About to cure my rock

[Davy Jones]

Hey Everyone. I am planning on curing my dry rock prior to my upcoming build (i typically just do the curing during the cycle process so this will be new for me!) I read quite a few threads but I was hoping to just get confirmation that I got the plan down pat!

Step 1. I want to do a bleach Cure to help remove any baked in organics.
1 gallon of unscented bleach to 10 gallons of TAP Water (I will use RO if needed but would prefer not to as i am going to do a 100% waterchange after 3 days and do it again for another 3 days) (no salt) Can i use tap water or is RO needed for this stage?

Step 2. Rinse all the pieces in tap water from the sink.

Step 3. place all the rock in a bin and fill with RO/DI water, a heater and a powerhead. Heat water to 80+ degrees to assist in removal of any organics. 100% waterchange after 1 week. (no salt)

Step 4. Place all rock in rodi Saltwater with heater and powerhead. Dump in bottled bacteria (dr tims one and only, kz zeobak, microbacter 7, biospira) and place Seed live rock in the bin as well (going to do 4 different sources of rock from local reefers. Basically doing 15lbs of rock to seed the display during this time. It will likely not be in the final aquascape however. I want maximum diversity as i dont want to deal with dinos ever again lol) 50% waterchange every week for 2-3 weeks. Do i want to feed the rock bin during this time to provide ammonia and begin the cycle as i am trying to seed the bacteria?

Step 5. Place rock in display, let cycle for ~2 weeks. (CONFIRM Cycle has started/completed) place frag rack with some corals from temporary tank into display (I have a tank thats been going for a while but not using any of hte rocks from this in the new display) If frags survive the first week or 2, move over the rest of the coral and small fish from the temp tank and observe.


My thought process is that the dry rock should be mostly free of organics, the bleach cure should remove what remains. The following weeks of curing allows for the rocks to release any phosphates/nitrates bound to the surface. Next the seeding phase should allow the rock to develop a healthy biofilm and bacteria presence. I may even dose pods during the latter half of this time so they can inhabit the rockwork without fear of any predators.

Ive had a couple tanks but still feel that i am a noob so please correct me on any of this If it is wrong or if there is a better process.

 

[ihavecrabs]

#1-3 - I used tap water for the bleach bath but after I allowed the rocks to fully dry (outside in the sun) and then they soaked in RODI water until beginning the cycle process. If you only rinse after the bleach bath, I would add a water conditioner to ensure removal of bleach residue.

#4 - I would allow the rock to cycle and once ammonia and nitrite are processing properly, I would add the live rock. If you add the live-rock too early, you will kill a lot of beneficial life on that rock due to the cycle. Bacteria will survive, but not much else potentially. I recommend dosing ammonium chrloride to begin your cycle and adding more once it is no longer readable. Once the tank can process 1ppm ammonia in 24 hours or less, I would add your live rock and ghost feed the tank lightly. There are many ways to be successful here and others may have a different process. Whichever way you decide to go, slow is better

#5 - You can do step #4 in your display too or move it over after. Up to you. What types of frags are you testing with?

Keep in mind, adding live rock from other reefers tanks (three of them as you mentioned) that pests can come over from their tanks as well. So if you are only starting with dry rock for this reason, it may be best to quarantine their incoming live rock before adding it to your system.

Good luck with your upcoming build!

 

[Davy Jones]

#1-3 - I used tap water for the bleach bath but after I allowed the rocks to fully dry (outside in the sun) and then they soaked in RODI water until beginning the cycle process. If you only rinse after the bleach bath, I would add a water conditioner to ensure removal of bleach residue.

#4 - I would allow the rock to cycle and once ammonia and nitrite are processing properly, I would add the live rock. If you add the live-rock too early, you will kill a lot of beneficial life on that rock due to the cycle. Bacteria will survive, but not much else potentially. I recommend dosing ammonium chrloride to begin your cycle and adding more once it is no longer readable. Once the tank can process 1ppm ammonia in 24 hours or less, I would add your live rock and ghost feed the tank lightly. There are many ways to be successful here and others may have a different process. Whichever way you decide to go, slow is better

#5 - You can do step #4 in your display too or move it over after. Up to you. What types of frags are you testing with?

Keep in mind, adding live rock from other reefers tanks (three of them as you mentioned) that pests can come over from their tanks as well. So if you are only starting with dry rock for this reason, it may be best to quarantine their incoming live rock before adding it to your system.

