Acans dying other LPS not thriving

[nkyreef]

My first Acan I bought from a frag swap about 9 months ago. I can't remember when it started to deteriorate. My second Acan I bought from a LFS about 3 weeks ago and by day two did not look well. I've tried every flow/light placement available. Other LPS don't really seem to thrive either. I have some growers (Sunny D's, Yuma's, Hammer) but there is a distinct lack of polyp extension both during the day and night. What could possibly be going wrong?

Parameters
Salinity: 1.026 (RO water)
Temp: 78.0 - 78.3
Kessil A360: 38% max intensity
Alk: 8.82 dKH (Red Sea); 10.08 (Salifert) ??Difference??
Cal: 445 ppm (Red Sea)
Mag: 1460 (Red Sea)
NO3: 10 ppm (Salifert)
PO4: 0.36 (Red Sea)

 

[leahfiish]

Do you have anything that might be picking on them like angels, butterflies, filefish, tobys, peppermint shrimp?

 

[3mm3]

Nothing sticking out with those numbers.
Is your alk stable or do you have alk swings?
Like mentioned maybe something picking at them?
I'd throw a bag of good carbon in the system for that just in case measure.
Also keep them in lower flow and light and let them stay put.

 

[nkyreef]

Do you have anything that might be picking on them like angels, butterflies, filefish, tobys, peppermint shrimp?

I suspected and removed a peppermint shrimp about 3 weeks back but no improvement with the Acans. All the other inhabitants are reef safe- no other pickers.

 

[nkyreef]

Nothing sticking out with those numbers.
Is your alk stable or do you have alk swings?
Like mentioned maybe something picking at them?
I'd throw a bag of good carbon in the system for that just in case measure.
Also keep them in lower flow and light and let them stay put.

Even though I do dose 2 part I have in the past had small alk swings week to week. I've tried to keep my alkalinity levels near 10 dKH so I've dosed small amounts to compensate.

9/18 = 10.02 dKH
9/10 = 10.4 dKH (after 10mL Alk dosed)
9/8 = 9.76 dKH (after 10mL Alk dosed)
9/4 = 9.44 dKH (after water change)
9/3 = 9.12 dKH (before water change)
8/28 = 10.24 dKH

In trying to get the alkalinity levels stable I found that I have to dose 2:1 Alk-Cal.

 

[leahfiish]

Too much flow maybe?

 

[dealseer]

Nothing sticking out with those numbers.
Is your alk stable or do you have alk swings?
Like mentioned maybe something picking at them?
I'd throw a bag of good carbon in the system for that just in case measure.
Also keep them in lower flow and light and let them stay put.

What is considered "good carbon"?

 

[SashimiTurtle]

10dKH is a little high. Try lowering to 8, and keep it stable. Do you hand dose or use a pump... a dosing pump will help keep your levels more stable. It'll dose the same amount at the same time every day, even while you are sleeping or at work.

 

[DSC reef]

There's some alk swinging going on. Try to let it fall a bit. 9dkh will work with your nutrients. Stability will be key though. I can tell when the alk creeps at 9.5 by looking at the LPS in the tank. What size tank is it, how often and how much are you doing water changes?

 

[Dsnakes]

They do like some nutrients, but that doesn't seem to be the problem from your numbers. Do you spot feed them? My acans are pigs, and I think they benefit from 1-2 feedings a week. I try and get a brine shrimp in each head on my smaller frags.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

There's some alk swinging going on. Try to let it fall a bit. 9dkh will work with your nutrients. Stability will be key though. I can tell when the alk creeps at 9.5 by looking at the LPS in the tank. What size tank is it, how often and how much are you doing water changes?

Also what salt are you using?

 

[nkyreef]

Too much flow maybe?

Could be. It's weird though. When i saw it at the LFS in their frag tank it looked as though it was getting a good amount of flow. Polyps were out and looked happy. It's not happy now unfortunately. I have moved it to a place in the tank with the least amount of flow and light.

 

[nkyreef]

10dKH is a little high. Try lowering to 8, and keep it stable. Do you hand dose or use a pump... a dosing pump will help keep your levels more stable. It'll dose the same amount at the same time every day, even while you are sleeping or at work.

I raised it because I read that it could help my pH (it's mostly low because of no windows open and running the ac). I do have BRS dosing pumps set up with my Apex. 10mL/day calcium and 11mL/day alkalinity. It seemed my system (around 50 gallons total) was not balanced and was using more alk than calcium. I'll knock that back down to get closer to 8-9 dKH.

 

[nkyreef]

There's some alk swinging going on. Try to let it fall a bit. 9dkh will work with your nutrients. Stability will be key though. I can tell when the alk creeps at 9.5 by looking at the LPS in the tank. What size tank is it, how often and how much are you doing water changes?

42 gallon cube DT with a sump. Total volume around 50 gallon. I do an 8 gallon water change every week using Reef Crystals. It seems the consensus here is to get the Alk number down.

 

[nkyreef]

They do like some nutrients, but that doesn't seem to be the problem from your numbers. Do you spot feed them? My acans are pigs, and I think they benefit from 1-2 feedings a week. I try and get a brine shrimp in each head on my smaller frags.

I do target feed Reef Roids twice a week but have never tried mysis or anything. Unfortunately my Acans have looked pretty pathetic and probably couldn't accept anything of substance.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Are your corals even eating? 0.36 po4 seems awfully high to me. Are you using RO water or RODI water?

