Absolute Distress! Algae is breaking my WILL!! Help please

[Brew12]

Ok, well so now what? Just stay the course for now right? Get my phosphates up and feed less right. Go that, and added my clean up crew. Getting my Fuge going again.
Seems that everyone fears this algae type. Anything else I should be doing? I see that rtparty recommended raising my nitrates a little higher and adding UV Sterilizer.

Those are the steps I would recommend. Getting PO4 up to shift growth from dino's to algae. Get the fuge going to grow the algae. I would treat the nitrates as optional for now.

It will take time for the algae to take over and start growing. Be patient!

 

[rtparty]

Good news is you're dealing with what I was. Raising nutrients will help initially but make sure you have a sterilizer on hand and ready to go. If you don't, they come back ticked off at you! Lol

The sterilizer basically wiped mine out overnight. I will continue running the sterilizer since there can be cysts left behind that will bloom again. The sterilizer should mitigate this and not let the dinos take hold again.

I went with the cheapest route I could to make sure it would work. Jebao UV sterilizer and Jebao DC pump. The sterilizer has been a joke to get working properly and not leak. The pump seems to be solid so far. I would spend extra on the sterilizer personally. Get a decent brand with a good rep. I would use the Jebao pump again though and I'm not a Jebao fan. Make sure you get close to 1 watt per 2 gallons of tank if you can.

 

[Beardo]

I agree with the recommendations already given:
Maintain phosphates >1.0
Nitrates at least 5-10 ppm
UV sterilizer 1 watt per every 2 - 2.5 gallons with slow flow.
Run carbon to deal with the toxins released from dino die off.

As bad as ostreopsis are, I have found properly sized UV to pretty effective against them.

Like I said in previous post, you may have a second type of dinos lurking as well, which may or may not be susceptible to UV. Good news is that maintaining nutrients should help take care of those as well.

 

[Antlrman]

it all sounds very do'able to me. i read an article from reefkeeping.com on dino's. Lots of talk of raising ph above 8.3 to combat dino's. I maintain around 8..03-8.2 so thought I would try to raise above 8.3 to help.

I have a lot of healthy sps frags growing as well as some very high end ones, does anyone think after I get all this above completed and stable that i should do a black out period? Or does that risk my corals?

 

[Antlrman]

So I have a 220 Oceanic Reef Ready with 75 gal fuge. Quite a bit of Live rock displacement. As well as sump displacement. I would guess my actual water volume to be 200-220 gal of water.

What size UV is recommended? I have read a 40 wt UV is sufficient to run a 300 gal tank. but to run at 1 watt per 2 gal im up there at least 100wt. Thoughts?

 

[Beardo]

it all sounds very do'able to me. i read an article from reefkeeping.com on dino's. Lots of talk of raising ph above 8.3 to combat dino's. I maintain around 8..03-8.2 so thought I would try to raise above 8.3 to help.

I have a lot of healthy sps frags growing as well as some very high end ones, does anyone think after I get all this above completed and stable that i should do a black out period? Or does that risk my corals?

I tried the elevated pH myself going to 8.75 for 2 months followed my another month at 8.6. This did not take care of my dinos though it did look better for awhile.

Blackouts make the tank look better for a few days but dinos are still there and come right back. I tried it multiple times from 3 up to 8 days. A few days never hurt my corals though.

 

[Beardo]

So I have a 220 Oceanic Reef Ready with 75 gal fuge. Quite a bit of Live rock displacement. As well as sump displacement. I would guess my actual water volume to be 200-220 gal of water.

What size UV is recommended? I have read a 40 wt UV is sufficient to run a 300 gal tank. but to run at 1 watt per 2 gal im up there at least 100wt. Thoughts?

Just to share my experience on UV sizing. I installed a 57 watt UV on a 240 gallon tank to help fight dinos and then later on a 270g when I upgraded. It did not take care of them and I continued to struggle. As a last resort I upgraded to a 114 watt unit and within a week Ostreopsis, Coolia and Prorocentrum dinos were gone.
You "may" be able to get by with an 80 watt unit but I wouldn't go any smaller.

 

[Antlrman]

I am thinking Smart UV 40 watt from BRS paired with a Syncra Silent 3.0 for 714 gph flow.

