AARGH.. So mad...

[2000se]

Just went through a 45 day QT process with my new Carpenters Wrasse. As soon as I released him into the main display he obviously went straight to the bottom and hid in some rocks..

Not 5 mins later every crab, shrimp, and invert I have was munching down on the new source of food....Like literally, he was eating like a pig in QT. Had him in a 20G long just living it up. Healthy and all. 5 mins in the display -Then boom, dead. Wtttt....arrghh...

I just feel that when he went to hide, they ambushed him..

Salinity the same, temp the same.
The only thing can think is that maybe I didn't acclimated him as good as I should have and he died in DT. BUT I saw him swimming around as soon as put him in and I thought I'd turn out the lights to let him adjust to brighter lights, thats when he bee-lined to the rocks and perished..

So mad..

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Any other fish that are bullies in the tank? Itw not likelynthe crabs and snails killed the wrasse but more like they are just cleaning up after it died. Sucks to loose a new fish, it happens. I have a bully psuedo that has killed a few new additions. Maybe try an aclimation box.

 

[2000se]

Good question RE: Bullies.

So to answer your question, I have Reefer250 (~50G display) and I only have 1 fish in there. A clown that is like 4 yrs old. He's about 2.5 inches long. As soon as I release the wrasse, the clown immediately went to him but then realized it wasn't food and left to back to the other side of the tank where he hangs out. So, I would say no, he did not get bullied to death.



So to provide more details and ask more questions, I have:
2-Peppermint Shrimp
1-Bloodfire shrimp
10'ish- Hermits
1-Clownfish
a few snails

Here's where things get foggy for me.
I have some Florida Reef Rock from a well known reef rock supplier. I've had this rock now for the better part of 110 days . I QT'd it by itself for 80Days. Started a brand new tank with it. No fish present and to try to simply let it rest and try cleaning it from the hitchhikers.
I've been doing my best to out all of the bad hitchhikers. I do see a few small gorilla craps (the size of dime or nickels) that I can't get.
Some unknown count of some type of white and black brittle star's, and unfortunately a crap ton of tiny tiny (talking 1/8th inch baby pistol shrimp) . Was able to remove pistol shrimp parents before any fish went in at about day 50.

Even more detail - I had a flameback angel that was about the same age as the clown fish. Both fish have been with me since babies. They were doing fine as well in the tank. The flame like to sleep in the rocks as well. After about 2 weeks in the tank with the new rock, flame died and was being eaten as well.

The thing is, the clownfish is alive and well and doesn't hang out in the rocks..It's only things in the rocks that appear to be dying..

Do you think the brittle stars attacked the wrasse in the rocks and the hermits just jumped on? These white/black stripped brittles are living under the rocks. I see the arms kinda hanging out from the edges. I really have no clue. I guess sooo many questions..I just feel like any fish that feels like a crab or anything like that trying to attack it wold swim away a little or at least move away..I'm just perplexed.

 

[lmm1967]

those stars did not kill the wrasse.

Was it really only 5 minutes? A healthy fish just dieing in 5 minutes is very strange.

Are you sure you don't have a mantis shrimp or large fireworm or something like that?

Did the wrasse maybe kill himself because the sand isn't very deep and he banged his head when he tried to bury himself?

Those pistol shrimp from Tampa Bay rocks should not bother a fish.

 

[2000se]

Was it really only 5 minutes? A healthy fish just dieing in 5 minutes is very strange.

Pretty close yes. Maybe 8mins? He didn't go to the sand bed as much as he went into a crevice in the rock at the bottom of the tank.

 

[melanotaenia]

If the fish died within five minutes it would be next to impossible to claim that something attacked it and killed it that quickly in the rocks like an invert or the like, wrasse are a little more resilient than that, and that just seems too quick. There had to have been something that shocked him when introduced to your tank which caused his demise.

 

[2000se]

If the fish died within five minutes it would be next to impossible to claim that something attacked it and killed it that quickly in the rocks like an invert or the like, wrasse are a little more resilient than that, and that just seems too quick. There had to have been something that shocked him when introduced to your tank which caused his demise.

I want to believe you so I don't continuously worry about some random predator in my tank. Would the thoughts change if it were 10 mins instead? I just know I saw him swimming near the rocks when I placed him into the DT, and then when I turned out the lights and walked away, coming back a few mins later I was looking near the rocks I saw him swimming near and there was party of inverts eating. I guess it was simply a case of coincidence that he went in the DT, swam a bit and was being eaten 5 mins later. I guess just died.. I have no clue.

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

I would do a full test on qt water and dt water not just salinity and temp and see if anything is wildly different from the other, things like high nitrate differences can shock a fish, high ph difference also, just test everything you can test for in both tanks, even if they are both the same it will rule out water params from possible reasons.

