Acclimating a Kuiter's Leopard Wrasse

[cancun]

Thanks, glad you like it. Midwest Custom Aquarium made it... under $1500 yet! I thought it was a nice price anyway. Here's a few more pics. And my other 2 wrasses i got thru LA last week, playin hide-and-seek the first night.

Looks really cool!!!! Mine is the Red Sea Reefer 750.....so not custom....that price isn't bad at all though for your tank!!! Can't wait to see your new Wrasses!!!

 

[Earl Karl]

So after Earl Karl's input and the messages sent from others, I have responses. Earl, i felt that in asking for additional acclimation and early care advice 4 days before the fish arrives was showing preparation. I could wait a half year, but then I'm adding her to a tank with more food competition and more fish with territory and temperament that might stress her when right now she'd be top fish with a fairy wrasse buddy going in at the same time. But I appreciate that I've received a lot of good input in both directions to best prepare. It allows me to know exactly what to do, what to avoid, what to perhaps add now or what to pick up before then. It has changed my plans for Sunday now... I will be going to my LFS an hour away to pick up some live black worms and brine shrimp for her. So yes I understand that adding a Leopard Wrasse at any time is difficult due to their poor shipping history and getting it through stress enough to eat. I only have one LFS within 60 miles of me and they dont mess with Leopards...and if they did then it would have to go through an extra shipping stress and acclimation situation 2 weeks after they received it that way. It might get harrassed or sick at the shop as well. So online isn't necessarily my best bet, but its my only bet. I realize that ordering thru Live Aquaria (or any overnight shipping) adds additional stress. I also understand many of you quarantine. I have a friend who owns and operates an aquarium maintenance business. He's coming over TUE morning for the acclimation (and some other care/maintenance stuff to do). He says he doesnt quarantine unless he sees something glaring or necessary to do so. I may quarantine in the future with other fish. But right now I'm more concerned about further stressing out an already stressed out fish in quarantine, when I have her DT full of things that "should" alleviate her stress (open swimming, lots of LR with copepods abound, no other competition for food or harrassers to mess with her, a nice 2-2.5" sandbed, and perfect 10 week old water with no nuisance algaes, etc). I guess some might think I'm not prepared enough for the Kuiter's, but with what I have in place and the intangibles, the LAST thing I want to regret is if she dies in a small QT from stress or starvation or something else, when had I acclimated her into her permanent home maybe she would have flourished like other examples I've heard right here on R2R posts. So I appreciate everyone's input and personal experiences, even if I have a few doubters. I sure hope she surprises the heck out of earl this time ; )
With all of that said, I still want as much advice as possible regarding this direct acclimation. My "current" plan would be to float acclimate for temperature, open bag and immediately dump out most of its water. Then combine her in an acclimation box with my DT water adjusted with RO water to bring the salinity down to where it is closer to the 1.020 that LA ships at. Then every couple minutes add some of my DT water to continue to allow it to adjust to increased salinity. Then perhaps after 10 minutes or so of that add her to her new home - the DT

Thanks for the compliment Cancun. I wanted 2 tanks and them to be centerpieces of the room, so I had a 6x2x2 made with an acrylic divider so that I could have 2 seperate sides, one FOWLR and one reef. The overflows are centered on the divider and both lead to 2 seperate sump systems. Here's a pic of the "living reef" side that my Kuiters will be going into...just a Randall's shrimp Goby and citron in there now.

. Would any of you advise doing it a bit differently or does this sound like a nice plan? My friend (aquarium maintenance company guy) has his thoughts too, but in preparation for this important and delicate addition, I wanted to also ask you, the R2R community. Thank you all!

Sorry if it came out harsh, but I am being honest. There is a reason why your LFS 60 miles away from you doesn't mess with Leopards. I would assume they are probably more knowledgable than you.

The reason why Leopards don't do well in shipping is because they have no sand in the bag while shipping. They will constantly thrash in the bag "trying to dig". From this, they get extremely amount of stress or damage. That's why most don't make it. Worst, you can't ask for sand in the bag since that adds shipping weight.

