Wiz
2500 Club Member
Hello all,
I am a very strong believer in a display refugium or at the least a very large refugium. Done well, it can be as beautiful as a coral display. The benefits of breeding macrolife in your system are obvious. And with enough Macro algae's it can be a useful tool in nutrient export imo. And at this point I would normally tell the benefits of a deep sand bed, but I am having some inner struggles with that at the moment. But we will get into that.
My refugium has gone through a few Metamorphoses as time progressed. Some for the better and some not so much. After having my you nice warm slick for a length of time my refugium has taken the final nail in the coffin. And I do believe it is time to start from scratch. So in this thread I will explain the processes that I have gone through, the current conditions and frame of mind. And the future plans which I will need input on. So if that interests you at all here we go......
The begining
I started with a 40 breeder display and a 20 long sump with about a foot section of refugium. The refugium consisted of about 2 in of live sand a few pieces of rubble, chaeto and caulerpa macros. 2x18w pc light. I ordered pods from five or six different places. And got a few small bags of live sand from different tanks that were well populated. The refugium took off immediately. A year in I took videos of a 3-inch section of my sand that were unbelievably live. Hundreds of things moving around in just that 3 in. It was awesome, all the way up until my display got crowded. Then my nitrate and phosphate slowly started to climb. A bigger fuge was in my near future.
The first evolution
I went out and bought a 30 gallon long tank which I drilled myself. I built a stand it was midway between my Sump and display. I put the refugium to the left of my display and piped the water from the display to the refugium and the refugium to the sump and back up again. I recreated the same refugium only bigger. I added a dsb,a few pieces of live rock and more macros. It took off again. Awesome, amphipods,copapods,isopods,caprilids, worms of all types including a ghostly looking small acoel flatworm colony I loved! Display came back in line for nutrients. Actually had a hard time keeping them up. And my display was overstocked with coral and fish. UNTIL I noticed a few planaria in both display and fuge.
the trouble begins
I freaked out! I've seen the plague's! I knew what disaster was headed my way! (Lol); or at least I thought so at the time. So I did the unthinkable. I used a flatworm solution in my tank that was supposedly reef safe. I knew it would at least be effective on the flatworms. So I went to my fuge and took out about 40 specimens of my very cool acoel white flatworms. I placed them in another containment for safe keeping for a few days. Sucked out what I could see for flatworms and in the solution went. As predicted all the flatworms in my system including my babies let go almost immediately and were being scooped out of the water column as they died. It was heartbreaking. In the process I learnt two things. First, I also had waminoa flatworms. Which I was unaware of. Second flatworm solution kills all bugs and worms not just flatworms. :0 I had completely decimated every bit of life that was in my refugium. I cannot tell you how badly I felt for the next week's. Needless to say that was the last time that I will ever treat anything chemically in my tank. And on a side note I've come to learn that these flatworms were not even a threat. Keeping them in check would have been much easier and much less heartache. But anyway. After about 4 days I decided to add my white flatworms back to the refugium as the medication should have passed by that point. Most died upon hitting the water. And what few were still moving were never seen again. The macros were still doing well and nutrient export was still working. So time went on.
The move
A short while later I wound up buying my first house. Yay! And so came the move. As everyone knows when you move a tank from one place to another you have to upgrade it.
so my 40 breeder became a 75 and my 20 long sump became a 29 sump. But rather than start over with nothing I decided to move the refugium all in one piece. I drained the water to the sand level slid it off the stand and moved it to my new house half an hour away where it was placed back into the waiting new tank and sump and is now part of my system again. During the move a corner of the dsb was damaged and turn black. But within a month it had recovered and was healthy once again. I've been in my new house for a bit more than a year now. And although I have had some success recovering the amphipods and larger worms such as Bristles, it is still nowhere near the same. I do not have anywhere near the variety of worms nor do I have anything small such as copepods, the sea mites that I used to have, the white flatworms, as well as many others just would not return no matter how many orders are pods or nice looking live rock I added. It was killing me because my refugium has always been just as dear to me as my display. The sea mites and white flatworms were some of my favorite inhabitants. My only option was to keep on trying and accept the failures with Grace.
