650gallon 10ft peninsula flow help

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

Right reefers!

The plan is to have a penisula as a dividing wall in the house. The deal was my gf can do whatever she wants to the house so long as I get my dream tank and kitchen.....I like to cook lol. I've been struggling to find info on flow systems that will push water the length of a 10ft peninsula, also I would ideally like to not put pumps on the viewing panes or drill the bottom of the tank and hide closed loop pipes in the rocks. This leaves me with two other options that I think may work, but I need your help, opinions and expertise because you guys more than likely will have ideas that I havent even considered or notice flaws I wont have noticed.

The basics for this tank are as follows 10ft long x 3ft deep x 2.5ft high. Aquascape will be 3 big islands with mini islands in between. 60% sps 35% lps and 5% softies.

My first plan involves using 6 MP60's 3 on each end of the peninsula. My second plan involves using a closed loop system coming from above the tank with random flow generator nozzles, powered by an abyzz a400 pump.

I've included a couple of pictures just to illustrate what I mean, Hopefully my explanation is'nt as bad as my windows paint diagrams ;Shamefullyembarrased

JoshH · Oct 17, 2019

On a tank that size I'd go with the closed loop and MP60s on the overflow end myself. I have a 5 foot peninsula with a closed loop being set up right now. I think with such a large tank a closed loop is the only way to go but that's me

flagg37 · Oct 17, 2019

I’m planning an 8’ tank right now. I posed the same question and will be trying some gyres. The closed loop option was low on my list of possibilities. First, it introduced possible leak points even if it’s unlikely. Second, the a400 is a great, efficient pump (I have the a200) but the gph is still nowhere near what you can get with a power head.

ca1ore · Oct 17, 2019

Might want to get the mods to move this to the monster tank forum …..

MP60 is a superb pump, but even it will struggle to push notable flow to 10'. I would definitely look at a closed loop. You could also check out the EC63 panta rhei (hydro wizard pumps). They are crazy German expensive, but an engineering marvel.

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

flagg37 said:
I’m planning an 8’ tank right now. I posed the same question and will be trying some gyres. The closed loop option was low on my list of possibilities. First, it introduced possible leak points even if it’s unlikely. Second, the a400 is a great, efficient pump (I have the a200) but the gph is still nowhere near what you can get with a power head.

Feel free to link it into this thread if you've got one going. The leak is something that does have e worried but I feel there might not be another way around it. gyre 350s and mp60s seem to be the only wavemakers I can find that offer the power and dont look so big in the tank to take away from the aesthetics.

Are you thinking of putting a gyre on each end of the peninsula for your tank? do you think you might get dead spots in the tank or would it be enough for the two long sides?

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

ca1ore said:
Might want to get the mods to move this to the monster tank forum …..

MP60 is a superb pump, but even it will struggle to push notable flow to 10'. I would definitely look at a closed loop. You could also check out the EC63 panta rhei (hydro wizard pumps). They are crazy German expensive, but an engineering marvel.

I watched a couple of videos on the EC63's last night and i agree its one beast of a pump... with a price tag thhat matches. It also would have the power i want but the only issue is the size and profile it has inside the tank.... It doesnt look great so if I can find a way that doesnt involve using these I will..... I do have a feeling i probably will just have to suck it up and go for these though

Feet4Fish · Oct 17, 2019

Closed loop would be the way to go. It is what I did as without getting that pricey Panta Rhei or the Abyzz jet engine looking thing you won’t find a powered head to get that far. And in my opinion placing powerheads on a viewing pane of a pansies defeats the purpose. I also employed a return loop up top and described by Anthony Calfo. I have an 8 ft peninsula.

flagg37 · Oct 17, 2019

ReefDemon said:
Feel free to link it into this thread if you've got one going. The leak is something that does have e worried but I feel there might not be another way around it. gyre 350s and mp60s seem to be the only wavemakers I can find that offer the power and dont look so big in the tank to take away from the aesthetics.

Are you thinking of putting a gyre on each end of the peninsula for your tank? do you think you might get dead spots in the tank or would it be enough for the two long sides?

My situation is a little different. It’s between two rooms like yours but the ends are about 1/2 covered by a cabinet that runs around it. I’m running my return plumbing in the side cabinets and plan to have my power heads in those concealed areas too. I’ve attached a pic that shows kind of what I’m talking about. So part of the end is visible and part is not.

For you, I don’t know if it’s a deal breaker sticking a gyre right at the top of the open end of the tank. Since it’s a gyre, you can get it pretty close to the top of the tank. Just a thought.

lifeguard101284 · Oct 17, 2019

my vote would be mp60's on the back of the tank and then you can hide the gyres on the other end of the peninsula at the very top out of view, if the mp60's are low enough it might make a nice circular flow.

Silent · Oct 17, 2019

Ive seen huge tanks that move massive flow using a storage tank above the display tank. They fill it up with a pump from the sump and empty it all at once using flapper valve connected to something that floats. Makes a surge action. Works great and economical for a large tank.

Sarah24! · Oct 17, 2019

Hello,

Some large aquariums use the idea as mentioned above and it forms a realistic tide surge. Some of the tanks I have seen have no wave makers at all. They have a separate tank that builds pressure. So water from the tank flows into a back section to build pressure. Once that is released like said before releases the whole amount. It’s a very clean system and actually really mimics waves coming in and out on the beach etc.

