75 Gallon rebuild and Algae Battle

[patrick.mcdonald617]

Hey guys hopefully this is posted in the right area but my father and I both have tanks and I'm planning on doing a complete overhaul to help him start keeping the corals and fish he has always wanted. He has a basic 75 gallon reef ready tank with stand and sump that we got from a friend of his about a year ago. The pictures show where the tank is now and I'll be posting a few pictures of the old sump and filtration before the new setup gets running. One of the main reasons for this overall is an extreme algae issue that he has been having despite constant water changes and carbon/gfo reactors. I have done a ton of research into spot treating algae with Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) and have used it successfully on my own tank so this thread will also act as a sort of before an after, documenting the results from that spot treatment. Hopefully this will be an interesting journey because builds have always been my favorite part of the hobby, and hopefully this will help with insight into a possibly fix for the algae problems anyone is having with their tanks too! Well after that huge wall of text onto to current pictures!

 

[jsker]

I just started doing 1 ml /10 gal H2O2 this evening to start controlling algae, there is a thread here about dosing H2O2 and I would advisies giving it a read.

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

Well after what seemed like hours I was finally able to pull out the old sump and skimmer which you can clearly see are absolutely filthy despite trying to keep up with maintenance in such a confined space

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

So another battle down I was finally able to get the new skimmer and sump set up underneath the stand although there were some leaking issues with the flexible drain hose (I intend to hard plumb it in a few days anyway), it got tightened up and its smooth sailing from here on out hopefully! I also got a few shots of my candy cane frag that was absolutely covered in algae from the first pictures and after only a day and a half it is pretty much algae free. Same with most of the rocks which I put through my peroxide spot treatment experiment. After seeing these results I am definitely a believer in spot treating this algae but I do understand this isn't a miracle for all algae related problems and I do still need to focus on getting down to the basis of what the problems were in the first place which were lack of good husbandry, a steady water change schedule, and to stop overfeeding!

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

I just started doing 1 ml /10 gal H2O2 this evening to start controlling algae, there is a thread here about dosing H2O2 and I would advisies giving it a read.

That main thread is basically what peaked my interest in diving into peroxide. The only real decision I had to make was whether I wanted to start dosing the tank or just spot treating. I ended up going for the spot treatment method just out of curiosity to see how effective it would actually be, which you can see from the pictures I just posted is working wonders! How has the dosing been going though have you seen any immediate changes?

 

[jsker]

That main thread is basically what peaked my interest in diving into peroxide. The only real decision I had to make was whether I wanted to start dosing the tank or just spot treating. I ended up going for the spot treatment method just out of curiosity to see how effective it would actually be, which you can see from the pictures I just posted is working wonders! How has the dosing been going though have you seen any immediate changes?

I am two day into it, or 4 doses. I am seeing a small amount of the red algae going away. From what I was reading most of the guys running the test really started see results on day 4. Sunday should be the day that I see real results.

 

[jsker]

Like the new sump and skimmer

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

Like the new sump and skimmer

Thanks went full Skimz setup for this one! This is their Kone series skimmer and it literally took me all of 10 minutes to tune in perfectly especially considering I could adjust the water level depth in their sump to!

 

[jd371]

That main thread is basically what peaked my interest in diving into peroxide. The only real decision I had to make was whether I wanted to start dosing the tank or just spot treating. I ended up going for the spot treatment method just out of curiosity to see how effective it would actually be, which you can see from the pictures I just posted is working wonders! How has the dosing been going though have you seen any immediate changes?

I was thinking about dosing but now I don't know....how do you spot treat?

 

[brandon429]

this has all spot treat options shown in pics
http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/

usually people want to do underwater work in large tanks...but any degree that can be done externally, and maybe the area scraped clean externally even before adding peroxide right to the target areas of the rocks, will certainly comply much better. the manual removal takes the algae away, then adding peroxide to the cleaned spot really really reduces that growback potential vs just adding peroxide to the water (which is easier, but not as effective. your max dose is set by your sensitive animals which are being hit as well)

when you work outside the tank, all systems are go. you can hit the targets, never hit the non targets, forcibly remove all that algae, and change nothing about your water parameters other than fully restoring that tank. ill link your thread here to the peroxide thread as you finalize your updates, nice detail you've posted
B

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

this has all spot treat options shown in pics
http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/

usually people want to do underwater work in large tanks...but any degree that can be done externally, and maybe the area scraped clean externally even before adding peroxide right to the target areas of the rocks, will certainly comply much better. the manual removal takes the algae away, then adding peroxide to the cleaned spot really really reduces that growback potential vs just adding peroxide to the water (which is easier, but not as effective. your max dose is set by your sensitive animals which are being hit as well)

when you work outside the tank, all systems are go. you can hit the targets, never hit the non targets, forcibly remove all that algae, and change nothing about your water parameters other than fully restoring that tank. ill link your thread here to the peroxide thread as you finalize your updates, nice detail you've posted
B

Couldn't have said it better myself and thanks again I appreciate it!