Good luck with your upcoming build!

Mostly starting with Dry as i dont have access to good live rock. I am aware of the pest dangers, but seeing as my last tank started with dry rock and ended up having bryopsis and dinoflagellets I figure id rather have the good stuff along with the bad. The tanks from local reefers i am grabbing from should be pretty pest free as well, they are up and running with sps (not a guarantee i know but still helps) so im not overly worried from that aspect.

 

[Water Dog]

What kind of dry rock will you be using... Pukani, BRS Reefsaver, Marco, Reef Cleaners?

 

[Davy Jones]

What kind of dry rock will you be using... Pukani, BRS Reefsaver, Marco, Reef Cleaners?

50lbs of reefcleaners, 15lbs of dry fiji and about 10 lbs of dry pukani.

 

[Water Dog]

I’ve used ReefCleaners before, a quick rinse is really all you’d need. It’s very clean with no phosphate uses that I’ve ever experienced. Pukani needs to be properly cured before use. I prefer multiple RODI soaks followed by several Lanthanum Chloride treatments (commercial strength SeaKlear) until the phosphate levels drop to reasonable levels. I prefer LC over acid as it is inherently safer IMO and doesn’t eat away any of the rock. Not knowing how dirty the dry Fiji is, I’d treat it and the Pukani in the same manner.

 

[DeniseAndy]

When using the bleach process or the first soaking in fresh water you described, it is not necessary to use ro/di. Just will add to cost. Beach dissipates very fast and will not be a factor if you do a couple water changes on the fresh stage (add some declorinator if you want). When you go to actually make the rock live, then use ro/di with salt to proper level. Bacteria is good to add and yes keep cycle going with fish food or similar. Even add pods a bit later.

One note, keep the rock covered during this whole process to black out. This helps keep algae growth down. If it has been seeded and cured properly, you should not see much of a cycle in the aquarium unless you add too much too fast.

 

[Davy Jones]

I’ve used ReefCleaners before, a quick rinse is really all you’d need. It’s very clean with no phosphate uses that I’ve ever experienced. Pukani needs to be properly cured before use. I prefer multiple RODI soaks followed by several Lanthanum Chloride treatments (commercial strength SeaKlear) until the phosphate levels drop to reasonable levels. I prefer LC over acid as it is inherently safer IMO and doesn’t eat away any of the rock. Not knowing how dirty the dry Fiji is, I’d treat it and the Pukani in the same manner.

Good to know on the Reef cleaners rock, and i appreciate the tip on the LC instead of acid.

When using the bleach process or the first soaking in fresh water you described, it is not necessary to use ro/di. Just will add to cost. Beach dissipates very fast and will not be a factor if you do a couple water changes on the fresh stage (add some declorinator if you want). When you go to actually make the rock live, then use ro/di with salt to proper level. Bacteria is good to add and yes keep cycle going with fish food or similar. Even add pods a bit later.

One note, keep the rock covered during this whole process to black out. This helps keep algae growth down. If it has been seeded and cured properly, you should not see much of a cycle in the aquarium unless you add too much too fast.

Good to know! and yes, the rock will be in a rubbermaid tote with the lid on so there will be no light on the rock during this process until it hits the display tank!

 

[mcarroll]

I would not do any of that nuclear-grade cleaning since it doesn't move you forward and things like phosphate on the rocks should not be a problem anyway.

IMO here's what I'd do.....assuming the rock is dead, dry but clean-looking.

1. No lights.
2. Put rock in the tank.
3. Fill with saltwater.
4. Install heaters.
5. Install flow.
6. Install protein skimmer.
7. If there's any way you can add some sand, dertitus, rock rubble, anything from a healthy seasoned tank, DO IT. (Just can't be photosynthetic.)
8. Wait for some bacteria and whatever else to populate the system....at least 2-3 weeks.
   
9. It may be worthwhile to assure that nitrates and phosphates don't totally bottom out during this period. Without lights on the tank I doubt this would become an issue, but still be aware.
10. After that period of waiting is over, begin a daily low-light schedule – around 15,000-30,000 lux at the surface
11. Populate the tank with some corals
12. Add some CUC.
13. If measured nutrient levels are zero or near-zero, then a small, modest feeding program should commence for the corals.
    Something that will stay afloat for long periods like ROE or baby brine shrimp would be ideal....don't go overboard as it will only take a SMALL amount of feeding to cover their needs.
    (At this stage, you'd ideally like your corals to be using up available nutrients from the water, so feeding is only a backup strategy.)
14. Wait for the addition of the corals to help mature the tank for another 3-4 weeks.
15. Remember you're part of the CUC and help them stay on top of any algae growth that comes with the added bio-load.