Slick!
So as you may have guessed I like reefing mainly because I enjoy difference. I have a love for all of the creepy Critters in strange things that people generally do not like or know not much about. After seeing a post about a eunice worm, I decided that I must have one. And being that they are generally thought to be Predators I did not see why it could not reside in my refugium. Which also happened to have a 6-inch sand bed that would be required in order to house such a creature. After a while of disappointments I wound up receiving a 3-foot worm from Long Island New York. I was thrilled. I added him to the system and he created a home. That is when I started to learn things I didn't know about eunice worms. I forgot to mention that my two (foot plus) Kenya Trees all their babies and a bunch of pink and gold paly's had been banished to my refugium as they cannot be killed and would not stop growing and nobody will take them without putting a lighter to them. Lol well slick ate those in a few weeks. Completely gone. After all the coral was gone he began to eat my red macroalgae. I would have thought they were dying except that I kept finding his poop that was comprised entirely of red macroalgae. Not to mention all the scraps that were clogging my drain and at one point caused an overflow. A number of feelings came over me at that point. First I could not believe that slick was at least a omnivore. Second I had to come to terms with the fact that my red macroalgae were on their way out. Very unhappy about that. Third assuming I could accept the lack of red macro I would have to become much more diligent about cleaning my drain every day. I was so psyched about slick that I accepted all of these trials and kept on keeping on. It took a while but eventually he depleted the red macros and ate all of my shaving bushes and mermaids fans. At this moment he is working on all the macros I have left. Two caulerpas and chaeto. I have started giving him chunks of silver side once a week. And although it has slowed the lawn mowing still continues. And for an added kick in the pants slick has set his cave up on the back side of my refugium where you cannot see him unless you shine a light back there. But the second you do he Ducks underneath the rock that he dug into and that's it. You catch a glimpse. So my beautiful refugium is now down to dwindling green macros with barely any life. And recently my nitrates and phosphates have begun to sneak back up. Nothing serious but I've got my eye on it.
The current dilemma
No macrolife, monotone macroalgae, nutrients beginning to climb again, the constant threat of overflow, and no slick in sight coupled with my doubts about my dsb is screaming EVICTION AND A NEW BEGINNING!
the plan
I have decided to find slick a loving home, save what I can for macros then close of the fuge and empty it completely. Sand, rock, and water. Gone. Then restart from scratch renewing my strict plant only fuge rule and NO chemicals ever!
Dilemma's
The first and largest dilemma is that there is no way to bypass my refugium. I was not smart enough to use a manifold. Therefore I can close it off but in doing so will also closed off my sump. Which pretty much means that this needs to be done quickly. And my refugium is going to have to cycle while connected to the rest of the system. Not quite sure how that will work out. I'm assuming with the rest of the system being almost three times the volume of the refugium it will not be a disaster. But I am expecting a few issues.
Dilemma two is something I never thought I would grapple with. Since beginning this system I have been a firm believer in my dsb. The system is obviously doing well and the dsb was designed according to Ron shimek fantastic article on DSBs. After being disturbed during the move it turned black and repaired itself exactly the way it was described. Which leads me to believe that the Oolitic sand is populated with bacteria and working properly in that sense. the issues that I have been grappling with are as follows. First the nutrients at one time were held in check with out a dsb. Which makes it at the very least unnecessary. Secondly it takes up almost half the tank and looks gross. Lol and lastly all of the processes that are described in nitrate removal by dsb only seem to be occurring in the top inch or so of live sand that I use to hold the ooliticand down. The oolitic sand does not seem to have any movement or pathways through it nor any gas bubbles rising to the top. All of those things are in that top inch. And also in the inch of sand in my display. Which makes me wonder if this deep sand is actually helping at all. I am very seriously considering building this refugium similar to the first. Only about 2 inches of regular live sand. But I am afraid that it might shock my system.
End
So there it is and an extremely long and boring nutshell. Any input that you guys might have would be appreciated. I will add pics of the original fuge, the fuge just before slick, and the fuge currently. As well as a vid showing the life that I once had.
