have you had any problems with your Hammerheads? I have read many people having problems with the seals leaking?

I had a seal leak after 4 years on a gold dart /snapper . Not a big leak just a drip here and there. Salt creep.

 

[Jeff D.]

So a few questions come to mind:

Will there be a sump directly under the tank or will there be a fish room? If fish room then will it be on the same floor or the floor below? I am basically trying to figure out how many feet of "head" the pump will need to overcome.

With such a large tank I would absolutely recommend two separate pumps, and they should have independently plumbed returns to the tank, definitely NOT "y" plumbed together. The reason for that is if a pump were to fail and they are plumbed in a Y some percentage (probably 60-70% guesstimate) of the water from the working pump would take the route of least resistance and just go down the Y and back into the sump instead of the display.

If this was my tank and the sump was directly under the tank I would go with two Vectra's L2. Sure they can not be controlled by the Apex but really the pump just needs to be on at constant flow 100% of the time, not much need for fancy controls in my opinion. (Nope, I do not turn off the pumps when I feed, the Cheato in the sump needs to eat too!)

If you need a pump able to overcome significant head pressure (Fish room floor below tank) then non-submersible (external) pumps come to mind, Iwaki and such.

Good luck with your build!

Thank you so much for the insight. Sorry... totally should have explained that in my first post. There will be a sump directly under the tank. (and I quite large one too, I believe it is around 150-200 gallons) I plan on using some sort of external pumps next to the sump to sent the water back up to the DT. So not a crazy amount of head pressure needed.

Great point with the Y. Even if I had check valves coming right after the pumps, you feel it could flow back through? My question is in running two independent lines, do I just pick and choose what else gets run off each line? Example: Take the reactors and run them off the manifold for pump 1 and then the UV and anything else off pump 2? Does that make sense? Has anyone run such a thing before and have photos of how they did it? I am trying to ask many questions before doing it to make my best effort of building it correctly from the beginning.

So in going the Vectras, would I just let APEX control the power of them in an ON/OFF capacity and use the Ecotech controller for any other control?

Thank you again!

 

[ca1ore]

A sump-in-stand will yield much different answers than sump-in-basement. While I don't doubt that the Abyzz is a superb pump, $2,500 just seems crazy money to me for a set-it-and-forget it return pump. Unless you are hell bent on a controllable pump, largely pointless in my view; I'd go with dual fluval SP6 assuming sump-in-stand. Plumb them independently and avoid the check valves and you'll get something like 5,000 silent gallons per hour. If you decide to go Vectra L1, also get the reeflink.

 

[Jeff D.]

A sump-in-stand will yield much different answers than sump-in-basement. While I don't doubt that the Abyzz is a superb pump, $2,500 just seems crazy money to me for a set-it-and-forget it return pump. Unless you are hell bent on a controllable pump, largely pointless in my view; I'd go with dual fluval SP6 assuming sump-in-stand. Plumb them independently and avoid the check valves and you'll get something like 5,000 silent gallons per hour. If you decide to go Vectra L1, also get the reeflink.

Thank you kindly. I just answered the head pressure questions a second before your last post. Should have included that earlier. Sorry.

Sump in stand. Wish I could put it in another room, but nope, everything will be right under the DT, minimal head pressure.

 

[alton]

You did not mention how many return lines back into your aquarium? If multiple I would suggest three Pan world 50 PXX at 240 watts total for 3300 GPH ($495), turning one off at night to quiet the overflow. When I had my 300DD I had a 50 PXX and a 40 PX, turning the 40 PXX off at night creating a very quiet aquarium. Two L1 pumps from ecotech would not be bad either. I believe they have the bugs worked out? I love my M1 on my 180. Too many choices! One thing you have to check out is many pumps advertise GPH at 0 lift. When you add 5' and a few turns they drop down 50%.

Oh yea and welcome to R2R

 

[Jeff D.]