 

[Antlrman]

Just to share my experience on UV sizing. I installed a 57 watt UV on a 240 gallon tank to help fight dinos and then later on a 270g when I upgraded. It did not take care of them and I continued to struggle. As a last resort I upgraded to a 114 watt unit and within a week Ostreopsis, Coolia and Prorocentrum dinos were gone.
You "may" be able to get by with an 80 watt unit but I wouldn't go any smaller.

Ok,
I just posted my selection prior to seeing your post. Sorry about that. Needed to refresh my browser. So you think doubling the size recommended from the Manufacture would be smarter in the long run? Does the brand matter on the effectiveness of the unit?

 

[dansreef]

Where in Illinois are you? Just curious.

I have battled the dang dinos before as well. I did everything you can think of... dosed everything you can think of.... The only thing that worked. There is no silver bullet. No magic solution.... oh... and there are thousands of different types of dinos... some are just nastier than others. I had a couple of different varieties..... I let me tank go dirty... Nitrates and Phosphates allowed to rise. I allowed hair algae and cyanobacteria to take over the tank. I added pods like crazy... All of these things outcompeted the dinos in my system. I left it that way for weeks. I took samples and looked under the microscope.... I eventually saw more algae and microfauna in the samples than I saw dinos. That is when things turned around. I eventually saw dinos fade away... I cleaned up the tank...lowering nutrients.... and siphoning out the cyano and other algae. Tangs and Rabbit fish will help you too. I suggest you not use chemicals to clean the nuisance algae out...

The trick for me... I have been free of a dino outbreak for months... is to find a balance. Phosphates between 0.5 and .02 tested via hana checker. and nitrates 3ish... tested via red sea. I still have algae in the tank. I also have some cyano in the tank. I keep it in check... I would also bet I still have dinos in the tank... I would further bet most reef tanks have dinos in them. But... the dinos are not left uncontested in the tanks. There is microfauna and algae competing with it. When things get out of whack.... you see a bloom.

Good luck with your fight. Many of us have been there.

 

[Antlrman]

Where in Illinois are you? Just curious.

I have battled the dang dinos before as well. I did everything you can think of... dosed everything you can think of.... The only thing that worked. There is no silver bullet. No magic solution.... oh... and there are thousands of different types of dinos... some are just nastier than others. I had a couple of different varieties..... I let me tank go dirty... Nitrates and Phosphates allowed to rise. I allowed hair algae and cyanobacteria to take over the tank. I added pods like crazy... All of these things outcompeted the dinos in my system. I left it that way for weeks. I took samples and looked under the microscope.... I eventually saw more algae and microfauna in the samples than I saw dinos. That is when things turned around. I eventually saw dinos fade away... I cleaned up the tank...lowering nutrients.... and siphoning out the cyano and other algae. Tangs and Rabbit fish will help you too. I suggest you not use chemicals to clean the nuisance algae out...

The trick for me... I have been free of a dino outbreak for months... is to find a balance. Phosphates between 0.5 and .02 tested via hana checker. and nitrates 3ish... tested via red sea. I still have algae in the tank. I also have some cyano in the tank. I keep it in check... I would also bet I still have dinos in the tank... I would further bet most reef tanks have dinos in them. But... the dinos are not left uncontested in the tanks. There is microfauna and algae competing with it. When things get out of whack.... you see a bloom.

Good luck with your fight. Many of us have been there.

Im in Big Rock. Not too far from you. This is a very difficult stage to deal with. My tank for years was so beautiful and everything was growing like weeds. So frustrating trying to get it figured out. Did you ever try a large UV sterilizer like others are suggesting? I am going to follow through with raising my po4 and I think my nitrates are good. My PH could come a little which wouldnt hurt anything, only beneficial to everything i think. Im done with treating chemicals to control the algae. Not doing anything anyway so I agree there. But if the UV will help,, I already have 10k wrapped up in this tank so I am not afraid to invest in a good UV if it could do the trick. Im feeling like even if it doesnt eliminate them it would help and be beneficial to the tank in the long run. Just need to figure out which UV to buy and the size. I appreciate all the feedback!

 

[Antlrman]

Just to share my experience on UV sizing. I installed a 57 watt UV on a 240 gallon tank to help fight dinos and then later on a 270g when I upgraded. It did not take care of them and I continued to struggle. As a last resort I upgraded to a 114 watt unit and within a week Ostreopsis, Coolia and Prorocentrum dinos were gone.
You "may" be able to get by with an 80 watt unit but I wouldn't go any smaller.

