A certain "look" and how do I get it?

[Mark75]

I am needing to upgrade my several years old Hydra 52 which has me researching lights and thinking about tanks I have seen and what I want in a light.

This may be difficult for me to explain so bear with me! I am looking for a light that makes my tank look dark but everything in it bright, not glowing but bright. I know, that doesn't make any sense so maybe I can explain describing what I don't like about my Hydra 52.

With my Hydra 52 if I run my blues high the tank water looks like it has blue dye in it but if I increase my whites the tank looks like an over exposed picture.

I wish I had pictures to show what I am talking about. I am looking for natural rich colors in 12k/14k spectrum that does not have that ghostly overexposed look.

I hope someone knows what I am talking about and post some pictures.

 

[jda]

Raise your lights up 6 or 8 more inches and run all channels on 100% and see if that it close to what you are wanting? The way that you are describing this is why some people will never leave Metal Halide since they do just that and no LED can mimic that look yet... however, some of the tanks that I have seen with all channels on 100% get the closest.

 

[Mark75]

Raising the lights will not help, all channels are at 100% other than white which is at 40%.

If i raise the whites more it gets that over-exposed look.

 

[jda]

Go and find therman's threads. See if that is close to the look that you want.

The issue with just raising the whites is that it illuminates what you have now in a different way. The colors can/will change with more white, but it takes time for the colors to render in the corals (like a few months). Even though this might work, it is not an immediate thing.

Can you interview the people whose tanks you have seen that have this look? If in person, then perfect. If online, then just don't ever know what the photos are showing.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

I am needing to upgrade my several years old Hydra 52 which has me researching lights and thinking about tanks I have seen and what I want in a light.

This may be difficult for me to explain so bear with me! I am looking for a light that makes my tank look dark but everything in it bright, not glowing but bright. I know, that doesn't make any sense so maybe I can explain describing what I don't like about my Hydra 52.

With my Hydra 52 if I run my blues high the tank water looks like it has blue dye in it but if I increase my whites the tank looks like an over exposed picture.

I wish I had pictures to show what I am talking about. I am looking for natural rich colors in 12k/14k spectrum that does not have that ghostly overexposed look.

I hope someone knows what I am talking about and post some pictures.

You're not getting that look with Radions or AI's. Look at supplementing with Orphek bars or Reefbrites; what you are describing is the black light look. Everything dark but with glowing fluorescent corals...

I don't know what it is about those blue "bar" lights but they have a MUCH different look than typical grow LED lights such as the radion G4/G5 and Hydra lights. When you crank the blues up on them they just wash the tank out with blue light looking like you have windex instead of water.

I have a lighting stage in my tank when I turn off the T5, turn off the radions and just have a 2 single blue orphek bars beaming light into the tank. It makes the tank look deep as the blue light just seems to hit the corals and everything is "black" but the corals have a pop where you can see the corals from 500ft away. It's just amazing!

I find that T5 and typical LED grow lights just don't have the pop; it took me seeing reefbrites and orphek bars to see what "pop" really was and now everything else just looks dull and washed out to me. My radions are so boring and my T5 are even worse....yuck! I have those growing corals for me while i'm at work.

 

[oreo54]

I am needing to upgrade my several years old Hydra 52 which has me researching lights and thinking about tanks I have seen and what I want in a light.

This may be difficult for me to explain so bear with me! I am looking for a light that makes my tank look dark but everything in it bright, not glowing but bright. I know, that doesn't make any sense so maybe I can explain describing what I don't like about my Hydra 52.

With my Hydra 52 if I run my blues high the tank water looks like it has blue dye in it but if I increase my whites the tank looks like an over exposed picture.

I wish I had pictures to show what I am talking about. I am looking for natural rich colors in 12k/14k spectrum that does not have that ghostly overexposed look.

I hope someone knows what I am talking about and post some pictures.

There are 1000's of tank images. Doesn't matter if they are "real" or not.
Pick one and post.
Yea monitors differ but probably can convey what you want.