4 days isn't enough, ESPECIALLY a delicate fish like the Kuiteri. There is a reason why it's listed as an EXPERT ONLY fish. Even people who has been keeping fish for decades struggle to keep this species, including me. What's worse is that you asked for advice AFTER you bought the fish. You no longer have a decision to make whether if it is the right fish for you or not. If you still think it's right for you even after majority of the people tells you it isn't, that's a difference story. But since you made an impulse purchase, if that wrasse dies, it is now 1000% YOUR responsibility, not because of something else that could happen.

Everyone can tell you all there is about a Kuiteri Wrasse, but the fact you don't QT because "you don't want to add stress" tells me you have no confidence in keeping a fish like the Kuiteri. What makes you think it's any different that keeping it in the DT? Whoever told you not to QT is ignorant in my opinion, especially with Leopard wrasses that are super prone to internal parasites. It doesn't matter where it dies, whether it dies in the DT or QT, it's still your responsibility in situations like this.

It's like you don't care, you're too optimistic to care. I'm not being a doubter, I'm being realistic. I SINCERELY hope the wrasse surprises me. I get that animals die because people don't research at all since they are just beginning and have no idea of sources of info, but something like this is unacceptable since you are fully aware of the situation and it turned fully into your responsibility. I am praying that I'm wrong.

 

[Earl Karl]

Sorry if it came out harsh, but I am being honest. There is a reason why your LFS 60 miles away from you doesn't mess with Leopards. I would assume they are probably more knowledgable than you.

The reason why Leopards don't do well in shipping is because they have no sand in the bag while shipping. They will constantly thrash in the bag "trying to dig". From this, they get extremely amount of stress or damage. That's why most don't make it. Worst, you can't ask for sand in the bag since that adds shipping weight.

4 days isn't enough, ESPECIALLY a delicate fish like the Kuiteri. There is a reason why it's listed as an EXPERT ONLY fish. Even people who has been keeping fish for decades struggle to keep this species, including me. What's worse is that you asked for advice AFTER you bought the fish. You no longer have a decision to make whether if it is the right fish for you or not. If you still think it's right for you even after majority of the people tells you it isn't, that's a difference story. But since you made an impulse purchase, if that wrasse dies, it is now 1000% YOUR responsibility, not because of something else that could happen.

Everyone can tell you all there is about a Kuiteri Wrasse, but the fact you don't QT because "you don't want to add stress" tells me you have no confidence in keeping a fish like the Kuiteri. What makes you think it's any different that keeping it in the DT? Whoever told you not to QT is ignorant in my opinion, especially with Leopard wrasses that are super prone to internal parasites. It doesn't matter where it dies, whether it dies in the DT or QT, it's still your responsibility in situations like this.

It's like you don't care, you're too optimistic to care. I'm not being a doubter, I'm being realistic. I SINCERELY hope the wrasse surprises me. I get that animals die because people don't research at all, but something like this is unacceptable since you are fully aware of the situation and it turned fully into your responsibility. I am praying that I'm wrong.

I'm not giving you my opinion because I'm here to hate. There is no reason for me to do that.

 

[Tamberav]

I have a Kuiter's Leopard Wrasse. I got her at my LFS on black friday so can't say if I am successful or not. Success is measured in many years imo and it has only been a week!

I just temp acclimated and drained most of the water out and released her. She is in my 25g reef as a 'conditioning tank' but the plan is for her to go in my 80g. She has a pile of sand in the corner which she uses. She is with the bluestar and gets along pretty well, a little chase given to the star when there is food involved.

She is more picky about food than the bluestar. Likes ova and live black worms. Hoping to get her reliably eating LRS. I would love to get her to eat medicated foods in case there are internal worms but she knows the medicine is on them, I will try again in the future.

She had mild mouth damage but it healed up fine.