Something like that.

I wouldn't have any fish in it for at least a few months....and it's be nice for it to have a booming-healthy coral population when that happens. And of course when the time does comes for fish, they ought to be added slowly, over the course of at least days or weeks....not all at once.

 

[Davy Jones]

I would not do any of that nuclear-grade cleaning since it doesn't move you forward and things like phosphate on the rocks should not be a problem anyway.

IMO here's what I'd do.....assuming the rock is dead, dry but clean-looking.

1. No lights.
2. Put rock in the tank.
3. Fill with saltwater.
4. Install heaters.
5. Install flow.
6. Install protein skimmer.
7. If there's any way you can add some sand, dertitus, rock rubble, anything from a healthy seasoned tank, DO IT. (Just can't be photosynthetic.)
8. Wait for some bacteria and whatever else to populate the system....at least 2-3 weeks.
   
9. Begin a daily low-light schedule – around 15,000-30,000 lux at the surface
10. Populate the tank with some corals
11. Add some CUC.
12. If measured nutrient levels are zero or near-zero, then a small, modest feeding program should commence for the corals.
    Something that will stay afloat for long periods like ROE or baby brine shrimp would be ideal....don't go overboard as it will only take a SMALL amount of feeding to cover their needs.
    (At this stage, you'd ideally like your corals to be using up available nutrients from the water, so feeding is only a backup strategy.)
13. Wait for the addition of the corals to help mature the tank for another 3-4 weeks.
14. Remember you're part of the CUC and help them stay on top of any algae growth that comes with the added bio-load.

Something like that.

I wouldn't have any fish in it for at least a few months....and it's be nice for it to have a booming-healthy coral population when that happens. And of course when the time does comes for fish, they ought to be added slowly, over the course of at least days or weeks....not all at once.

This has pretty much been my method in the past. Just toss it in and let the rock cure/cycle in the tank. I was just hoping to jumpstart the cycle as i have a 34 gallon im shutting down to set this one up. All the fish and corals will eventually make its way over, but none of the rock. Got a bad caulerpa infection in the tank. Downsized from a 65 gallon and now upgrading to a custom 125 gallon

I have never however put coral in a tank before fish.. any reason why you do this?

 

[Water Dog]

While I’d agree that @mcarroll ‘s DT curing method would work for most types of dry rock, I would NOT use that method for dry Pukani. It is gorgeous porous rock. Within those pores lie a ton of dead matter. Put untreated dry Pukani in your DT and get ready for a myriad of issues down the road. People are recommending “nuclear-grade” treatment of dry Pukani because of first hand experience with the stuff.

 

[mcarroll]

People are recommending “nuclear-grade” treatment of dry Pukani because of first hand experience with the stuff.

I've never heard anyone mention doing anything like the "method" I freehanded into that list, but it's possible someone has done it or something very similar.

I'm not saying these cleaning steps can't be useful in some circumstances – sometimes you have to do what you have to do. But it is true that none of these "nuclear grade" cleaning steps guarantee success or even problem-free rock. (Run some searches on either of the two big dino threads to see evidence. In particular, all the attempted "restarts" documented on twilliard's defunct-but-humongous dino thread.)

Organics, bound phosphates, etc that we could find on dead rock that is apparently clean are only problematic if we create conditions favorable to problems. The list I made should get someone around those conditions. With those conditions avoided, available nutrients ought to be positive in their impact instead of being a worry.

If you're saying someone really did try my list and really did still end up with problems, then I'd say the case in question is worth applying more scrutiny to in order to find out "what happened". (Link? Contact?)

The first guess at an explantion would be that shortcuts were applied to some or all stages and/or that stages were done out of order and steps to remove nutrients from the system may have been taken....but other stuff happens....we'd need first-hand details.

The bottom line is that if you add major livestock (i.e. fish) or turn your lights on before you "liven up" your dead rock and get it at least somewhat matured, you can expect disappointment of some kind....probably involving a bloom of something you didn't want to bloom.

