A warning about toxicity. A MUST read.

robharold · Jul 24, 2008

surfn said:
ok, if you want to go there....

i have degrees in biochemistry, psychology, and chemistry. and i'm currently working on my PhD in neuropulmonary pharmacology and toxicology at the University of Virginia...which is one of the most prestigeous medical research universities in the country. i am also contracted as a scientist by one of the top pharmaceutical companies in the world in development of a drug that works directly on the peripheral nerves that control the heart and lungs.

i have used tetradotoxin as well as several other marine neurotoxins in animal testing studies to assess receptor binding at nerve terminals. so it happens that while i have never used palytoxin in a lab (nor will ever need to since its pretty useless as far as research goes) that its right up my alley as far as mechanisms of action go.

Well, then at least you do know there whereof you speak.

Still disagree that you should be so bold to others you do not know.

oceanparadise1 · Jul 24, 2008

Sorry guys, didnt know people would get mad over this. I just thought that every one has the right to know, i mean, thats what these forums are for correct?

Azurel · Jul 24, 2008

I got a 40 cal. That will numb any spot I put it to......I will take your paly toxin and raise you 10 in the clip and one in the chamber.......LOL

oceanparadise1 · Jul 24, 2008

LOL, i dont like that bet!

EliteReefs · Jul 24, 2008

Azurel said:
I got a 40 cal. That will numb any spot I put it to......I will take your paly toxin and raise you 10 in the clip and one in the chamber.......LOL

i'll take that bet and raise you my marlin 45/70 guide gun.(or as my friends call it "the shoulder mounted cannon"

robharold · Jul 24, 2008

I'll raise you a black hawk with 50 Cal mounted on it!

Its nice to have friends.

oceanparadise1 · Jul 24, 2008

LOL u guys are flippin crazyyy

surfn · Jul 24, 2008

oceanparadise1 said:
Sorry guys, didnt know people would get mad over this. I just thought that every one has the right to know, i mean, thats what these forums are for correct?

thats true, but the internet and especially public forums are a major source of misinformation and rumors. allot of people have the "i stayed at a holiday inn" syndrome and give advice like they are experts in the field and know everything about palytoxin just because they did a google search and looked it up on wikipedia.

thats why doctors get so ticked off when patients come to them and want a specific treatment or medication b/c that is what they read on the internet.

i didn't mean to come off rough, but the palytoxin issue has been beaten to death for years in this hobby. and most of the claims people make are so outrageous from a scientific perspective......b/c they in fact don't have any scientific proof or have any clue about how it works.

some may chastize me for calling people out like this, but this is how it would work at any major scientific conference if someone came up with some outrageous results with absolutely no evidence to back it up.....other scientists would stand up and call that person out right then and there. bottom line is you can't make a scientific claim with out specific evidence, and scientific credibility.

oceanparadise1 · Jul 24, 2008

Im not worry about calling me out. Im a big boy

, but i will just call you out back LOL i say proof that this killed a dog. Now, for me, that enough prove that people should not take this lightly.

Any one who has a dog, cat or any non-fish pet should know that if they leave a frag out there might be a chance it could kill them! THats all, just ment as a lil warning lol

surfn · Jul 24, 2008

oceanparadise1 said:
Im not worry about calling me out. Im a big boy , but i will just call you out back LOL i say proof that this killed a dog. Now, for me, that enough prove that people should not take this lightly.

Any one who has a dog, cat or any non-fish pet should know that if they leave a frag out there might be a chance it could kill them! THats all, just ment as a lil warning lol

thats not proof that its palytoxin though. i'd bet $10,000 that if the dog ate almost ANY coral in a saltwater tank that it would probably die. anenomes, star polyps, ricordia, leathers, even aiptasia are very poisonous. we don't have a clue what 1/10th of the compounds in the mucos of soft corals can do to humans/animals. even allot of the fish we keep are poisonous to eat, even though they are fine to handle.

IMO, keeping corals away from your pets, cleaning up after yourself, not putting open wounds on your hands/arms in your tank, and not tasting your corals is just plain common sense.

oceanparadise1 · Jul 24, 2008

I agree also, but i guess in the dog case we will just have to agree to disagree

Ike · Jul 25, 2008

oceanparadise1 said:
I agree also, but i guess in the dog case we will just have to agree to disagree

Just to add more fuel to the fire... There have been studies of palytoxin using dogs and IIRC in all instances a lethal dose killed the dog within 5 minutes. Given that, there's a pretty dang good chance there was another toxin and other factors at play here.

Surfn, Palythoa is considered a Zoanthid as they are part of the family zoanthidae, as are Parazoanthus, Zoanthus, Protopalythoa, etc. I also know that even within Palythoa toxica there have been slightly different toxins found within that species and it seems to depend on the collection area. So, you're correct to say that not all zoanthids have palytoxin present.

gflat65 · Jul 25, 2008

Where can we find some of these dog killing studies? The army dropped the idea of using palytoxin years ago beacuse it wasn't easy enough to get in an amount large enough to be useful. I find it interesting that someone else is spending their money on it when the best money waster in the world has abandoned it for lack of benefit to the dollar spent (our government).