75 gallon stocking list. Thoughts?

[Grumblez]

As I was researching Chromis I heard that they really want to eat like 5-8 times a day like an anthias to keep the group happy; no clue if that has merit to being successful with them but it would be odd if they are impossible to keep in groups yet every description of them says “does well in groups”. I doubt many chromis owners are feeding that often.

The Blue Reef Chromis I included in my list was the only good looking chromis (subjective) that was listed as peaceful and also swims at the top of the column and liveaquaria description says they help encourage timid fish to come out (maybe the timid fish, such as my firefish, peek out and see them swimming and somehow know it is safe to come out). I was tempted to get a few of these, but at $40 bucks a pop and their murdering each other reputation, I figured 1 was the best option.

Sure, feeding more can help but it just really seems that in reality outside of large tanks almost all fish are gonna be aggressive with conspecifics, anthias seem to be the most likely to get along. Bangaii Cardinals are listed as a group/schooling fish but in any standard size tank once they reach adulthood will almost always kill each other off down to 1 breeding pair. I have 3 rather uncommonly kept Seale Cardinals in my reefer 250, that Biota swears up and down are peaceful schooling fish but the biggest still hasn't stopped bullying the others 6 months in to having them. They only get along when its feeding time and when I'm cleaning the tank and they are scared.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/blue-reef-chromis.433862/page-2
Hundreds of threads like this.

 

[TeeJay87]

Sure, feeding more can help but it just really seems that in reality outside of large tanks almost all fish are gonna be aggressive with conspecifics, anthias seem to be the most likely to get along. Bangaii Cardinals are listed as a group/schooling fish but in any standard size tank once they reach adulthood will almost always kill each other off down to 1 breeding pair. I have 3 rather uncommonly kept Seale Cardinals in my reefer 250, that Biota swears up and down are peaceful schooling fish but the biggest still hasn't stopped bullying the others 6 months in to having them. They only get along when its feeding time and when I'm cleaning the tank and they are scared.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/blue-reef-chromis.433862/page-2
Hundreds of threads like this.

I’m just hypothesizing here (i.e. not sayin you are wrong), but I’m wondering if chromis and some of these other small schooling fish really prefer to constantly eat plankton, rotifers, and copepods. And larger tanks have larger populations of these tiny foods due to the larger tank size, and that means less competition for the foods per gallon of tank water. It’s not like these fish need more room to stretch out bc when you see them being successful in larger tanks, there are taking up less space as they are schooling together.

So if there is some way to have large and constant amounts of these food sources in smaller tanks (possibly via refugiums and dosing), I wonder if we’d see more success in smaller tanks.

 

[Grumblez]

I’m just hypothesizing here (i.e. not sayin you are wrong), but I’m wondering if chromis and some of these other small schooling fish really prefer to constantly eat plankton, rotifers, and copepods. And larger tanks have larger populations of these tiny foods due to the larger tank size, and that means less competition for the foods per gallon of tank water. It’s not like these fish need more room to stretch out bc when you see them being successful in larger tanks, there are taking up less space as they are schooling together.

So if there is some way to have large and constant amounts of these food sources in smaller tanks (possibly via refugiums and dosing), I wonder if we’d see more success in smaller tanks.

Maybe, there's definitely a number of factors. It's also very possible regardless off the amount of available resources a smaller tank/territory will create the impression of scarcity.

 

[old_lady_4am]

Any red flags on stock list plan below (listed in rough order of adding them)? Enough hiding spots? Too many fish? If so, after the 4 anthias, the only fish I’m really attached to is the white tail bristletooth tang.

75gal Stock List:
5 firefish (already in tank)
2 purple firefish (already in tank)
1 blenny - tailspot or bicolor
4 anthias - group of peaceful & small (perhaps princess, purple queen, evansi, dispar, Bartlett’s)
1 blue reef chromis - to add a splash of blue from a peaceful fish
1 pufferfish - Valentini/Toby as small at 4 inch max and better chance at being reef safe
1 wrasse - something peaceful and reef safe
1 dwarf angel - probably not the flame
1 white tail bristletooth tang
1 yellow tang
2 Green Mandarin pair
1 biota captive bred marine betta - not sure whether I want to add and not sure in which order

I realize now that the school of firefish doesn’t work out so well after a week as two red firefish have paired up and the female in the pair goes after the other red firefish. Thankfully I can spook her into leaving them alone and everyone is out and eating 80%+ of the day, but not a long term solution. I’m hopeful that really dialing in on making sure there is a surplus of food for the firefish & adding other fish to the tank will eliminate the aggressive behavior.