What 114 watt uv did you buy? what pump?

 

[Beardo]

Ok,
I just posted my selection prior to seeing your post. Sorry about that. Needed to refresh my browser. So you think doubling the size recommended from the Manufacture would be smarter in the long run? Does the brand matter on the effectiveness of the unit?

I'm just basing this on my experience and the sizes others have used and been successful with, but I would try to stick with the 2 - 2.5 gallons per watt. An 80 watt unit would put you at 2.5 -2.75 based on 200 - 220 gallons of actual water volume. Not to discount the manufacturer recommendations but their sizing may be based on smaller organisms than dinos.
I personally believe there are different efficiencies with different brands due to contact times and distance from the source.

 

[Beardo]

What 114 watt uv did you buy? what pump?

I went with the AquaUV and plumbed it into my return with a bypass around it so I can remove the UV to service it if needed. They are pricey for sure but a good quality unit.

Dinos have been so frustrating. I started dealing with them back in January of 2015 and have just recently gotten the upper hand. Between them and all the treatments I tried, my corals have pretty much been devastated.
Good luck with your battle.

 

[dansreef]

Im in Big Rock. Not too far from you. This is a very difficult stage to deal with. My tank for years was so beautiful and everything was growing like weeds. So frustrating trying to get it figured out. Did you ever try a large UV sterilizer like others are suggesting? I am going to follow through with raising my po4 and I think my nitrates are good. My PH could come a little which wouldnt hurt anything, only beneficial to everything i think. Im done with treating chemicals to control the algae. Not doing anything anyway so I agree there. But if the UV will help,, I already have 10k wrapped up in this tank so I am not afraid to invest in a good UV if it could do the trick. Im feeling like even if it doesnt eliminate them it would help and be beneficial to the tank in the long run. Just need to figure out which UV to buy and the size. I appreciate all the feedback!

I did not put a UV sterilizer on my tank.... and still haven't.... with no plans to do so. Will it help. Maybe. I think in a reef environment it could remove stuff that is beneficial to the corals...but that is an opinion and not based on any facts. The one thing I do have is a algae scrubber. I bought an oversized scrubber from Joey at 302 aquatics. It did not help with dinos as far as I know. I had it before, during and since. But... the scrubber did become a place where algae grew nicely and I saw microfauna return in mass to my system. I think the investment in the scrubber has and continues to pay dividends for me. One note... don't over size it like I did. Get something appropriate for your total volume. My scrubber has kept my nutrients low... and so I have to feed a lot and have a lot of fish in the tank. Otherwise... the tank goes into starvation mode... corals fade... microfauna dies off... and the opportunity for Dinos to bloom.

BTW... my PH varies from 8.25 - 8.42 on any given moment.... based on Apex Fusion tracking. I think the key is to find a way to lessen the swings up and down. The major swings when A/C or the Furnace is on....and windows are shut....still happen. The variation above is through the course of the day... and light cycle. I also don't allow my temp to swing much... maybe .5 a degree at any time. I run two large heaters... and have them programmed to keep the temp from dropping off....and rising in a heat cycle.

When I first got into the hobby..... many many years ago.... someone told me all tanks need to find a balance..in order to thrive. Every time you add a fish... a plant... corals... inverts... it throws things off a bit. Every time you change a parameter...something else changes too... Find a place where you are not adding a ton of chemicals and where you can find stability. A challenge for sure.... something I still struggle with. But.... if you can find it.... let it be. I had another long time reefer tell me to keep my hands out of the water and stop messing with my tanks.... lol... easier said than done. Btw... I posted this on another thread.... I have a bunch of tanks. Some of the most successful tanks I had... were the ones I neglected. All I did was feed the fish and topoff the tank. I didn't do water changes, dosings, I didn't change the t-5 bulbs... for like years... That tanks... grew all sorts of softies, lps...and much of the sps.... that I had. They were kind of ugly... and they changed over time... but man they grew stuff like crazy. I let it go... mainly because I was busy with my new bigger tank / system.

Is there any wisdom there... Maybe. For me... I am really trying to stop chasing parameters... stop putting chemicals in to solve problems. For now.... it is working.