I have read mixed reviews on whether these guys are easy or difficult as far as leopards go. Some say easy, some say difficult.

I ordered 3 bluestars from LA over a year ago. One was DOA, one looked VERY BAD floating sideways and struggling but she lived!! (and is the one I have). One looked great but perished 6+ months in for unknown reasons. She was no longer in my care but I am guessing internal parasites even though she was treated for that. They were picky about food but I got them on LRS day 3. I started with live brine, then ova, then LRS. The Kuiter's is taking much longer to swap.

The representative does not know if the fish is eating. I don't know why they told you that. Even if some were eating, they probably have several and will just ship whatever. LA is not WYSIWYG.

 

[Earl Karl]

I have a Kuiter's Leopard Wrasse. I got her at my LFS on black friday so can't say if I am successful or not. Success is measured in many years imo and it has only been a week!

I just temp acclimated and drained most of the water out and released her. She is in my 25g reef as a 'conditioning tank' but the plan is for her to go in my 80g. She has a pile of sand in the corner which she uses. She is with the bluestar and gets along pretty well, a little chase given to the star when there is food involved.

She is more picky about food than the bluestar. Likes ova and live black worms. Hoping to get her reliably eating LRS. I would love to get her to eat medicated foods in case there are internal worms but she knows the medicine is on them, I will try again in the future.

She had mild mouth damage but it healed up fine.

I have read mixed reviews on whether these guys are easy or difficult as far as leopards go. Some say easy, some say difficult.

I ordered 3 bluestars from LA over a year ago. One was DOA, one looked VERY BAD floating sideways and struggling but she lived!! (and is the one I have). One looked great but perished 6+ months in for unknown reasons. She was no longer in my care but I am guessing internal parasites even though she was treated for that. They were picky about food but I got them on LRS day 3. I started with live brine, then ova, then LRS. The Kuiter's is taking much longer to swap.

The representative does not know if the fish is eating. I don't know why they told you that. Even if some were eating, they probably have several and will just ship whatever. LA is not WYSIWYG.

You will most likely have success with yours, shipping is very rough on these guys, getting them locally is best bet. But a week is still too short, mine perished two months in.

 

[stklaw]

Sorry if it came out harsh, but I am being honest. There is a reason why your LFS 60 miles away from you doesn't mess with Leopards. I would assume they are probably more knowledgable than you.

The reason why Leopards don't do well in shipping is because they have no sand in the bag while shipping. They will constantly thrash in the bag "trying to dig". From this, they get extremely amount of stress or damage. That's why most don't make it. Worst, you can't ask for sand in the bag since that adds shipping weight.

4 days isn't enough, ESPECIALLY a delicate fish like the Kuiteri. There is a reason why it's listed as an EXPERT ONLY fish. Even people who has been keeping fish for decades struggle to keep this species, including me. What's worse is that you asked for advice AFTER you bought the fish. You no longer have a decision to make whether if it is the right fish for you or not. If you still think it's right for you even after majority of the people tells you it isn't, that's a difference story. But since you made an impulse purchase, if that wrasse dies, it is now 1000% YOUR responsibility, not because of something else that could happen.

Everyone can tell you all there is about a Kuiteri Wrasse, but the fact you don't QT because "you don't want to add stress" tells me you have no confidence in keeping a fish like the Kuiteri. What makes you think it's any different that keeping it in the DT? Whoever told you not to QT is ignorant in my opinion, especially with Leopard wrasses that are super prone to internal parasites. It doesn't matter where it dies, whether it dies in the DT or QT, it's still your responsibility in situations like this.

It's like you don't care, you're too optimistic to care. I'm not being a doubter, I'm being realistic. I SINCERELY hope the wrasse surprises me. I get that animals die because people don't research at all since they are just beginning and have no idea of sources of info, but something like this is unacceptable since you are fully aware of the situation and it turned fully into your responsibility. I am praying that I'm wrong.