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

I was thinking about dosing but now I don't know....how do you spot treat?

Just like brandon429 said I find it to be an easier method of removal than dosing because it will put alot less stress on the animals in my reef while at the same time making it easier for me to actually reach the most problematic areas algae wise allowing for a more thorough removal. As for how I actually go about doing it for the smaller rocks that aren't attached to my main scape I just pull them out of the water and hold them above a 5 gallon bucket to prevent dripping all over my floor, and spray them down with a spray bottle containing pure 3% hydrogen peroxide. I let it sit like that soaked in peroxide for about 2 minutes before placing it back in the tank. I'll see if I can post some more pictures of me actually doing it tonight as I plan on hitting some more of the major rocks. Once I decide to remove the pesky algae at the very low areas of my scape I plan on doing about an 80% drain of the tank just to spray those areas down and replacing the water as soon as its done!

 

[Bad Company]

Install a waterfall algae scrubber:

^This was on my previous tank. NO water changes, no GFO, with tap water top off , no carbon for over a year. Algae scrubber and skimmer. No detectable nitrates and very very little algae in my tank. 20 minutes of maintenance a week! Best thing I ever built for my tank.

This is the tank I just set up. My tap water has 10ppm Nitrate, and the scrubber already has my tank to 0ppm NO3-. CRAZY but I had a screen with algae already on it, otherwise a scrubber takes 4-6 weeks to get going.

 

[jd371]

Thanks guys. It looks like my only choice is to dose, it would be impossible to remove the rocks to treat outside the tank.

Install a waterfall algae scrubber:

I'm looking into this as well, but I'm lacking space under the stand so if I go this route I'd have to figure something out.

 

[brandon429]

those algae scrubbers are fine preventatives too, never a harm in trying those. they are neat because they are of no risk to the tank, they either help w algae or they don't but are easy to try and work well for many. my chem cheat/burn is more of a catchup resetting all surfaces thoroughly, in one weekend, which makes those preventatives not have to work as hard. when you apply an ATS above to a cleaned system vs one that has algae which will also add wait time for kill and removal, those preventatives work well and we just hand kill whatever gets past them if applicable

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

Just a quick update! Checked out the tank this morning before I went into work and all of the places that I had spot treated with the Hydrogen Peroxide are completely devoid of any algae whatsoever. One of my main concerns in doing this was taking things very slow so as not to shock the system so I will be doing some more rockwork tonight. I was also worried about how different corals would be affected by either the spot treatment itself or the residual Hydrogen Peroxide in the water once the rocks were placed back in. I am happy to report however that polyp extension is great and the candy canes (which were directly doused with the treatment) are 100% fine and even look healthier than before when they were suffocated with algae. One more note I wanted to make sure everyone was aware of is that once spot treated the rocks and placed them back into the tank a lot of bubbles were coming out of them, from what I assume to be the peroxide breaking down into oxygen, which is fine. However, only a few minutes after placing the rocks back into the tank both of my anemones (bubble tip and rock) looked terrible. Their tentacles became long and stringy and their bodies began to expand. I obviously got very worried when I saw this but the very next morning they were bigger and happier looking than ever. So if anyone tries to use peroxide as a spot treatment just be aware of the affect it could have on your anemones and take it very slow, because from what I have seen they should be fine!

 

[brandon429]

We made a list of sensitive animals in the peroxide thread off those repeating variables people universally report, it was literally amazing how predictable peroxide turned out to be. Add lysmsta cleaners to the risks... we think those are the weakest animals of all to peroxide.


Searching old chemistry threads late 90' early 2000s like reefcentral etc shows the sages stating the risky and devastating effects that were to be expected from in tank peroxide use

But the application and public feedback was polar opposite. The list of sensitive organisms has about six entrants, out of all the things we keep in reefing!

The sages claimed the filtration bacteria would take the first hit, but now we know they cannot even be measurably affected by gross overdoses 10x the rate of average use. What I love about reef tanks is the turnout from theory vs application, it's often a curve ball

The next phase for your tank is light growback (comes from last post in that thread)

Minor growback of many of the spots, holdfasts were left in place -but- this initial kill you did was perfect. Left in place, these tufts catch and hold detritus to become self feeding independently of how clean the water is kept

You removing the growths stops that self support ability, but growback is from holdfasts and requires predictable action and that can be grazers, installed preventatives now that the tank is clean, or even repeat underwater spot treatments with peroxide or even Kent tech M that do not broadcast into the tank but involve holdfast removal and underwater spot application of the burning agent. This is growback war in prep any growback is no disappointment, it's predicted embraced and expected. Circle of life

the right mix of forced cleaning and nutrient / lighting balances (typically white spectrum work) will stop that growback in time. by all means consider any of the popular prevention methods like ATS Carbon bio beads gfo refugiums et al


True compliance with forced cleaning technique comes from always reefing that way from the start, it won't retro clean a tank ran oppositely in one pass. But the visual turnaround is 100% pleasing, self feeding stops for those target masses, and you begin to tilt the ecosystem into your bidding now. Repeat work doesn't indicate fail, it means we can predict what algae does in the reef tank with total precision.