 

[Ashish Patel]

There seems to be alot of good advice here but too much for me to read b4 putting in my 2 cents.

1. I would remove your sand - its full of junk and surely feeding your algae issues especially with the low nutrient reading. Which is a false reading anyways your algae is taking the Phosphates before registering. You can clean it out and add it back once the algae problem is gone!
2. Add a good size UV filter. I did not have the budget for a fancy one so got a $70 jebao 36Watt one - Does the job well and I use it as needed.
3. I ordered a long coral feeder tube of amazon (20" baster).. It doubles for blowing detritus from the sump, sand, and rock. Most recently I used it to blow of nuisance snotty algae from my rockwork (possible dinos). I have not see anymore reappear once in suspension they get zapped by the UV. I can use this and get to every nook and cranky of the tank and it works amazing.
4. If possible get a chaeto reactor, scrubber, and refugium. This will outcompete you tanks algae especially in a controlled environment. If you run it 18+ hours when the lights are off in the main display the cheato will consume much of nutrient before the lights take off..
5. If you can't blow some of the stubborn algae get a good brush and scrap the rock.. As the algae population dimensions it will slowly stop reproducing and eventually just become manageable with few clean up crew.
6. If you have too much rock in the back consider relocating to the sump. More rock = more surface area for algae and nutrients! less is more in the tank is good especially when dealing with algae. I do believe having minimal rock in the tank helps but having algae free rock in the sump also helps since sponges can harvest this rock.

Don't give up your tank is this old now you just need to find the nutrient sink, remove it and do a few waterchange and your good to go!

 

[Antlrman]

Sounds good to me. Im done with the chemicals, for months now my tank has seem to be very stable with all parameters. But nothing is helping the algae. So I do know I need to change something. but Im going to try to add beneficial elements as directed, clean up crew(I am realizing now the toxic side effects of dino's on my snails! 20% are dead already it seems), algae back in the sump, raise po4 and ph slightly, etc.

I did just purchase an Aqua UV 114wt to give it a try. Either way we will see. Im curious to the outcome. Steady the course and see what takes place over the next month. I will posting back to this thread regularly to keep tabs on the tank.

I really appreciate and value all the helpful folks on here!

 

[john472]

CUC is a band aid. Please consider, cut back food. possible 50% water change via sand vac. First watch the video "dropping the bomb". then use Dr tims waste away after to make sure the bacteria didnt take too much of a hit. Reduce lights to either 6 hours a day or lower over all intensity. consider if you have a sump getting a cheto reactor. If you dont have a sump then try mollies as a CUC(not sure if you have a fish that will eat them if so then ignore.)

 

[rtparty]

Water changes are a bad idea with dinos. There seems to be something that helps them flourish. Plus you are removing nutrients that you are trying to raise.

With Ostreopsis, a UV sterilizer seems to be the best option for most of us so far. I just barely did my first water change in over a month so I could vacuum the sand and pull out some hair algae. I won't change water again for at least a month unless something pops up that forces me to.

 

[Antlrman]

I wanted to send an update here a month later. I really have made a lot of progress in the past month. All the algae on my live rock is eliminated. Still having Dino issues in my sand though.
Water is stable at:
Alk 7.8 (slowly rising)
Cal 380 (slowly rising)
ph 8.13
temp 78.2
orp 422
No3 10
Po4 .10-.15
mag 1380 (slowly rising)

Here is what I took from everyone in this post what I followed through with:
*I cut way back on feeding 3 cubes frozen every other day
**stopped adding all algae control chemicals
*did a 4 day black out
*Added a 114 wt AquaUV sterilizer
*Raised my po4 slightly
*Couple 35 gal water changes
*Recently started up my refugium again with cheato, I'm currently waiting on Caulerpa to add

My overall coral growth has exploded, that is why I think my calcium and alk has been lower than usual. trying to constantly test and adjust the DOS once a week to try to slowly get them stable at higher levels. But I am really trying to not rush anything and take everything super slow as to keep the system as stable as possible.

So all in all I am very pleased with my current situation. I am not sure what to do with the sand algae issue yet. Gonna just leave things as is for a while and see if the UV sterilizer slowly does away with it. But I am not sure on the path this take for now. below are updated pics. The tank is double sided through the wall and this is only one side. I didn't want to overrun the post with too many pics.