Well I appreciate everyone spending time to comment and share experiences and suggestions. I probably wont try this again [asking others to share advice/experiences] in the future as a particular member - his name is earl - felt that it would be more fun for him to demean and shame me for his predicted murder of this fish. I opened my post stating that they will arrive TUE (indicating they were already ordered). I was just looking for the best advice for acclimation and care since it was ordered and I wanted as many experience-based tips I could get. I had already recieved tutelage and the confidence instilling go-ahead from my friend who owns his aquarium maintenance company in Madison for over a decade now. He was confident with everything, advised not QTing of the Leopard, and I've read many posts and/or published articles that say dont QT Leopards either. So some dont, some do...obviously Earl does. Nevertheless, I've had 8 years experience with a smaller SW aquarium, and my expert friend was confident everything was good-to-go. I mentioned that LA stated they ship it in sand, and I'm picking her up at the UPS site as soon as they open. The Kuiters Wrasse has already been caught, transported to California and acclimated at the facility. It couldve died there. It could die from stress being transported to any one of us. It could survive going to LFS and die from yet another transport & acclimation at someone's home 2 weeks later. But someone is going to buy it, and maybe it is someone who doesn't care or just half-butt their system and feeding, or just the "love" theyll give. Earl you know nothing about me, yet you took a lot of time to let people know that I dont care, im unconfident, like I'm flippant or naive, and whatever shaming techniques you were using on someone just seeking some more advice, not discouragement. Earl, I dont need to be demeaned or guilted when I'm looking for commoradity and suggestions amongst fellow fish lovers, and if you keep doing so people arent going to bother with posing discussions anymore.

 

[Tamberav]

@stklaw Also I would pick up some general cure, focus and prazipro. All the leopards I have bought had flukes and/or internal worms. You can use these in your DT. I know I do anyways and I have tons of corals. The only downside is bacteria breaks down prazipro so you may need to re-treat a few times to get em all.

Buying a culture starter kit of white worms to farm your own will also benefit everyone in your tank. They can live up to 5?? days in salt water too!

None of my leopards were shipped with sand from them so that's weird. Maybe a policy change? Please let me know as I am curious!

 

[Earl Karl]

Well I appreciate everyone spending time to comment and share experiences and suggestions. I probably wont try this again [asking others to share advice/experiences] in the future as a particular member - his name is earl - felt that it would be more fun for him to demean and shame me for his predicted murder of this fish. I opened my post stating that they will arrive TUE (indicating they were already ordered). I was just looking for the best advice for acclimation and care since it was ordered and I wanted as many experience-based tips I could get. I had already recieved tutelage and the confidence instilling go-ahead from my friend who owns his aquarium maintenance company in Madison for over a decade now. He was confident with everything, advised not QTing of the Leopard, and I've read many posts and/or published articles that say dont QT Leopards either. So some dont, some do...obviously Earl does. Nevertheless, I've had 8 years experience with a smaller SW aquarium, and my expert friend was confident everything was good-to-go. I mentioned that LA stated they ship it in sand, and I'm picking her up at the UPS site as soon as they open. The Kuiters Wrasse has already been caught, transported to California and acclimated at the facility. It couldve died there. It could die from stress being transported to any one of us. It could survive going to LFS and die from yet another transport & acclimation at someone's home 2 weeks later. But someone is going to buy it, and maybe it is someone who doesn't care or just half-*** their system and feeding, or just the "love" theyll give. Earl you know nothing about me, yet you took a lot of time to let people know that I dont care, im unconfident, like I'm flippant or naive, and whatever shaming techniques you were using on someone just seeking some more advice, not discouragement. Earl, I dont need to be demeaned or guilted when I'm looking for commoradity and suggestions amongst fellow fish lovers, and if you keep doing so people arent going to bother with posing discussions anymore.

Sigh you didn't get my message as it went over your head. I barely took any time to let you know what you did was wrong, yet you take criticism poorly which spiraled into this. Reality doesn't care about feelings. I want to give you my honest opinion, not false hope.
Anyways, please keep us updated on the wrasse.

