A week in with a Neptune DOS pump

[Greybeard]

Just a quick review. Picked up a Neptune DOS pump for Automatic Water Changes during BRS's 10% off Black Friday sale. Been up and running just over a week now, wanted to post some thoughts...

Choice: I picked a DOS for my Auto Water Changes because (A) I have an Apex (Classic), and (B) I can't find another dual head pump with stepper motors for less. The pump motors should be far more reliable than cheaper dosing pumps. I'm going to be pumping 1.5 gallons a day with each pump... probably burn up a cheap doser in a week.

Purchase, packaging, quality, etc... Fine. BRS got it to me fast, packaging was sufficient to get it to me undamaged, looks just like I'd expected it to look... so far so good.

For my application, the DOS is mounted to a wall. Pump 1 is pulling from a 55g Rubbermaid trash can and running 3' to the sump. Pump 2 is pulling from the sump and running 80' under the house, exiting at a gravel bed near my heat pump. I plumbed the system using some 1/4" stem adapters and john guest barrel connectors. Gets me from the supplied clear tubing to 1/4" poly line easily, with little chance of a leak.

OK, mounted and plumbed, no problem. Calibrate, and I should be ready to start my auto water changes.

Calibration:

Why, oh why, is there no way to start a calibration of the DOS pump from Fusion? You've got to go to the display module. Huh? My display module is mounted over by the tank... other side of a wall from where the DOS pump is. Gotta be a mistake. Heck, the newer model Apex don't even HAVE a display module... Nope. No way to start a calibration from Fusion. Some online info show a task for calibrating a DOS... but my Fusion does not show that task. Had to have my wife hold the calibration vessel and hose while I started the calibration draw. Really? My cheap CoralBox wifi doser handles calibration much better than the DOS.

Rotation on pump 2: For some reason, the 'auto water change' task configures your DOS to use pump 2 in a reverse direction. The plumbing diagram clearly shows this... draw from the tank, run to disposal container... pump running COUNTER clockwise. There doesn't appear to be any way to override this rather odd decision. Ok, fine. Calibration, of course, runs both pumps Clockwise. So... to calibrate, you've got to change up the plumbing. Is calibration accurate if you change direction and plumbing? No idea.

Noise: You'll find a good many people complain about the noise level of the DOS pump. I'm real sensitive to noise... and I don't want it. I was aware that the DOS had a reputation for being rather loud, and that I might have to deal with that. Yup... it's a bit loud. A layer of foam rubber between the pump and the wall and some rubber grommets on the mounting screws fixed it right up. Honestly, I'd say this wasn't that big a deal... EXCEPT. It's a THREE HUNDRED DOLLAR PUMP. Factory couldn't add some rubber bumpers to the housing? Really?

Neptune, I love 'ya. As a refugee from ReefKeeper land... I'm a VERY happy Apex user. This thing needs some work.

Oh, the AWC itself? So far so good... a week in, can't really see any changes in my tank, which, IMHO, is probably a good thing!

 

[User1]

Good feedback to for the forum, thanks. If you haven't done so shoot Neptune a email also. While they may not have lowering the noise and vibration concerns another message it may get it over the top. I've had my DOS since June but not had the need to connect it up yet. Intent was to dose ESV 2 part but my tank is not ready for it yet so it is just sitting there all boxed up.

I've not read much about it so the comment about being loud and your solution is helpful. Mine will be in my den/office at home and while some noise is acceptable I tend to be like you in that I'd like to avoid it if possible. Thus me running DC pumps even for my skimmer.

It will be interesting to see how long the motors in their DOS last you. That is one other complaint that I've read when using these for AWC's. The pumps need to be replaced and they are not cheap. Not sure how long between replacements so just take this with a grain of salt. Good job though and thank you for sharing. I'll borrow your tip on lowering the noise if you don't mind

 

[MaddyP]

Just a quick review. Picked up a Neptune DOS pump for Automatic Water Changes during BRS's 10% off Black Friday sale. Been up and running just over a week now, wanted to post some thoughts...

Choice: I picked a DOS for my Auto Water Changes because (A) I have an Apex (Classic), and (B) I can't find another dual head pump with stepper motors for less. The pump motors should be far more reliable than cheaper dosing pumps. I'm going to be pumping 1.5 gallons a day with each pump... probably burn up a cheap doser in a week.

Purchase, packaging, quality, etc... Fine. BRS got it to me fast, packaging was sufficient to get it to me undamaged, looks just like I'd expected it to look... so far so good.

For my application, the DOS is mounted to a wall. Pump 1 is pulling from a 55g Rubbermaid trash can and running 3' to the sump. Pump 2 is pulling from the sump and running 80' under the house, exiting at a gravel bed near my heat pump. I plumbed the system using some 1/4" stem adapters and john guest barrel connectors. Gets me from the supplied clear tubing to 1/4" poly line easily, with little chance of a leak.