The presence or lack of detritus on/in the rocks or excess nutrients in the water does not have to change things very much. As the rock matures – which available nutrients should help with – the tank becomes more and more stable. It matters less and less what you do in terms of livestock and food/nutrient changes as time goes on.

I'm rambling...

 

[mcarroll]

This has pretty much been my method in the past. Just toss it in and let the rock cure/cycle in the tank. I was just hoping to jumpstart the cycle as i have a 34 gallon im shutting down to set this one up. All the fish and corals will eventually make its way over, but none of the rock. Got a bad caulerpa infection in the tank. Downsized from a 65 gallon and now upgrading to a custom 125 gallon

I have never however put coral in a tank before fish.. any reason why you do this?

Of course! I may have omitted some steps, but none of the steps I listed are very skippable.

In a nutshell, corals can proactively help to establish a healthy biom of microbes in a tank. They are also capable of using all kinds of nutrients – from "food" to detritus to dissolved nutrients – to grow, something that's nice in a new tank that won't have much capacity to handle excess nutrients.

The way to jump start the cycle is to reuse your old tank's water and transfer as much sand and detritus from the old tank as you're able to. Also, get some water, detritus, sand, etc, from other healthy tanks you have access to. Can you get a nice scoop of bottom-muck from the LFS's rock tub? Macro algae is likely to host "pest-ier" microbes like dino's, so I'd make that addition last when everything else has had plenty of time to take over available spaces.

So, I would still follow the steps, but if you have "lots" of good bio-material that can make the transfer, you ought to be able to shorten the maturing time. The list mentions this, but kinda assumes you'll have none....so take this into account with time frames.

 

[Water Dog]

Like I said, I absolutely agree with your in tank curing method for dry rocks like ReefCleaners, Marco and BRS Reefsaver... just not dry for Pukani. People are recommending these extreme “nuclear-grade” steps based on experience with this specific type of rock. These are not so called “short cuts” to get a tank set up faster. Pukani is so porous, that there are literally chunks of dead sponges and inverts entombed in the interior of the rock. Hence people calling for bleach baths to get rid of the dried encrusted organics trapped inside the rock. Even after getting rid of the dried organics with bleach, there are massive amounts of bound phosphates in the rock itself. There is huge multi-page thread on RC dated from early 2011 to late 2017 dealing with how to properly treat Pukani. There is a very valid reason that it is not recommended to cure this type of rock in your DT and it is based on years of collective wisdom and experience.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2049855

 

[mcarroll]

I'll check out the link, but I'm not suggesting anything outside the realm of biology, just some slightly out of the ordinary procedures to follow. Did anyone there really do all the stuff I listed?

 

[mcarroll]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2049855

When he says "Pukani Rock" in the opening post are we supposed to assume that it's dry rock, or does that matter? (Reading...)

 

[Water Dog]

This is what we’re referring to when specifically discussing Pukani dry rock...

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-pukani-dry-live-rock-sold-by-the-pound.html

 

[mcarroll]

So far there's nobody doing anything remotely like what I said....but still reading.

While I finish, is anyone here familiar with composting? (i.e. what it takes to successfully break down organic matter)

 

[Water Dog]

I guess my follow up question would be, have you ever tried your method with untreated dry Pukani rock? Because if you did, you would know that if you put dry Pukani in your DT with no treatment, in 24 hours, you’d get the darkest, most foul smelling brown water with about 3” to 6” of mud/sludge on the bottom of your tank... ask me how I know.

 

[mcarroll]

4 pages in and it's a lantham chloride tutorial if anything...nobody is doing or even mentioning natural approaches at all.

The closest so far is someone saying (paraphrased): "What am I supposed to do, wait 6 months? That sucks."

That acknowledges the natural approach, but in a purely dismissive manner.

These folks sound like they would have algae and phosphate issues whether they used dry rock or not. (Notably the OP fixed his issue with lanthanum chloride vs the other options.)

(And I see where all the dino sufferers came from now....."dry rock heck".)

Still reading, but does that thread get any better?

the darkest, most foul smelling brown water with about 3” to 6” of mud/sludge on the bottom of your tank... ask me how I know.

Ew. That's about the worst new-rock story I've heard. ;Yuck

If you're telling me that your "sludge rock" looked visibly clean before you put it in, I could need to see pictures. ;Photogenic Maybe the rock was scuzzier than you remember!