 

[stklaw]

I have a Kuiter's Leopard Wrasse. I got her at my LFS on black friday so can't say if I am successful or not. Success is measured in many years imo and it has only been a week!

I just temp acclimated and drained most of the water out and released her. She is in my 25g reef as a 'conditioning tank' but the plan is for her to go in my 80g. She has a pile of sand in the corner which she uses. She is with the bluestar and gets along pretty well, a little chase given to the star when there is food involved.

She is more picky about food than the bluestar. Likes ova and live black worms. Hoping to get her reliably eating LRS. I would love to get her to eat medicated foods in case there are internal worms but she knows the medicine is on them, I will try again in the future.

She had mild mouth damage but it healed up fine.

I have read mixed reviews on whether these guys are easy or difficult as far as leopards go. Some say easy, some say difficult.

I ordered 3 bluestars from LA over a year ago. One was DOA, one looked VERY BAD floating sideways and struggling but she lived!! (and is the one I have). One looked great but perished 6+ months in for unknown reasons. She was no longer in my care but I am guessing internal parasites even though she was treated for that. They were picky about food but I got them on LRS day 3. I started with live brine, then ova, then LRS. The Kuiter's is taking much longer to swap.

The representative does not know if the fish is eating. I don't know why they told you that. Even if some were eating, they probably have several and will just ship whatever. LA is not WYSIWYG.

Thanks for sharing your experiences Tamberav. Yes I emailed support at LA about what they were eating. They responded saying all there Leopard Wrasses are eating Hikari frozen mysis and brine, plus high-nutrient pellets. They informed me they quarantine their wrasses usually 4 weeks. And they said all the Leopards are shipped in sand. Being shipped from CA in the evening, itll spend less time in the shipping bag bcuz of the extra 2 hours timezone diff, and I'll be picking it up at 7 or 8 am at the UPS... when they open. My "aquarium maintenance company owner friend" will be present for its acclimation. It'll have the live foods and frozen (I use reef frenzy too) that it will need in an environment that has no food-seeking rivals. I'm as ready as I can be to pull her out of the throws of shipping stress. Between cycling with fritz turbo boost, lots of LR, weekly water changes and 20% of my water is NutriSea water, using Fritz 9 to supplement beneficial bacteria, healthy refugim and 4 jugs of algaebarn copepods, I have IMO a very strong 10-week old system. If my system was 6 months old instead, there will be different factors, primarily more fish and bioload, even if it's more "mature". But would I still be blamed 1000% for its death if I waited 3 more months? Or would it be the shipping stress? Sounds like it takes all the right conditions: shipping time, shipping conditions (sand), the correct acclimation steps whether it's to the QT or to the DT, and a Leopard Wrasse that will allow itself to eat again, and I've got ALL the food options covered. So I feel I'm doing everything I can to address the stress factor. Thank you guys and gals for your all comments and stories!!

 

[Earl Karl]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Tamberav. Yes I emailed support at LA about what they were eating. They responded saying all there Leopard Wrasses are eating Hikari frozen mysis and brine, plus high-nutrient pellets. They informed me they quarantine their wrasses usually 4 weeks. And they said all the Leopards are shipped in sand. Being shipped from CA in the evening, itll spend less time in the shipping bag bcuz of the extra 2 hours timezone diff, and I'll be picking it up at 7 or 8 am at the UPS... when they open. My "aquarium maintenance company owner friend" will be present for its acclimation. It'll have the live foods and frozen (I use reef frenzy too) that it will need in an environment that has no food-seeking rivals. I'm as ready as I can be to pull her out of the throws of shipping stress. Between cycling with fritz turbo boost, lots of LR, weekly water changes and 20% of my water is NutriSea water, using Fritz 9 to supplement beneficial bacteria, healthy refugim and 4 jugs of algaebarn copepods, I have IMO a very strong 10-week old system. If my system was 6 months old instead, there will be different factors, primarily more fish and bioload, even if it's more "mature". But would I still be blamed 1000% for its death if I waited 3 more months? Or would it be the shipping stress? Sounds like it takes all the right conditions: shipping time, shipping conditions (sand), the correct acclimation steps whether it's to the QT or to the DT, and a Leopard Wrasse that will allow itself to eat again, and I've got ALL the food options covered. So I feel I'm doing everything I can to address the stress factor. Thank you guys and gals for your all comments and stories!!