 

[Jongalt26]

I have 14 acan variations of acans. The main reasons i've found that they retract are low alk then (high alk + very low po4) then high nutrients. This is assuming the placement is correct and you've seen them fluffy before they retracted.
If the acan never opened up for you then placement can definitely be an issue along with water parameters. The reason i mentioned the number of acans earlier is that each one required a different placement in my tank (60x24x24 w/ 2 radion g4 pros and 4 t-5 bulbs). Some had to be on the sand bed, others had to be at the top of my rockwork. Trying to find the placement was a bit challenging but when placed properly they'll grow super fluffy over time. One thing i found is that they have to be left in one spot for a couple of days. If they are fluffier than the day before then it's a good spot.

So assuming the acan never opened then it could be the water parameters and placement.
Your phosphates are high. When do you take your PO4 test? I recommend tracking it over a few days at roughly the same time and definitely take the test before you feed the tank. (I was wondering why i was getting readings at .1 sometimes and .04 others, found out that it was testing before vs after feeding)

If po4 remains high, i'd recommend doing a wc then using an export method. Are you running a fuge with chaeto? If not that's a good start or an ATS - algae turf scubber (which is what i prefer). And while GFO is a good contender i'd recommend kalkwasser in your situation. BRS has good videos on methods for adding it to your top off or using a drip. I preferred a KW reactor and doser. The KW will not only help precipitate phosphates it will help stabilize kalk & alk. Be sure to track PO4 as it declines and keep the rate to roughly .03 ppm loss per day max. If you get to .03 ppm and lower PO4 then your alk has to be below 9 dkh or a lot of corals will get ticked off.

Nitrates are maybe just a bit high. Not necessarily 'too high' but if it were me i'd try getting them to around 5ppm or so.

Just to verify, you have calibration solution for your refractometer or salinity meter?

There's a big difference between your red sea test and your salifert test which is disconcerting. I just found out tonight that theres a 1 dkh difference between my hanna and my red sea tests which caused ticked off corals while i dialed in a new calc reactor.
In your case i would say that 10.1 dkh may be a bit high however 8.8 may be spot on. I'd check your syringe for accuracy and the amount of water added to the vials and track down why there's a difference. I have to borrow a friends salifert kit to verify that my red sea is the one that's accurate over the hanna.

I hope that helps.

 

[nkyreef]

Are your corals even eating? 0.36 po4 seems awfully high to me. Are you using RO water or RODI water?

That was one of the questions I've been asking myself. Nutrients are high but little to no evidence of eating. I use RO water but I do not have a DI filter. Maybe that's something I can get on order today.

 

[nkyreef]

I have 14 acan variations of acans. The main reasons i've found that they retract are low alk then (high alk + very low po4) then high nutrients. This is assuming the placement is correct and you've seen them fluffy before they retracted.
If the acan never opened up for you then placement can definitely be an issue along with water parameters. The reason i mentioned the number of acans earlier is that each one required a different placement in my tank (60x24x24 w/ 2 radion g4 pros and 4 t-5 bulbs). Some had to be on the sand bed, others had to be at the top of my rockwork. Trying to find the placement was a bit challenging but when placed properly they'll grow super fluffy over time. One thing i found is that they have to be left in one spot for a couple of days. If they are fluffier than the day before then it's a good spot.

So assuming the acan never opened then it could be the water parameters and placement.
Your phosphates are high. When do you take your PO4 test? I recommend tracking it over a few days at roughly the same time and definitely take the test before you feed the tank. (I was wondering why i was getting readings at .1 sometimes and .04 others, found out that it was testing before vs after feeding)

If po4 remains high, i'd recommend doing a wc then using an export method. Are you running a fuge with chaeto? If not that's a good start or an ATS - algae turf scubber (which is what i prefer). And while GFO is a good contender i'd recommend kalkwasser in your situation. BRS has good videos on methods for adding it to your top off or using a drip. I preferred a KW reactor and doser. The KW will not only help precipitate phosphates it will help stabilize kalk & alk. Be sure to track PO4 as it declines and keep the rate to roughly .03 ppm loss per day max. If you get to .03 ppm and lower PO4 then your alk has to be below 9 dkh or a lot of corals will get ****** off.

Nitrates are maybe just a bit high. Not necessarily 'too high' but if it were me i'd try getting them to around 5ppm or so.

Just to verify, you have calibration solution for your refractometer or salinity meter?

There's a big difference between your red sea test and your salifert test which is disconcerting. I just found out tonight that theres a 1 dkh difference between my hanna and my red sea tests which caused ****** off corals while i dialed in a new calc reactor.
In your case i would say that 10.1 dkh may be a bit high however 8.8 may be spot on. I'd check your syringe for accuracy and the amount of water added to the vials and track down why there's a difference. I have to borrow a friends salifert kit to verify that my red sea is the one that's accurate over the hanna.

I hope that helps.

I typically would give it about 3-5 days to determine placement. If it didn't look good I'd relocate. For the most recent acan I moved it up and it retracted significantly so I moved it back down the next day.

For PO4 testing I typically will test the day after a w/c and also try not to use Reef Roids the same day. I do feed in the evenings so I try to wait a couple of hours before testing. Historically the PO4 result has been 0.16 ppm. This is the first time it's tested higher.

Filter floss and protein skimmer are my main filtration tools. I do have a DIY chaeto reactor that is growing algae well. I added that to an existing mini carbon/GFO reactor to help with high nutrients (although it's off right now because my return pump can't handle the additional load on the manifold).

My ATO container when low is filled with an unknown amount of water so it's difficult to determine how much kalkwasser to add. It's why I've never used it.

I do use a refractometer. I should probably take it to the LFS and compare mine with their device for testing.

Thanks for the informative post.

 

[Jimbo662]

I'm assuming they're all on the bottom. How deep is your tank and how high is the light above the water? Have you tested the lighting with a par meter?