Picture of tank this morning Jan 24, 2022:

Tank Specs:
75 gallon tank
Fluval 407 Canister Filter
HOB refugium (to be added for phytoplankton)
HOB refugium 2 (to be added for copepods)
HOB skimmer (will add if needed)

Current Fish:
5 firefish
2 purple firefish

Current Other:
100 lbs wet live rock from the gulf
75 lbs wet live sand from the gulf
Serpent Starfish
Sea Cucumber
Peppermint Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
~5 Blue Porcelain Crabs
~30 Astrea Snails
~35 Hermit Crabs
Many feather dusters, brittle starfish, sponges, a few corals

I thought my 8 fairly small fish were too many in my 75g lol.

 

[i cant think]

Any red flags on stock list plan below (listed in rough order of adding them)? Enough hiding spots? Too many fish? If so, after the 4 anthias, the only fish I’m really attached to is the white tail bristletooth tang.

75gal Stock List:
5 firefish (already in tank)
2 purple firefish (already in tank)
1 blenny - tailspot or bicolor
4 anthias - group of peaceful & small (perhaps princess, purple queen, evansi, dispar, Bartlett’s)
1 blue reef chromis - to add a splash of blue from a peaceful fish
1 pufferfish - Valentini/Toby as small at 4 inch max and better chance at being reef safe
1 wrasse - something peaceful and reef safe
1 dwarf angel - probably not the flame
1 white tail bristletooth tang
1 yellow tang
2 Green Mandarin pair
1 biota captive bred marine betta - not sure whether I want to add and not sure in which order

I realize now that the school of firefish doesn’t work out so well after a week as two red firefish have paired up and the female in the pair goes after the other red firefish. Thankfully I can spook her into leaving them alone and everyone is out and eating 80%+ of the day, but not a long term solution. I’m hopeful that really dialing in on making sure there is a surplus of food for the firefish & adding other fish to the tank will eliminate the aggressive behavior.

Picture of tank this morning Jan 24, 2022:

Tank Specs:
75 gallon tank
Fluval 407 Canister Filter
HOB refugium (to be added for phytoplankton)
HOB refugium 2 (to be added for copepods)
HOB skimmer (will add if needed)

Current Fish:
5 firefish
2 purple firefish

Current Other:
100 lbs wet live rock from the gulf
75 lbs wet live sand from the gulf
Serpent Starfish
Sea Cucumber
Peppermint Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
~5 Blue Porcelain Crabs
~30 Astrea Snails
~35 Hermit Crabs
Many feather dusters, brittle starfish, sponges, a few corals

Got any updates on what you did?
I would remove the yellow from the list as it will just get too crowded and 2 tangs is really pushing it in that tank honestly.

 

[TeeJay87]

Got any updates on what you did?
I would remove the yellow from the list as it will just get too crowded and 2 tangs is really pushing it in that tank honestly.

Here’s where I’m at (in the order of adding them):
3 firefish - lost 1 very early that was never doing well from day 1, and recently lost 1 to jumping. I would not recommend more than 1 unless paired.
1 purple firefish - lost 1 pretty early; they were both males, so pairing up wasn’t going to happen
1 purple queen anthias - Awesome fish and current boss of the tank
1 sunset anthias
1 princess anthias - the anthias all get along surprisingly well; the fact that they are different colors/types has possibly helped.
1 regal angelfish - tiny captive-bred that was added 2.5 weeks ago; can tell that it will likely be territorial as it welcomed the next two fish with a dominating maneuver of aiming his false eyespot near their face and flapping his tail fin. Funny to see as the regal is 1/4 their size. No aggression beyond that and everyone gets along.
1 lawnmower blenny - added a few days ago. Awesome personality; perches and swims around the tank most of the time.
1 foxface rabbit fish - small at ~3 inches and still a bit timid. Him and the blenny are here to help with the algae and wish I would have added herbivores first to keep algae at bay.

2 urchins (pincushion and tuxedo) added about a month ago
1 Aquamaxx HoB ConeS skimmer rated for 90-150 gallon added ~ last November

Lost my Astrea snails
Lost all but probably 5 of my hermit crabs
Lost my blue porcelain crabs (these were hitchhikers on the live rock. I observed the serpent star in the early stages of capturing the last one, and I suspect he may have gotten all of them)
Lost my sea cucumber

Welcomed baby #3 in September of last year (3 kids under 5), and so water changes grinded to a near halt around that time, clean up crew dwindled, left phosphate pads in my filter since day 1 that I assume began leaching phosphate, and GHA got out of control. Most of the recent fish additions are to assist me in my battle with algae.

