80ppm Nitrates during cycling

[WillowDemetriou]

Set up the fish tank on Saturday, and added a bottle of Dr Tim's bacteria. I have live sand a dry Marco rock.
On Wednesday I bought a red sea mature kit and follow day 2 instructions and added the Bacto-start, nitro-bac and no3po4x.
The next day I tested my levels and my ammonia was around 2ppm, my nitrites were around 0.5 but my nitrates were all the way up to 80ppm.
I use RODI water from my LFS and tested it straight and the nitrates are zero.

My tank has gone slightly hazy looking (I am thinking bacterial bloom after I added the ammonia source)

What might be causing this and what should I do? Should I continue the red sea mature kit? Should I do a water change or wait it out?

 

[flyingscampi]

Nitrite can affect Nitrate measurement.

Don't worry about nitrates until cycling is finished (ammonia and nitrite = 0, 24 hours after adding ammonium chloride.)

Check my build thread, I had off-the-scale nitrates after cycling, a 50% water change bought that down to 35 ppm, then it's been dwindling ever since without changing water or having a skimmer.

 

[WillowDemetriou]

Nitrite can affect Nitrate measurement.

Don't worry about nitrates until cycling is finished (ammonia and nitrite = 0, 24 hours after adding ammonium chloride.)

Check my build thread, I had off-the-scale nitrates after cycling, a 50% water change bought that down to 35 ppm, then it's been dwindling ever since without changing water or having a skimmer.

Okay, so I'll wait it out and see how it goes. Thanks! Anything for the cloudyness? Is that just likely bacterial bloom?

 

[Dan_P]

Set up the fish tank on Saturday, and added a bottle of Dr Tim's bacteria. I have live sand a dry Marco rock.
On Wednesday I bought a red sea mature kit and follow day 2 instructions and added the Bacto-start, nitro-bac and no3po4x.
The next day I tested my levels and my ammonia was around 2ppm, my nitrites were around 0.5 but my nitrates were all the way up to 80ppm.
I use RODI water from my LFS and tested it straight and the nitrates are zero.

My tank has gone slightly hazy looking (I am thinking bacterial bloom after I added the ammonia source)

What might be causing this and what should I do? Should I continue the red sea mature kit? Should I do a water change or wait it out?

You have added quite a bit of bacteria and an organic carbon source. Stop adding bacteria and NOPOX.

The high nitrate is probably the interference of nitrite with the nitrate test. Don’t bother measuring nitrate as long as nitrite is present.

2 ppm ammonia is quite high. Dr. Tim’s is known for slow starts. If the ammonia has not budged soon, consider giving up on Dr. Tim’s and switch to BioSpira or Turbo Start. Bacteria products can be damaged by extremes in temperature. Maybe the Dr. Tim’s froze. Is it chilly by you?

 

[brandon429]

how to convert your setup into a testless cycle guaranteed to carry fish on an exact date vs arbitrary guess at test tube colors and waiting potentially a month, or two, open-ended:

formula=

take a large pinch of fish food any type, grind it in the palm into powder and add to the mix.

wait until Feb 20th, do a large water change to export this wastewater created by using stuff beyond the fish food and the bottle bac, and this system will carry any bioload you put into it and testing will not factor, and it can't fail.

you might try and verify with test kits, but that won't apply. if you were verifying ammonia with a calibrated seneye, that would apply and be valid

what will apply is that any fish you add will live, the actual ability that you want will be in place if you have a stack of common reef rocks stewing right now.

there's no way you'll buy or do anything other than fish food to this bac stew you've created if you use time-delayed cycling, and Feb 20th is the guaranteed ready date. = updated cycling science, to use known submersion time mapping to state your cycle date before its done.

it's actually done before then, if you had a seneye its likely already done, but since only non digital test kits are available, that Feb 20th will work as a testless/nothing left to buy option.

I could post a link right now that shows you 40 fully running reef tanks all stating 2 ppm ammonia, none of them had 2 ppm ammonia. the cure for that endless impact of non digital testing is a simple time-delayed cycle and Feb 20th is the close date here.

how did I arrive at Feb 20th: the sum total of all cycling chart's ammonia control line + the sum total of all seneye logs uploaded to reef tank forums.

 

[WillowDemetriou]

You have added quite a bit of bacteria and an organic carbon source. Stop adding bacteria and NOPOX.

The high nitrate is probably the interference of nitrite with the nitrate test. Don’t bother measuring nitrate as long as nitrite is present.

2 ppm ammonia is quite high. Dr. Tim’s is known for slow starts. If the ammonia has not budged soon, consider giving up on Dr. Tim’s and switch to BioSpira or Turbo Start. Bacteria products can be damaged by extremes in temperature. Maybe the Dr. Tim’s froze. Is it chilly by you?

Okay, I'll do this and measure ammonia and nitrites. Still keep adding the ammonia source when the ammonia level drops?

Also, what should I do about the cloudyness? Is this because of bacterial bloom?

 

[flyingscampi]

Nitrite can affect Nitrate measurement.

Don't worry about nitrates until cycling is finished (ammonia and nitrite = 0, 24 hours after adding ammonium chloride.)

Check my build thread, I had off-the-scale nitrates after cycling, a 50% water change bought that down to 35 ppm, then it's been dwindling ever since without changing water or having a skimmer.