Smh, this person really didn't get my message. It became your responsibility when you decided to make an impulse purchase and THEN researched. Nothing to do with waiting nor your tank.
Again, please keep us updated.

 

[Tamberav]

Well my leopards from LA were not eating frozen and certainly not pellets and were not shipped in sand. I feel they are being a bit misleading but maybe something changed when the prices increased or maybe they ship $170 leopards better than cheaper ones.

Since it's a 10 week old system you may find nutrients and algae blooms a problem with the feeding. This won't harm the fish ofc but tank may need some work after.

 

[stklaw]

Smh, this person really didn't get my message. It became your responsibility when you decided to make an impulse purchase and THEN researched. Nothing to do with waiting nor your tank.
Again, please keep us updated.

To the contrary, I researched thoroughly beforehand, also discussed in detail with [again] my friend who owns and operates his own aquarium maintenance business, got his full confidence, had a plan - scheduled the date for him to also be here, and accepted his advice on "acclimate and in" with Leopards over QT (like others have concurred with, and others disagreed with). I pre-contacted LA beforehand on their quarantine practices, food, sand in bag, salinity level, etc... Hardly a naive impulse purchase. And then I ordered. And then the next day I merely asked R2R members about their acclimation experiences with Leopards and input on what theirs have eaten, etc. - not "if" I should get it. I did plenty of research before purchasing, not after. "This person" [me] has a 4 year degree and has a very well adjusted family ...Earl do you just assume everyone asking a question or about experiences is a complete irresponsible moron (I mean, reread your statements) that should be publicly shamed bcuz you're convinced the fish has a zero chance of survival and I'm 1000% responsible for its murder? I was really excited about this opportunity, I was enthusiastic to read what people had to say, but then earl [reread your stuff] decided to be the 6 line wrasse of shami g and blaming.
I would love to update you but I'm sure you already have the "I told you so" speech written for me.

 

[Earl Karl]

Have you reread your thread? You posted "How to acclimate Kuiteri Leopard" right AFTER you bought your leopard. You should be asking that BEFORE. And if you did, there is a lot of confusion. Why ask now? Do you not trust your aquarium maintenance guy? This is something you ask BEFORE buying a fish like a Kuiteri or any EXPERT ONLY fish. Otherwise, it comes out as an impulse buy and you know that there's a source full of info like here, so why ask after? That's where things went wrong. Now the most delicate species of Macropharyngodon has to be kept under someone who has PROBABLY never kept a leopard. I have never said it had zero chance of living, you are twisting words. You should get over your feelings, and realize an animal's life is at stake (not 100% chance of death). All you want is praise, no criticism whatsoever. You went on this pointless rant as long as an essay rather than making a decent argument.

NEVER trust a representative. They are there to get sales. They could care less about you, they won't tell you that Leopard wrasses have terrible survival rates (not 0%). I also highly doubt they put sand in the bags, no one here who has ordered leopard wrasses from them has ever gotten sand in bags for the leopard.

I gave you an honest opinion and experience, instead you got upset. I have kept this species and 2 months in, it just passed away. This also happens to the best of us who tried this species. One of the most pretigious fishkeepers here has stated IN THIS THREAD that he was 0/5 with Kuiteri. Yet you seem to ignore it because all you want to hear is good things, not reality. This is just helping you expect and prepare for the worst.

I don't have an "I told you so" ready. I have a "Thank God I was wrong" ready.