Thank you very much for a reading if you got this far. And any input.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1019326818208945&id=100003949083150
I am a very strong believer in a display refugium or at the least a very large refugium. Done well, it can be as beautiful as a coral display. The benefits of breeding macrolife in your system are obvious. And with enough Macro algae's it can be a useful tool in nutrient export imo. And at this point I would normally tell the benefits of a deep sand bed, but I am having some inner struggles with that at the moment. But we will get into that.
My refugium has gone through a few Metamorphoses as time progressed. Some for the better and some not so much. After having my you nice warm slick for a length of time my refugium has taken the final nail in the coffin. And I do believe it is time to start from scratch. So in this thread I will explain the processes that I have gone through, the current conditions and frame of mind. And the future plans which I will need input on. So if that interests you at all here we go......
The begining
I started with a 40 breeder display and a 20 long sump with about a foot section of refugium. The refugium consisted of about 2 in of live sand a few pieces of rubble, chaeto and caulerpa macros. 2x18w pc light. I ordered pods from five or six different places. And got a few small bags of live sand from different tanks that were well populated. The refugium took off immediately. A year in I took videos of a 3-inch section of my sand that were unbelievably live. Hundreds of things moving around in just that 3 in. It was awesome, all the way up until my display got crowded. Then my nitrate and phosphate slowly started to climb. A bigger fuge was in my near future.
The first evolution
I went out and bought a 30 gallon long tank which I drilled myself. I built a stand it was midway between my Sump and display. I put the refugium to the left of my display and piped the water from the display to the refugium and the refugium to the sump and back up again. I recreated the same refugium only bigger. I added a dsb,a few pieces of live rock and more macros. It took off again. Awesome, amphipods,copapods,isopods,caprilids, worms of all types including a ghostly looking small acoel flatworm colony I loved! Display came back in line for nutrients. Actually had a hard time keeping them up. And my display was overstocked with coral and fish. UNTIL I noticed a few planaria in both display and fuge.
the trouble begins
I freaked out! I've seen the plague's! I knew what disaster was headed my way! (Lol); or at least I thought so at the time. So I did the unthinkable. I used a flatworm solution in my tank that was supposedly reef safe. I knew it would at least be effective on the flatworms. So I went to my fuge and took out about 40 specimens of my very cool acoel white flatworms. I placed them in another containment for safe keeping for a few days. Sucked out what I could see for flatworms and in the solution went. As predicted all the flatworms in my system including my babies let go almost immediately and were being scooped out of the water column as they died. It was heartbreaking. In the process I learnt two things. First, I also had waminoa flatworms. Which I was unaware of. Second flatworm solution kills all bugs and worms not just flatworms. :0 I had completely decimated every bit of life that was in my refugium. I cannot tell you how badly I felt for the next week's. Needless to say that was the last time that I will ever treat anything chemically in my tank. And on a side note I've come to learn that these flatworms were not even a threat. Keeping them in check would have been much easier and much less heartache. But anyway. After about 4 days I decided to add my white flatworms back to the refugium as the medication should have passed by that point. Most died upon hitting the water. And what few were still moving were never seen again. The macros were still doing well and nutrient export was still working. So time went on.
The move
A short while later I wound up buying my first house. Yay! And so came the move. As everyone knows when you move a tank from one place to another you have to upgrade it.
so my 40 breeder became a 75 and my 20 long sump became a 29 sump. But rather than start over with nothing I decided to move the refugium all in one piece. I drained the water to the sand level slid it off the stand and moved it to my new house half an hour away where it was placed back into the waiting new tank and sump and is now part of my system again. During the move a corner of the dsb was damaged and turn black. But within a month it had recovered and was healthy once again. I've been in my new house for a bit more than a year now. And although I have had some success recovering the amphipods and larger worms such as Bristles, it is still nowhere near the same. I do not have anywhere near the variety of worms nor do I have anything small such as copepods, the sea mites that I used to have, the white flatworms, as well as many others just would not return no matter how many orders are pods or nice looking live rock I added. It was killing me because my refugium has always been just as dear to me as my display. The sea mites and white flatworms were some of my favorite inhabitants. My only option was to keep on trying and accept the failures with Grace.Slick!