OK, mounted and plumbed, no problem. Calibrate, and I should be ready to start my auto water changes.

Calibration:

Why, oh why, is there no way to start a calibration of the DOS pump from Fusion? You've got to go to the display module. Huh? My display module is mounted over by the tank... other side of a wall from where the DOS pump is. Gotta be a mistake. Heck, the newer model Apex don't even HAVE a display module... Nope. No way to start a calibration from Fusion. Some online info show a task for calibrating a DOS... but my Fusion does not show that task. Had to have my wife hold the calibration vessel and hose while I started the calibration draw. Really? My cheap CoralBox wifi doser handles calibration much better than the DOS.

Rotation on pump 2: For some reason, the 'auto water change' task configures your DOS to use pump 2 in a reverse direction. The plumbing diagram clearly shows this... draw from the tank, run to disposal container... pump running COUNTER clockwise. There doesn't appear to be any way to override this rather odd decision. Ok, fine. Calibration, of course, runs both pumps Clockwise. So... to calibrate, you've got to change up the plumbing. Is calibration accurate if you change direction and plumbing? No idea.

Noise: You'll find a good many people complain about the noise level of the DOS pump. I'm real sensitive to noise... and I don't want it. I was aware that the DOS had a reputation for being rather loud, and that I might have to deal with that. Yup... it's a bit loud. A layer of foam rubber between the pump and the wall and some rubber grommets on the mounting screws fixed it right up. Honestly, I'd say this wasn't that big a deal... EXCEPT. It's a THREE HUNDRED DOLLAR PUMP. Factory couldn't add some rubber bumpers to the housing? Really?

Neptune, I love 'ya. As a refugee from ReefKeeper land... I'm a VERY happy Apex user. This thing needs some work.

Oh, the AWC itself? So far so good... a week in, can't really see any changes in my tank, which, IMHO, is probably a good thing!

Great review! Yes, I agree with everything except one thing...the app does allow you to calibrate the pumps, however, it requires the reservoir container be attached to access this feature.



You can spoof a reservoir which will also give you the added benefit of visually knowing the volume of your water change containers. I have the below on both my DOS units.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/apex-dos-diy-level-switch.246352/#post-2897212

 

[Greybeard]

Not on my Fusion. Might be a lack of dosing containers (pointless for AWC system), might be because I have an Apex Classic... Don't know, don't really care why, just know that calibrating my DOS is a two man job... and there is zero reason for it.

 

[User1]

Great review! Yes, I agree with everything except one thing...the app does allow you to calibrate the pumps, however, it requires the reservoir container be attached to access this feature.



You can spoof a reservoir which will also give you the added benefit of visually knowing the volume of your water change containers. I have the below on both my DOS units.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/apex-dos-diy-level-switch.246352/#post-2897212

That thread can come in handy - thanks

 

[Water Dog]

I believe it is the pump heads ($29 each) that are the wear items, especially when used for AWC, not the stepper motors themselves. While I haven’t tried these options yet, in doing research about my newly acquired DOS and DDR, I believe I’ve found more economically friendly replacement alternatives. The internal tubing seems to be 1/4” tubing with a 1/8” ID and 1/16” wall thickness. So based on the Masterflex pump threads, if Tygon PharMed BPT tubing is the most durable for continuous duty peristaltic pumps, it’s got to be good for the intermittent running DOS. It also seems that replacement rollers can be purchased through Avast Marine... $8.99 for a 4 pack, each DOS pump head uses 2. Again, I haven’t tried these alternatives as yet, but plan to give it a go when the time comes.

https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=25399&catid=864

https://www.avastmarine.com/products/replacement-pump-roller

 

[Waters]

I hope you have better luck with yours than I do.....after 6 months of use, I have had to replace both heads. The Neptune tubing needs to be replaced every couple of months or it starts to develop air bubbles in the lines (probably not much of a concern with water changes). Also one of the dosing motors seems to lock up.....I end up verifying it is working every night by manually hitting the dosing button to make sure the motor turns. If it locks up, I have to unplug and plug the DOS back in. My DDR experience was even worse lol. That being said, I love it when it is working

 

[Water Dog]

Have you tried replacing the leaky screw on soft tubing compression connectors with John Guest fittings? It should solve the problems of air leaks when using a DOS with a DDR. Here’s a great RC thread for that mod...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2544673

 

[Greybeard]

Have you tried replacing the leaky screw on soft tubing compression connectors with John Guest fittings? It should solve the problems of air leaks when using a DOS with a DDR. Here’s a great RC thread for that mod...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2544673

I'm not having a problem there... at least, not yet, but I really like this mod. Don't know why Apex wouldn't offer them this way!