With the Hydras.. try this experiment..
Turn the red and green channel on full.. Add "blues" slowly starting w/ the lowest wavelengths.
See how close you get and if it's too dull start to add whites..
It's the green/yellow hump that makes it difficult to achieve some looks..

Obviously the Hydra won't be able to max out the blues or be useable but the point is to see if you can "fake" white enough without glaring the tank w/ the white diodes.

If you find something you like it will give you an idea of what to look for in an LED..
MH's have a green and red spike and add blue phosphors..

ASSUMING you are reallty referring to a MH "look"

 

[oreo54]

Upon further review..
One of the reasons to rethink this was th fact that my first post w/ R=G was off base.
Came to the conclusion that G:R should be like 2:1 and whites added sooo thought I'd start over
and also use the correct diodes.

May look like junk, may be something close to what you asked for..

Only you can decide what it looks like in real life.

I did keep the R:G ratio as 1:1 but feel free to shift it to 2 green (100%) 1 red (50%)
Try something like this or similar ( I assume your Hydra has the below diode layout):

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
Cree XT-E CoolWhite (5000-8300K) [120°] x2
Cree XP-E Green (520-535nm) [120°] x2
OSRAM OSLON-SSL HyperRed (644-666nm) [120°] x2
SemiLEDs C35L-U-A UV (400-410nm) (U60) [120°] x1
SemiLEDs C35L-U-A UV (410-420nm) (U70) [120°] x1
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 563 lm
Radiant flux : 3,457 mW
PPF : 14 umol/s
TCP : 17240 K
CRI : 59
λp : 413 nm
Color : #B49BFF

Note these are diode counts.. Just dim (or shut off) a channel accordingly.
1 Semi @ 400-410 = 400 channel dimmed to 50%
ect.
Disclaimer .. no judgement as to growth ect, just "color" for now.
Some normally used channels are shut off i.e royal blue/ deep blue..
IF you think the above has some promise just add some in for taste.
Keep in mind cool white diodes have plenty of royal blue.

Once you find that the look can be created w/ LED's you can get a better idea of which one (if any) can give you that look and output.

You may want to see if any Radion PRO users have a similar look.
Play w/ what you have, it's got a lot of flexibility and sometimes one needs to step out of the box.

Note one error: Semi's above are 3W emitters, all the rest are 1W emitters in the calculator..Keep that in mind.

 

[Scorpius]

Raise your lights up 6 or 8 more inches and run all channels on 100% and see if that it close to what you are wanting? The way that you are describing this is why some people will never leave Metal Halide since they do just that and no LED can mimic that look yet... however, some of the tanks that I have seen with all channels on 100% get the closest.

Kessil are about the only LED I know of that can mimic a metal halide setup for "looks".

 

[Mark75]

There are 1000's of tank images. Doesn't matter if they are "real" or not.
Pick one and post.
Yea monitors differ but probably can convey what you want.

With the Hydras.. try this experiment..
Turn the red and green channel on full.. Add "blues" slowly starting w/ the lowest wavelengths.
See how close you get and if it's too dull start to add whites..
It's the green/yellow hump that makes it difficult to achieve some looks..

Obviously the Hydra won't be able to max out the blues or be useable but the point is to see if you can "fake" white enough without glaring the tank w/ the white diodes.

If you find something you like it will give you an idea of what to look for in an LED..
MH's have a green and red spike and add blue phosphors..

ASSUMING you are reallty referring to a MH "look"

This tank is an example of the look I like and have never been able to achieve with my Hydra 52.
Rich colors without the over exposed glaring white light.

I have had my Hydra 52 for more than 4 years and have tried every color combo possible, it is not capable of producing the "look". It looks the best with all channels 100% and whites at 30% but that is still not the "look".

Maybe it has to do with the whites being to cool?

 

[oreo54]

I haven't checked out the vid but wanted to post it so as to not lose it

 

[oreo54]

This tank is an example of the look I like and have never been able to achieve with my Hydra 52.
Rich colors without the over exposed glaring white light.