So as you may have guessed I like reefing mainly because I enjoy difference. I have a love for all of the creepy Critters in strange things that people generally do not like or know not much about. After seeing a post about a eunice worm, I decided that I must have one. And being that they are generally thought to be Predators I did not see why it could not reside in my refugium. Which also happened to have a 6-inch sand bed that would be required in order to house such a creature. After a while of disappointments I wound up receiving a 3-foot worm from Long Island New York. I was thrilled. I added him to the system and he created a home. That is when I started to learn things I didn't know about eunice worms. I forgot to mention that my two (foot plus) Kenya Trees all their babies and a bunch of pink and gold paly's had been banished to my refugium as they cannot be killed and would not stop growing and nobody will take them without putting a lighter to them. Lol well slick ate those in a few weeks. Completely gone. After all the coral was gone he began to eat my red macroalgae. I would have thought they were dying except that I kept finding his poop that was comprised entirely of red macroalgae. Not to mention all the scraps that were clogging my drain and at one point caused an overflow. A number of feelings came over me at that point. First I could not believe that slick was at least a omnivore. Second I had to come to terms with the fact that my red macroalgae were on their way out. Very unhappy about that. Third assuming I could accept the lack of red macro I would have to become much more diligent about cleaning my drain every day. I was so psyched about slick that I accepted all of these trials and kept on keeping on. It took a while but eventually he depleted the red macros and ate all of my shaving bushes and mermaids fans. At this moment he is working on all the macros I have left. Two caulerpas and chaeto. I have started giving him chunks of silver side once a week. And although it has slowed the lawn mowing still continues. And for an added kick in the pants slick has set his cave up on the back side of my refugium where you cannot see him unless you shine a light back there. But the second you do he Ducks underneath the rock that he dug into and that's it. You catch a glimpse. So my beautiful refugium is now down to dwindling green macros with barely any life. And recently my nitrates and phosphates have begun to sneak back up. Nothing serious but I've got my eye on it.
The current dilemma
No macrolife, monotone macroalgae, nutrients beginning to climb again, the constant threat of overflow, and no slick in sight coupled with my doubts about my dsb is screaming EVICTION AND A NEW BEGINNING!
the plan
I have decided to find slick a loving home, save what I can for macros then close of the fuge and empty it completely. Sand, rock, and water. Gone. Then restart from scratch renewing my strict plant only fuge rule and NO chemicals ever!
Dilemma's
The first and largest dilemma is that there is no way to bypass my refugium. I was not smart enough to use a manifold. Therefore I can close it off but in doing so will also closed off my sump. Which pretty much means that this needs to be done quickly. And my refugium is going to have to cycle while connected to the rest of the system. Not quite sure how that will work out. I'm assuming with the rest of the system being almost three times the volume of the refugium it will not be a disaster. But I am expecting a few issues.
Dilemma two is something I never thought I would grapple with. Since beginning this system I have been a firm believer in my dsb. The system is obviously doing well and the dsb was designed according to Ron shimek fantastic article on DSBs. After being disturbed during the move it turned black and repaired itself exactly the way it was described. Which leads me to believe that the Oolitic sand is populated with bacteria and working properly in that sense. the issues that I have been grappling with are as follows. First the nutrients at one time were held in check with out a dsb. Which makes it at the very least unnecessary. Secondly it takes up almost half the tank and looks gross. Lol and lastly all of the processes that are described in nitrate removal by dsb only seem to be occurring in the top inch or so of live sand that I use to hold the ooliticand down. The oolitic sand does not seem to have any movement or pathways through it nor any gas bubbles rising to the top. All of those things are in that top inch. And also in the inch of sand in my display. Which makes me wonder if this deep sand is actually helping at all. I am very seriously considering building this refugium similar to the first. Only about 2 inches of regular live sand. But I am afraid that it might shock my system.
End
So there it is and an extremely long and boring nutshell. Any input that you guys might have would be appreciated. I will add pics of the original fuge, the fuge just before slick, and the fuge currently. As well as a vid showing the life that I once had.
Thank you very much for a reading if you got this far. And any input.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1019326818208945&id=100003949083150
