A question for the experts on ich

[Mjrenz]

I was reading through all the info on managing and eradicating ich and found myself questioning something; if we completly eradicate ich from our tanks then we don't have to worry about it, until it inadvertently happens (maybe even through aerosol transmission as @Humblefish has posted on a sticky thread). If it does happen, and our fishes don't have their immune systems prepared to fight it, wouldn't that be worse than managing it with a healthy immune system that's ready to fight it by already dealing with the parasite in a controlled population?

I am now preparing myself for the feedback...

 

[Big G]

That is a great question and one hotly debated. I'll use an analogy to help you decide on what's best for your tank.

Would you vaccinate your child to prevent a possible infection or disease that "could" be fatal, knowing that some of his/her friends may be carriers of infection or disease or would you prefer that her/his immune system fight the disease without inoculation?

 

[Mjrenz]

That is a great question and one hotly debated. I'll use an analogy to help you decide on what's best for your tank.

Would you vaccinate your child to prevent a possible infection or disease that "could" be fatal, knowing that some of his/her friends may be carriers of infection or disease or would you prefer that her/his immune system fight the disease without inoculation?

I'm no expert but in my mind I would equate ich management with inoculation and eradication without inoculation.

Thank you for your reply, I'm just very curious and have no intention of questioning anyone's expertise.

 

[Mjrenz]

I'm actually really surprised that I haven't gotten a virus sent to me yet because someone didn't like my question;Blackeye

 

[Big G]

Asking tough questions is what has driven this hobby forward.

 

[Jberge]

I think it’s a good question. You mention possible infection through aerosol transmission, I don’t remember the exact distance but I think it can only travel 8 feet or so. I feel that if we follow all of the proper procedures for quarantining, the odds of it ending up in our DT’s should be slim to none. In my opinion, it’s well worth eradicating it, rather than managing and hoping that all fish immune systems are 100% all the time. Hope I didn’t just jinx myself...knock on wood!

 

[Mjrenz]

I think it’s a good question. You mention possible infection through aerosol transmission, I don’t remember the exact distance but I think it can only travel 8 feet or so. I feel that if we follow all of the proper procedures for quarantining, the odds of it ending up in our DT’s should be slim to none. In my opinion, it’s well worth eradicating it, rather than managing and hoping that all fish immune systems are 100% all the time. Hope I didn’t just jinx myself...knock on wood!

The thread I read today stated 10 feet. I had no idea this was even a possibility. I honestly can't remember if it was stated as an opinion or scientifically proven fact

 

[Big G]

You mention possible infection through aerosol transmission,

The case that this came from, If my memory serves me correctly, the person was using a fan blowing across to cool the top of the tank or help aerate the tank. So it was a bit usual but nonetheless a bit of a shock that the parasite could travel that far.

 

[sean rand]

I

The case that this came from, If my memory serves me correctly, the person was using a fan blowing across to cool the top of the tank or help aerate the tank. So it was a bit usual but nonetheless a bit of a shock that the parasite could travel that far.

I Have my qt tank 1 foot from my sump. U think i am defeating the whole purpose of QT?
The qt has a cover on it

 

[Mjrenz]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aerosol-transmission.190292/

 

[Gareth elliott]

I'm no expert but in my mind I would equate ich management with inoculation and eradication without inoculation.

Thank you for your reply, I'm just very curious and have no intention of questioning anyone's expertise.

There is a lot about a glass box that makes true inoculation quite a difficult undertaking.

Fish the the ocean may get a regular tophpont that will activate an immune response, then falls off and the fish swims away. In the box the fish cant swim away and shear parasite load can cause death before the immune system has a chance to fight.(one day i wont use a bee analogy lol). But like the difference between getting stung by one bee vs 100’s.
Second even the best intentioned aquarist never gets close to a fishes wild diet. This already has decreased the captive fishes immune response vs a wild caught counterpart.

Our main control we have is limiting stress, but if there is a large stress producing event that coincides with an increase in parasite load there is no guarantee that the inoculation from the past months will be enough to fight off acute illness.