I used the included clear tube to connect to the compression fittings, and then a 1/4" stem, and a barrel... it worked out pretty well, but the 1/4" threaded NPT-> John Guest fitting direct makes far more sense

 

[Water Dog]

For me, I plan on using the DDR, which comes with John Guest fittings. It makes absolutely no sense to not use John Guest fittings on the DOS itself so rigid RO tubing can be used. The DOS soft tubing allows air leaks when used in the DDR’s John Guest fittings. Total head scratcher as to Neptune’s rationale for using different types of tubing connections.

 

[Mrx7899]

The stepper motors are good for 5000 hours according to apex. I replace my heads once a year and I change 2 gallons a day.

 

[ddrueckh]

1) I don't know why your Fusion doesn't allow you to calibrate your DOS. Mine does through the Tasks tab...

2) You can change the direction of the second pump. Go into Modify Interval and change the Action (Remove/Add). The reason they have it setup the way they do is so when you look at the doses it shows how much is added from one pump head and removed from the other. You can change it, though. Just make sure you switch your tubing if you change it.

3) I agree with the noise. Why so LOUD???

 

[ddrueckh]

1) I don't know why your Fusion doesn't allow you to calibrate your DOS. Mine does through the Tasks tab...

2) You can change the direction of the second pump. Go into Modify Interval and change the Action (Remove/Add). The reason they have it setup the way they do is so when you look at the doses it shows how much is added from one pump head and removed from the other. You can change it, though. Just make sure you switch your tubing if you change it.

3) I agree with the noise. Why so LOUD???

 

[Greybeard]

1) I don't know why your Fusion doesn't allow you to calibrate your DOS. Mine does through the Tasks tab...

2) You can change the direction of the second pump. Go into Modify Interval and change the Action (Remove/Add). The reason they have it setup the way they do is so when you look at the doses it shows how much is added from one pump head and removed from the other. You can change it, though. Just make sure you switch your tubing if you change it.

3) I agree with the noise. Why so LOUD???

Nope:

As for direction, I don't necessarily care which way pump 2 runs, but it's always been my experience that calibration should be done as close to live as possible. Calibrating one way and running the other doesn't encourage trust in calibration.

 

[User1]

This thread just keeps on delivering. Great tip on the fittings.

 

[Silver14SS]

I have 2 DOS connected with 2 1Link cables and can calibrate through fusion on the modules page.


Then select the DOS on the next screen, then change to Configure

 

[Greybeard]

I have 2 DOS connected with 2 1Link cables and can calibrate through fusion on the modules page.

Since you have a 1Link port... I'm assuming that you have a 2016 Apex. I have an Apex Classic. Perhaps the problem that I had in calibrating the Apex is only applicable to users like myself, with an older Apex.

If Neptune would sell the Apex EL base unit stand alone, as they do the full Apex 2016, at a reasonable price... What's reasonable? The full blown Apex 2016 runs $399, and as a full kit, it's $300 more than the EL model. Say $200? Seems fair... Anyway, if it were available, I'd be happy to retire my Apex Classic.

 

[Radman73]

My DOS was truly a lifesaver for AWC use. Got it set up right before my 2nd cervical fusion surgery and it prevented me from trying to use 5gal buckets during a time where I shouldn't have even been lifting a gallon of milk. Worked extremely well for me. Currently use it to dose 2-part, and it seems to be working well for that, though I am getting occasional air bubbles. Just haven't invested the time to track that down yet.

 

[Silver14SS]

Since you have a 1Link port... I'm assuming that you have a 2016 Apex. I have an Apex Classic. Perhaps the problem that I had in calibrating the Apex is only applicable to users like myself

That might be the difference, thanks for the detail!

 

[2una]

Since you have a 1Link port... I'm assuming that you have a 2016 Apex. I have an Apex Classic. Perhaps the problem that I had in calibrating the Apex is only applicable to users like myself, with an older Apex.

I'm also classic - you can do it thru apex local on the pc also.
configuration/module setup - select DOS - calibration down the bottom

 

[Greybeard]

I'm also classic - you can do it thru apex local on the pc also.
configuration/module setup - select DOS - calibration down the bottom

Apex Local...

There's another sore spot to poke at

Why isn't there a link on the Apex Fusion app to get you to Apex Local?

The Apex knows it's IP address... Ok, yeah, it would only work from a machine on the same local subnet, but it _would_ give us some sort of method to get there.

Right now, if I want to go to Apex Local, I've got to get up, walk over the the Apex display unit, navigate to the net settings page, WRITE DOWN the IP address on a piece of paper, and walk it back to my computer.

Honestly, Apex Local is such a PAIN to access, I just don't use it. Couldn't tell you if DOS Calibration is available there, or not... since I can't get to it easily.

For the Apex development team, adding a link to the current IP of the Apex would be trivial. I've suggested it before... no response.