 

[2000se]

I would do a full test on qt water and dt water not just salinity and temp and see if anything is wildly different from the other, things like high nitrate differences can shock a fish, high ph difference also, just test everything you can test for in both tanks, even if they are both the same it will rule out water params from possible reasons.

If I would have just thought a little harder on this I would have kept my QT up and running and could have tested the water there. rrrgh, Didn't think about nitrate/nitrite fluctuations could cause this. Sigh.. Always learn from failures in this hobby I guess.

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

If I would have just thought a little harder on this I would have kept my QT up and running and could have tested the water there. rrrgh, Didn't think about nitrate/nitrite fluctuations could cause this. Sigh.. Always learn from failures in this hobby I guess.

Don't beat yourself up about it mate, everybody here has made a mistake at some point, we are only human and its what we do.

 

[2000se]

Even more detail - I had a flameback angel that was about the same age as the clown fish. Both fish have been with me since babies. They were doing fine as well in the tank. The flame like to sleep in the rocks as well. After about 2 weeks in the tank with the new rock, flame died and was being eaten as well.

And what additional information does this provide? Just throwing everything out there before I try again to add another fish

 

[Tamberav]

I never acclimate any of my fish. If salinity is within two points they go in...never had a problem doing it this way. I am one of those float and release people.

Flashers wrasses can stress out easily from handling and capture...etc.

That being said I found I had a pest crab one day when watching my tank as a big claw came out from under a rock and snatched a fish eating food off the bottom. I had to chisel the crab out of the rock. Found he had a cave full of stolen macro...and snails he had been dining on. The fish he grabbed perished quickly from it's wounds.

 

[2000se]

So least assume for a moment that I do have a few (or many) smaller to medium size predators in my tank that are secretly killing my fish. I've only one fish left. I can do something with him. Would it be wise to (or) could I get a trigger fish or something equivalent and have him tear through the tank cleaning it of all these smaller predators ?

 

[melanotaenia]

I want to believe you so I don't continuously worry about some random predator in my tank. Would the thoughts change if it were 10 mins instead? I just know I saw him swimming near the rocks when I placed him into the DT, and then when I turned out the lights and walked away, coming back a few mins later I was looking near the rocks I saw him swimming near and there was party of inverts eating. I guess it was simply a case of coincidence that he went in the DT, swam a bit and was being eaten 5 mins later. I guess just died.. I have no clue.

And what additional information does this provide? Just throwing everything out there before I try again to add another fish

Do you have a red flashlight? You can examine the tank at night to see if there are any unwanted predators that come out.

 

[2000se]

Do you have a red flashlight? You can examine the tank at night to see if there are any unwanted predators that come out.

Good idea.. I will try. I will need to get said red light, but shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[tgrick]

You can also put food inside a net and bring it down to the bottom. Holding the food inside and net and also using the edge of the net to keep it down. Return back in about 20 mins and see if anything is going after the food. Mantis shrimp???

 

[ScottR]

If there were predators in the tank, they would also have taken out the other fish. 8 minutes in... I’d rule out predator immediately.

 

[tgrick]

I personally don't think it's a predator. I think it's gill flukes. When a fish dies that quickly it's what I look for.

 

[2000se]

I personally don't think it's a predator. I think it's gill flukes. When a fish dies that quickly it's what I look for.

Not sure. Would he still have if after 2 rounds of prazi-pro 5 days apart? During TTM I dosed Prazi. I also moved to QT tank after TTM for another 25-30 days. He showed no signs of distress and was eating like a champ. Just trying to understand .

Thanks for all the feedback!!

Personally, after all the thinking and ideas, I'm not sure it is predator either. I think it was more stress from being handled too much during the transfer to the DT as @Tamberav mentioned above. I had to chase him down in the QT and release him into a holding to far to move to DT. Then I had to grab him from the holding jar to release into DT. Maybe they're just a little delicate like that?

 

[EmdeReef]

Such a quick death could only occur due to a few
reasons such as:

- injury while handling, sometimes tough to spot
- toxin - unlikely as your other fish at ok, most common issue would be ammonia - presumably there’s no detectable ammonia?
- low oxygen - could be selectively affecting fish. Do you have good flow?
- temperature - any significant temp change between QT and DT?
- osmotic shock - are you absolutely sure your salinity was matched even though many fish tolerate swings pretty well there are no guarantees
- ph shock - less likely unless there was a large swing

A healthy wrasses is tool fast for any of the critters you describe. Nitrates and nitrites are not toxic in saltwater unless at extremely high concentrations so that’s unlikely an issue.

@HotRocks any thoughts?