So in my view parasite management is a lot like the the first step to medication free pain management, move more less pain. Not long after you reduce your locomotion the pain returns to previous levels. Ich management you are constantly having to keep up your efforts to ensure you are on the winning side. Where as with eradication, we no longer have to worry if we are going to lose some livestock to rinderpest.

I should not type analogies while I’m getting ready to fall asleep will most likely edit this in the morning [emoji23]

 

[HotRocks]

Here is my opinion. If you are careful with your QT process and prevent any cross contamination you never have to worry about ich in your tank.

You can have perfectly happy healthy fish without parasites!

The management route may be one that is feasible for certain people who have lightly stocked tanks, are very selective with stockist (Some fish will tolerate ich or have a higher resistance than others), add things like UV, diatom, oxydators, etc. The management route does have special provisions just like QT does. The other problem is the prevalence of velvet these days... It would be much tougher to "manage" than ich.

 

[HotRocks]

I

I Have my qt tank 1 foot from my sump. U think i am defeating the whole purpose of QT?
The qt has a cover on it

That is definitely close enough that it's going to be very difficult to prevent cross contamination.

Also you don't want to completely cover tanks for the purpose of proper oxygenation.

 

[Mjrenz]

I'm really happy to hear everyone's opinion on this, it really adds a lot of insight to all the reading I did earlier today on the subject

 

[sean rand]

That is definitely close enough that it's going to be very difficult to prevent cross contamination.

Also you don't want to completely cover tanks for the purpose of proper oxygenation.

The tank is covered and little part is open

 

[sean rand]

That is definitely close enough that it's going to be very difficult to prevent cross contamination.

Also you don't want to completely cover tanks for the purpose of proper oxygenation.

So is my qt pointless then?

 

[Mjrenz]

My main reason for the original question is I had a fluke infestation in my tank and you guys helped me identify it and fight it off with Prazi. I've never quarantined up until then so I started reading about the process and progressed onto the ich subject and all the other possible diseases that I've never even thought of(and probably lost fish to). Ultimately I can't figure out a feasible way for me to set up qt tanks that I don't have room for in my house, capture all of my fish, and leave my display tanks empty for 76 days without my wife becoming a future star on forensic files.

 

[4FordFamily]

Here is my opinion. If you are careful with your QT process and prevent any cross contamination you never have to worry about ich in your tank.

You can have perfectly happy healthy fish without parasites!

The management route may be one that is feasible for certain people who have lightly stocked tanks, are very selective with stockist (Some fish will tolerate ich or have a higher resistance than others), add things like UV, diatom, oxydators, etc. The management route does have special provisions just like QT does. The other problem is the prevalence of velvet these days... It would be much tougher to "manage" than ich.

100% concur. I managed ich for a decade before realizing what I was too stubborn to see at the time. Disease became more and more prevalent and now velvet is every bit as prevalent as ich. Things have changed, management just isn’t an option for many of us, especially if you want to keep difficult and expert level fish and Acanthurus tangs. Even easy fish are often wiped out by velvet. It’s just not worth the risk, I have too many healthy fish in my other tanks, I owe it to them to protect them. Even if I didn’t care about their lives and was cold, I have too much money in fish in my display tanks to risk it as well.

 

[Big G]

I

I Have my qt tank 1 foot from my sump. U think i am defeating the whole purpose of QT?
The qt has a cover on it

Providing you have the room, consider placing your QT as far away from the DT and sump as possible. Keep a complete set of tools: nets, siphons, etc. for each to prevent accidental cross contamination. And I know this may seem to be a very small consideration. Place the QT in a quiet location without a lot of traffic, noise, etc. Fish are incredibly stressed when moved. A nice quiet transitional place would be great for your new fish, if possible.

 

[sean rand]

Providing you have the room, consider placing your QT as far away from the DT and sump as possible. Keep a complete set of tools: nets, siphons, etc. for each to prevent accidental cross contamination. And I know this may seem to be a very small consideration. Place the QT in a quiet location without a lot of traffic, noise, etc. Fish are incredibly stressed when moved. A nice quiet transitional place would be great for your new fish, if possible.

My fish room is in my boiler room in my basement. Givin that my qt are so close to my sump would that make my qt pointless?