The detail shown here in your build also shows more deft control in reefing...skip cycling. You accessed this tank to the core, parted it out in order, force cleaned then skip cycled upon setup. That's illegal in nine countries

It's the only way I reef too.

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

We made a list of sensitive animals in the peroxide thread off those repeating variables people universally report, it was literally amazing how predictable peroxide turned out to be. Add lysmsta cleaners to the risks... we think those are the weakest animals of all to peroxide.


Searching old chemistry threads late 90' early 2000s like reefcentral etc shows the sages stating the risky and devastating effects that were to be expected from in tank peroxide use

But the application and public feedback was polar opposite. The list of sensitive organisms has about six entrants, out of all the things we keep in reefing!

The sages claimed the filtration bacteria would take the first hit, but now we know they cannot even be measurably affected by gross overdoses 10x the rate of average use. What I love about reef tanks is the turnout from theory vs application, it's often a curve ball

The next phase for your tank is light growback (comes from last post in that thread)

Minor growback of many of the spots, holdfasts were left in place -but- this initial kill you did was perfect. Left in place, these tufts catch and hold detritus to become self feeding independently of how clean the water is kept

You removing the growths stops that self support ability, but growback is from holdfasts and requires predictable action and that can be grazers, installed preventatives now that the tank is clean, or even repeat underwater spot treatments with peroxide or even Kent tech M that do not broadcast into the tank but involve holdfast removal and underwater spot application of the burning agent. This is growback war in prep any growback is no disappointment, it's predicted embraced and expected. Circle of life

the right mix of forced cleaning and nutrient / lighting balances (typically white spectrum work) will stop that growback in time. by all means consider any of the popular prevention methods like ATS Carbon bio beads gfo refugiums et al


True compliance with forced cleaning technique comes from always reefing that way from the start, it won't retro clean a tank ran oppositely in one pass. But the visual turnaround is 100% pleasing, self feeding stops for those target masses, and you begin to tilt the ecosystem into your bidding now. Repeat work doesn't indicate fail, it means we can predict what algae does in the reef tank with total precision.



The detail shown here in your build also shows more deft control in reefing...skip cycling. You accessed this tank to the core, parted it out in order, force cleaned then skip cycled upon setup. That's illegal in nine countries

It's the only way I reef too.

Hahah glad someone shares in my way of thinking and that's why I love this site just tons and tons of information everyone can use not only for themselves but to help anyone else along the way too! I'm sitting in work now just counting down the minutes until I can head back home and do more work on the reef!

 

[patrick.mcdonald617]

Alright so finally got a Sunday off after about 3 weeks of straight work! Woke up and decided to go all in on the rest of the rock work with the Hydrogen Peroxide. I took my two brute containers and siphoned about 80% of the water out of the tank which either gave me a direct surface to spray on or made it easier to pick some of the rock work out of the water now that it was shallow to give a full spraying. I took some pictures of in between the process as I was spraying the rocks and will try to take some update pictures of the rocks tomorrow once the peroxide has had some time to do its thing. As for an update on the new sump and protein skimmer they are doing amazing. The sump itself is beautifully designed and keeps water constantly moving throughout each chamber there are little to no dead spots where debris can collect which makes cleanup a breeze. After a quick blast with a turkey baster here or there and its all gone (helps that the sump is white to make things easier to see). The protein skimmer is doing incredible too and pulling out tons of nasty gunk from the water column. I have a Vertex Omega 130 on my 60 gallon cube tank and I think this skimz skimmer is making a better foam head now than the omega! Well anyway here are the pictures and I'll be sure to update as soon as I can with a full tank shot after treatment

 

[brandon429]

that is seriously nice. Look at the cleanliness behind and in front, the front access for cleaning. No fish can die and be inaccessible. Touch ups can be accessed in or out of tank, you have predictably won the battle wow man that was thorough. The documentation you linked here will help big tankers see a rare detailed parted, cleaning, direct algae attack (not drawn out mos water attack) in time others will map out their approaches based on yours, and the outcome. Skip cycles are handy for deep cleanings, forced resets, and are ideal compared to starting over

Linked your thread here
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/page-65

Is an old thread of tank work arrangements.

Forced compliant tanks cannot be algae invaded, it's not possible, and the end result is a new reef.