Future fish?
1 Aiptasia eating filefish (recently had Aiptasia popping up)
1 Tang - not sure what, but I’ve read lawnmower blennies and bristletooths often don’t get along likely bc they are both algae scrapers. So I’ve mostly thrown out the idea of the white-tail tang even though I love that fish.
I still like the idea of a dwarf angel and a mandarin pair, but probably not doing a wrasse or the marine betta.

Here’s a pic of the current tank a few minutes ago (the lawnmower is perched on the top of the left side rock structure):

 

[i cant think]

Here’s where I’m at (in the order of adding them):
3 firefish - lost 1 very early that was never doing well from day 1, and recently lost 1 to jumping. I would not recommend more than 1 unless paired.
1 purple firefish - lost 1 pretty early; they were both males, so pairing up wasn’t going to happen
1 purple queen anthias - Awesome fish and current boss of the tank
1 sunset anthias
1 princess anthias - the anthias all get along surprisingly well; the fact that they are different colors/types has possibly helped.
1 regal angelfish - tiny captive-bred that was added 2.5 weeks ago; can tell that it will likely be territorial as it welcomed the next two fish with a dominating maneuver of aiming his false eyespot near their face and flapping his tail fin. Funny to see as the regal is 1/4 their size. No aggression beyond that and everyone gets along.
1 lawnmower blenny - added a few days ago. Awesome personality; perches and swims around the tank most of the time.
1 foxface rabbit fish - small at ~3 inches and still a bit timid. Him and the blenny are here to help with the algae and wish I would have added herbivores first to keep algae at bay.

2 urchins (pincushion and tuxedo) added about a month ago
1 Aquamaxx HoB ConeS skimmer rated for 90-150 gallon added ~ last November

Lost my Astrea snails
Lost all but probably 5 of my hermit crabs
Lost my blue porcelain crabs (these were hitchhikers on the live rock. I observed the serpent star in the early stages of capturing the last one, and I suspect he may have gotten all of them)
Lost my sea cucumber

Welcomed baby #3 in September of last year (3 kids under 5), and so water changes grinded to a near halt around that time, clean up crew dwindled, left phosphate pads in my filter since day 1 that I assume began leaching phosphate, and GHA got out of control. Most of the recent fish additions are to assist me in my battle with algae.

Future fish?
1 Aiptasia eating filefish (recently had Aiptasia popping up)
1 Tang - not sure what, but I’ve read lawnmower blennies and bristletooths often don’t get along likely bc they are both algae scrapers. So I’ve mostly thrown out the idea of the white-tail tang even though I love that fish.
I still like the idea of a dwarf angel and a mandarin pair, but probably not doing a wrasse or the marine betta.

Here’s a pic of the current tank a few minutes ago (the lawnmower is perched on the top of the left side rock structure):

I would personally leave your stocking at that as the foxface will get rather large and rather fast. Your regal will take longer to age however again these are a medium sized fish. The tank looks beautiful and one thing I do to battle algae is… Coral! Corals have a symbiotic relationship with zooxanthellae and that zooxanthellae is a type of micro algae which with time can outcompete other algae for foods.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

I hear everyone saying this is way to many fish and some will lean that way, but BRStv Beginners is recommending 13 fish (5 are green chromis) for a 40 gallon tank. So 19 fish (7 of which are firefish and taking out the yellow tang and one or two of the marine betta / wrasse / Toby puffer / dwarf angel) in a 75 gallon doesn’t seem that off to me.

I will add slowly and monitor aggressiveness/stress, feed correctly, add more engineered hiding spots with Marco rock, etc., but I’m a little surprised at the initial response that this is so far off.

Not saying this is the be all end all of information, but go to 8 minute mark for the 40 gallon stock list recommendation from BRStv Beginners:

I'd only do 1 tang, but I'd have no issue with the rest of the stock list, so long as you can keep your parameters in check. My 75 gallon is stocked much heavier than that, and thrives. All the fish are out and about, everyone eats well, and the corals are growing. Just have to have strong filtration and be willing to do water changes if necessary.

Feel free to check out my build thread if you'd like!

 

[TeeJay87]

The tank looks beautiful

You are too kind sir. Seeing a tank full of GHA and cyano and you say this .

 

[i cant think]

You are too kind sir. Seeing a tank full of GHA and cyano and you say this .

I just think of Cyano and GHA as part of the cycle and the true way a natural reef forms is first the algae comes and as corals grow they start to outcompete the algae for food.

I’ve had a bad track record with Cyano though and I know how painful it is to beat if your get the strain I continue to get.

 

[GB1985]

I'm also and understocked is better than over guy. I have 8 fish in a 90g with a yellow tang. Ever with just 8 there are small aggression issues I see. I don't want to add more and it end up being a stressed life for them.

More fish usually ends in less aggression. But obviously you have to find the balance.