You did not mention how many return lines back into your aquarium? If multiple I would suggest three Pan world 50 PXX at 240 watts total for 3300 GPH ($495), turning one off at night to quiet the overflow. When I had my 300DD I had a 50 PXX and a 40 PX, turning the 40 PXX off at night creating a very quiet aquarium. Two L1 pumps from ecotech would not be bad either. I believe they have the bugs worked out? I love my M1 on my 180. Too many choices! One thing you have to check out is many pumps advertise GPH at 0 lift. When you add 5' and a few turns they drop down 50%.

Oh yea and welcome to R2R

Thanks a bunch!

4 returns back to the DT. Not sure if that changes your answer, but that is what it has.

 

[jda]

As a large tank owner, I strongly suggest that you find a community or fellow reefers that also have large tanks. People mean well who have smaller tanks (yes 24os and 300g are small compared to this), but their stuff does not always scale even though they mean no harm. There is a forum below for larger tanks that you can browse - these people have solved a lot of the same problems as you and most of them have changed equipment from the beginning to where they are now, so read the threads the whole way through.

With big tank, lights with reflectors, closed loops and AC pump all can be your friend. Heating is a huge expense.

I would look AmpMaster - they are lower wattage for the size, move a ton of water and can last a decade if you pay for the good seals. Sequence/ReeFlo are popular, but buy some extra seals if you get one of these since they rarely last longer than a few years. Internal pumps like Fluval or Laguna are good, but they still do not move water like an AmpMaster. I do have AmpMasters, Fluval and Laguna running for decade+ whereas I have never had a Sequecnce/ReeFlo go for more than two years without catching fire (yes), losing a motor or a seal. Every DC pump except for the Abyzz is a toy compared to most of these, both in flow and longevity - "controlling" them is mostly a useless feature to me (Red Dragon pumps are great too, but not powerful enough, IMO).

 

[lapin]

I would look AmpMaster - they are lower wattage for the size, move a ton of water and can last a decade if you pay for the good seals. Sequence/ReeFlo are popular, but buy some extra seals if you get one of these since they rarely last longer than a few years. Internal pumps like Fluval or Laguna are good, but they still do not move water like an AmpMaster.

How quiet are these pumps like compared to a reeflo?
I need a back up for my system.
Do they ever go on sale?

 

[jda]

I don't know about noise. I have a basement sump and room and noise is no issue for me. However, I never noticed the noise of the ReeFlo until the bearings started to go bad.

 

[Jeff D.]

As a large tank owner, I strongly suggest that you find a community or fellow reefers that also have large tanks. People mean well who have smaller tanks (yes 24os and 300g are small compared to this), but their stuff does not always scale even though they mean no harm. There is a forum below for larger tanks that you can browse - these people have solved a lot of the same problems as you and most of them have changed equipment from the beginning to where they are now, so read the threads the whole way through.

With big tank, lights with reflectors, closed loops and AC pump all can be your friend. Heating is a huge expense.

I would look AmpMaster - they are lower wattage for the size, move a ton of water and can last a decade if you pay for the good seals. Sequence/ReeFlo are popular, but buy some extra seals if you get one of these since they rarely last longer than a few years. Internal pumps like Fluval or Laguna are good, but they still do not move water like an AmpMaster. I do have AmpMasters, Fluval and Laguna running for decade+ whereas I have never had a Sequecnce/ReeFlo go for more than two years without catching fire (yes), losing a motor or a seal. Every DC pump except for the Abyzz is a toy compared to most of these, both in flow and longevity - "controlling" them is mostly a useless feature to me (Red Dragon pumps are great too, but not powerful enough, IMO).

JDA: Thank you for your awesome post! I really do appreciate your insight and advice. I really never looked at the Amp Masters until reading your post. After doing some research, they really do seem to fall in the sweet spot of price, flow, size, etc. You had mentioned having a large tank yourself. Are you running one single large return pump or two? The Amp Master 6250 sounds like it should provide all of the flow I need, however I don't want to discount the advice of all others saying two pumps is the way to go.

Also, the forum for super large tanks your are talking about... is this the "Monster Tanks" section of R2R? Just wanted to make sure I was looking in the right spot.

Thank you again, you really gave me a new insight into a pump I may be purchasing here soon.