The problem is your over flow only goes down so far before the water levels out. The ones I have seen are massive and have a vacuum pump that sucks the water down into a tank similar to a sump. Then has it fills a check valve or some sensor then turns on and a pump or door release all the water at once. This will cause your tank to drop 2 or 3 inches each time. So I’d make sure you have it set right so the wave action doesn’t go over the edges. The perfect examples have been at the Seattle aquarium and Monterey aquarium. They may be able to better describe how they set this up. From when I spoke to them they said it was very easy. Yet lol I couldn’t see it because the tank was built around it.

But it’s one way to keep power heads and what not out of the tank. I’d love to do something like that if I could make a system work well enough. With the amount of surge flow I’d doubt you would have any dead spots based on your diagrams. I will say both of the samples I saw the floor was always wet. But I’m sure there’s ways to make it work with out that.

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

soffutt said:
Closed loop would be the way to go. It is what I did as without getting that pricey Panta Rhei or the Abyzz jet engine looking thing you won’t find a powered head to get that far. And in my opinion placing powerheads on a viewing pane of a pansies defeats the purpose. I also employed a return loop up top and described by Anthony Calfo. I have an 8 ft peninsula.

I agree it would defeat the pint of the peninsula for me. Do you have a link to what you've done so I can read through it? I havent heard of Anthony Calfo but I'll give it a google, thanks for the info!

ocean gems · Oct 17, 2019

3 gyre with two mp40 i have a 10 footer as well with 4 3/4 seaswirls with 1hp banshea pumps

ca1ore · Oct 17, 2019

Surge devices like the Carlson or Borneman do work but they are messy. No way to really eliminate bubbles so you get salt creep everywhere. Ask me how I know LOL. I'm not a fan of drilling the bottoms of tanks, but you could extend closed loop outlets in each rock mound by running pipes under the sand (if you plan to have sand). I've done it and it works pretty well. T'were my tank, I'd probably go with a quartet of MP60 on the overflow end and a series of closed loop outlets to minimized the equipment clutter. Something like an abyzz, or even a few vectras would push a lot of water a long way through closed loop nozzles..

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

flagg37 said:
My situation is a little different. It’s between two rooms like yours but the ends are about 1/2 covered by a cabinet that runs around it. I’m running my return plumbing in the side cabinets and plan to have my power heads in those concealed areas too. I’ve attached a pic that shows kind of what I’m talking about. So part of the end is visible and part is not.

For you, I don’t know if it’s a deal breaker sticking a gyre right at the top of the open end of the tank. Since it’s a gyre, you can get it pretty close to the top of the tank. Just a thought.

2-3 Gyres at the top of each end or as @lifeguard101284 mentioned a mixture of mp60s on the overflow end and a few gyres on the peninsula end could work in creating a circular flow. I'm hoping to find an LFS that has them on diplay so I can see what kind of power they put out.

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

@flagg37 how did you do that plan of your tank setup, I'd like to have a play around with that software and see what I come up with.... it may take me a while though

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

ocean gems said:
3 gyre with two mp40 i have a 10 footer as well with 4 3/4 seaswirls with 1hp banshea pumps

Are the sea swirls in the corners? Are you able to describe how you've got the gyres and mp40s set up if you would'nt mind, just so I can picture how you're able to move the water across the 10ft. Also I can't seem to find the banshea pump you're using, all it comes up with on google is yamaha quadbike parts.

flagg37 · Oct 17, 2019

That was done on SketchUp. It’s free but there is a bit of a learning curve. They do have some pretty good tutorials though.

ReefDemon · Oct 17, 2019

Silent said:
Ive seen huge tanks that move massive flow using a storage tank above the display tank. They fill it up with a pump from the sump and empty it all at once using flapper valve connected to something that floats. Makes a surge action. Works great and economical for a large tank.

Sarah24! said:
Hello,

Some large aquariums use the idea as mentioned above and it forms a realistic tide surge. Some of the tanks I have seen have no wave makers at all. They have a separate tank that builds pressure. So water from the tank flows into a back section to build pressure. Once that is released like said before releases the whole amount. It’s a very clean system and actually really mimics waves coming in and out on the beach etc.

The problem is your over flow only goes down so far before the water levels out. The ones I have seen are massive and have a vacuum pump that sucks the water down into a tank similar to a sump. Then has it fills a check valve or some sensor then turns on and a pump or door release all the water at once. This will cause your tank to drop 2 or 3 inches each time. So I’d make sure you have it set right so the wave action doesn’t go over the edges. The perfect examples have been at the Seattle aquarium and Monterey aquarium. They may be able to better describe how they set this up. From when I spoke to them they said it was very easy. Yet lol I couldn’t see it because the tank was built around it.

But it’s one way to keep power heads and what not out of the tank. I’d love to do something like that if I could make a system work well enough. With the amount of surge flow I’d doubt you would have any dead spots based on your diagrams. I will say both of the samples I saw the floor was always wet. But I’m sure there’s ways to make it work with out that.

I've seen surge tanks in action, a couple at public aquariums and one at a reefers home, they are awesome and I agree that they replicate nature extremely well. However I am not a fan of how they always seem to generate loads of bubbles in the water.... that and I feel like I'd be the idiot that floods my house because I messed it up. So I'll avoid doing this at all costs.... also I dont think I'll have the room to have the surge tank equipment hidden, so I doubt its a realistic option for me.