The cloudiness is probably the no3po4x. You will only need carbon dosing once the tank has things in it and you have high nitrates. I've started two tanks and I've had to add nitrates after the first couple of weeks.

 

[brandon429]

*we could get your tank ready to carry ten fish + corals on that date, reef convention entrants use similar planning so that rows of display tanks to sell you stuff aren't half packing home feeling they've not cycled by the specific start date of aquashella or reefstock etc.

buyers do open ended waits

sellers do timed cycle waits that never fail.

you will never, ever see reef convention sellers using a method that wouldn't get their tank ready to carry fifty grand in sellable stock by Feb 20th, but you'll see buyers doing that online for twenty years

you are assuming the buyer's mode, with vigor

that could all change...

sellers would never ever ever base their business on non digital test kits, and they'd never ever set up a fifty thousand dollar tank full of bounce mushrooms, darth maul zoas or whichever ones are $150 a polyp, plus all their demo fish if that system wasn't fully cycled. only buyers carry eternal doubt about cycle status, sellers command every cycle into compliance by Feb 20th, the start date of our imaginary reef tank convention.

 

[Cthulukelele]

The cloudiness is probably the no3po4x. You will only need carbon dosing once the tank has things in it and you have high nitrates. I've started two tanks and I've had to add nitrates after the first couple of weeks.

Carbon dosing an empty tank is a bad one imo

 

[flyingscampi]

Carbon dosing an empty tank is a bad one imo

I've never used the Red Sea starter kit, does it recommend dosing NO3PO4X when cycling?

 

[WillowDemetriou]

I've never used the Red Sea starter kit, does it recommend dosing NO3PO4X when cycling?

Yes, it tells you to add no3po4x on day 2 after setting up your tank

 

[gbroadbridge]

Set up the fish tank on Saturday, and added a bottle of Dr Tim's bacteria. I have live sand a dry Marco rock.
On Wednesday I bought a red sea mature kit and follow day 2 instructions and added the Bacto-start, nitro-bac and no3po4x.
The next day I tested my levels and my ammonia was around 2ppm, my nitrites were around 0.5 but my nitrates were all the way up to 80ppm.
I use RODI water from my LFS and tested it straight and the nitrates are zero.

My tank has gone slightly hazy looking (I am thinking bacterial bloom after I added the ammonia source)

What might be causing this and what should I do? Should I continue the red sea mature kit? Should I do a water change or wait it out?

The Red Sea Mature kit instructions assume that you are starting with real live rock.

Do not use the the NoPox with dead rock as I will guarantee you will get off to a bad start with Dino's.

Stop adding any other bacteria as they will likely compete with each other causing a bloom.

Finally slow down, the tank will cycle in 30 days, no need to waste test kits. Once a week test is fine if you want to watch, but extra testing does not make things happen faster.

Use the cycling time to do all the research you can, and start planning how you are going to obtain disease free inhabitants..

 

[Schulks]

@brandon429 Don't sellers just bring really well cycled live rock for their sumps so they have all the filter bacteria they need there?

Is the seneye the most accurate way to track ammonia for a hobbyist? I definitely understand how unreliable ammonia test kits can be. It is a struggle. I just cycle for about a month each time .

 

[brandon429]

at aquashella 2018 when I was hanging out with Dr. Reef, we both inspected and remarked upon live rock transfers and the fritz demo carrying 20 clowns the entire convention in a rockless 20 gallon instant reef, carried only by their bacteria during the convention. being able to support a whirling mass of clownfish in a hyperconcentrated environment for days on end and causing that condition on an exact start date is covering both ends of the spectrum.


additionally, here's a completely dry rock dry sand system carrying a full reef on day one, that's a planned start date, and being tracked out one year:

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

that means we can plan any system to begin by an exact start date, live or dry. Ike used his bioload as the ammonia source vs cramming in all that extra support stuff, that's what buyers are trained to do. sellers would never do that.

 

[brandon429]

**seneye is needed to make proofs in cycling to skeptics, I'll never need one to cycle my own tank or run huge cycling threads where bottle bac is used to begin fish carry on an exact date. unless you want to get into the game of cycle proofing, don't waste cash on a seneye. there are updated cycling science means that stop any wait of a month, thats old cycling science.

 

[Dan_P]

Okay, I'll do this and measure ammonia and nitrites. Still keep adding the ammonia source when the ammonia level drops?

Also, what should I do about the cloudyness? Is this because of bacterial bloom?

No, stop adding ammonia. Once the bacteria consume the first dose, you are done. There is no need to keep convincing yourself that there are ammonia consuming bacteria in your aquarium.

Forget about the cloudiness for now. What is done is done. If want, you can do a water change when the ammonia is consumed.

 

[WillowDemetriou]

No, stop adding ammonia. Once the bacteria consume the first dose, you are done. There is no need to keep convincing yourself that there are ammonia consuming bacteria in your aquarium.

Forget about the cloudiness for now. What is done is done. If want, you can do a water change when the ammonia is consumed.

Will the cloudiness clear up on its own?

 

[gbroadbridge]

Will the cloudiness clear up on its own?

Yes it will, but may take a while. Just keep following the kit instructions, but skip the NoPox dosing.

The NoPox will be useful later for Nitrate control when you have the tank stable with anaimals so it won't be wasted.

 

[Dan_P]

Will the cloudiness clear up on its own?

No way to tell. It might clear up in time.