I have had my Hydra 52 for more than 4 years and have tried every color combo possible, it is not capable of producing the "look". It looks the best with all channels 100% and whites at 30% but that is still not the "look".

Maybe it has to do with the whites being to cool?

No offense but since there are infinite color combinations that is not possible.
Due to the inherent technology differences it is impossible to get the EXACT spectrum but close is probable.
One may need to DIY it but ????


White diodes are royal blue w/ a yellow /green phosphor.. Going warmer just adds yellow/red.
Not really part of the crisp white-ish blue you are looking for..
Adding blue plus cool white oversturates blue compared to the more RGB approach of Metal halides

Personally one should think of cooling a 6500k light not warming a "actinic" blue light..

I know "theory" but should lead to some practical experiments..
Radion G4 pro "LIKE" dialed in to a Kelvin range.
Actual power factors not considered, just a baseline "what if" ..
Probably should have picked a different MH bulb but oh well..

There is more "UV" than one would generally want.

 

[jda]

What do these type of colors do for you? Too white, too blue, too something, good something or other?


[url=https://flic.kr/p/2bccu8w]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2hvrwxy]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2cH9BWk]

 

[Mark75]

What do these type of colors do for you? Too white, too blue, too something, good something or other?


[url=https://flic.kr/p/2bccu8w]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2hvrwxy]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2cH9BWk]

That is perfect, would you say this is around 12K?

 

[jda]

That is 14k Phoenix 250w Metal Halide. I have never seen a tank with this look under LEDs... which is one of the reason that I don't use them. The closest things is panels raised way up high and 100% on all channels.

 

[oreo54]

 

[jda]

You can try and match that curve all that you want and it will still not look the same. Same goes for the Radium. Only people who don't have tanks and have nary a drop of experience think that only lines on a chart matter.

AI and EcoTech have 14k Phoenix presets, or at least they used to.

 

[tnyr5]

I think I know what look you mean, and in my opinion, it's a function of light intensity, light direction, and water clarity, not spectrum.

 

[oreo54]

I think I know what look you mean, and in my opinion, it's a function of light intensity, light direction, and water clarity, not spectrum.

Pretty sure it's 80% + spectrum..
Want a Phoenix like bulb..
Build something like this..

May want to add a bit of violet..
MH's .. t5's ect all produce white by using effectively RGB. Led whites are blue plus yellow-ish

 

[jda]

What actual experience do you have trying to do this? How successful was it? People who actually have reef tanks, or otherwise operate in the real world, have not been able to get this to work, including people with large R&D budgets like EcoTech. I am sure that all of these people are stupid and you are the only smart one... or there is more to this than internet surfing, posting images and supposing.

Do you think that nobody has tried this? This is the first time that somebody wanted to do this?

If people do not know, Oreo does not reef. He just likes to post. If you want to follow some of his advice, then go for it and have fun, just know that it is nowhere based in any kind of experience or something that actually works.

 

[oreo54]

What actual experience do you have trying to do this? How successful was it? People who actually have reef tanks, or otherwise operate in the real world, have not been able to get this to work, including people with large R&D budgets like EcoTech. I am sure that all of these people are stupid and you are the only smart one... or there is more to this than internet surfing, posting images and supposing.

Do you think that nobody has tried this? This is the first time that somebody wanted to do this?

If people do not know, Oreo does not reef. He just likes to post. If you want to follow some of his advice, then go for it and have fun, just know that it is nowhere based in any kind of experience or something that actually works.

Ask yourself this.. How many reefers would build a light like the above suggestion or even think about it in that way?

Spectrum, spectrum, spectrum.. Tuillo..

You'll never get it as to marketing and herd mentality..besides there is always more than one way to skin a catfish..

Do you think that nobody has tried this?

Actually..................... yes and if they did the attempt was short and feeble.

Name one person who built a RGB(Cyan)A reef light?

You treat MH's as "magic", I just as a physics problem..