 

[cancun]

Hi again. I thought I would chime in again.... LOL! I know as I stated before, I never have bought Leopards or any of my Wrasses online....with that being said...I have never QT any of my Wrasses, and I have 12. One Solon Fairy, Red Coris, several Halichoris Wrasses including my prized Earmuff Wrasse, China Wrasse (Anampses), and my 6 Leopards. All Wrasses have been with me 3-5 years and one tank upgrade. I did leave them at my LFS for a week or two before I picked them up, and made sure they were eatting. I never used prazi in my reef eaither. I always feed frozen foods only including LRS soaked in Selecon on occasion. I know this is different than ordering online.

IMO here at R2R we are a community a majority of us are here to help you. We are all new to the game at one time or another. I have made plenty of mistakes myself in the past in this hobby and learned from them.

You already have the little guy on the way....that is established already....your main question which was totally valid was experiences and how to acclimate him. You have the right idea about acclimating, but seriously watch the salinity. You can't bring a fish from low to high in a short amount of time. I learned that the hard (and expensive) way years ago. If you have no inverts, or corals in that tank, you could always drop the salinity down to at least 1.020 in that tank. You have from now until Tuesday to do that. That's just my opinion though.

I am glad you took the time to ask questions here about acclimating etc. If you have to any questions as you go along please don't hesitate to ask!

 

[stklaw]

Have you reread your thread? You posted "How to acclimate Kuiteri Leopard" right AFTER you bought your leopard. You should be asking that BEFORE. And if you did, there is a lot of confusion. Why ask now? Do you not trust your aquarium maintenance guy? This is something you ask BEFORE buying a fish like a Kuiteri or any EXPERT ONLY fish. Otherwise, it comes out as an impulse buy and you know that there's a source full of info like here, so why ask after? That's where things went wrong. Now the most delicate species of Macropharyngodon has to be kept under someone who has PROBABLY never kept a leopard. I have never said it had zero chance of living, you are twisting words. You should get over your feelings, and realize an animal's life is at stake (not 100% chance of death). All you want is praise, no criticism whatsoever. You went on this pointless rant as long as an essay rather than making a decent argument.

NEVER trust a representative. They are there to get sales. They could care less about you, they won't tell you that Leopard wrasses have terrible survival rates (not 0%). I also highly doubt they put sand in the bags, no one here who has ordered leopard wrasses from them has ever gotten sand in bags for the leopard.

I gave you an honest opinion and experience, instead you got upset. I have kept this species and 2 months in, it just passed away. This also happens to the best of us who tried this species. One of the most pretigious fishkeepers here has stated IN THIS THREAD that he was 0/5 with Kuiteri. Yet you seem to ignore it because all you want to hear is good things, not reality. This is just helping you expect and prepare for the worst.

I don't have an "I told you so" ready. I have a "Thank God I was wrong" ready.

So you're arguing that I should have solely went with what my aquarium maintenance owner friend said and does, and that's it huh? Just one opinion, and not bother asking others? I completely trust him, but OBVIOUSLY everyone else has advice and experiences, some differing. I thought asking for as much information as I could hear was a good thing. I guess I could have not asked anyone but my friend about acclimating a Leopard wrasse that came in a bag of sand for its safety. Would that have seemed prudent? Or would ALSO asking others like people in the R2R community? I researched the bejesus out of this fish and topic, but you decide because I ask others how they may have acclimated their Leopard wrasses that I didnt research jack or think anything thru? I asked one simple question about others' acclimation decisions; it doesn't mean I hadnt looked into anything beforehand or came prepared.
Reality isnt: because you determined I did no research and made some shortsighted impulsive decision and bought it first then asked a bunch of desperate questions, that you need to let chastize and let me know that if the fish dies, it was "1000%" on me, my doing. Not the fish itself, not the shipping stress, not the loss of appetite from shipping stress and no desire to eat...but that this moron did no research at all because he wanted to hear how others decided to acclimate their Leopard...which we see is very many different ways for different people. Thats NOT reality.
I dont really care to keep this banter with you up, even tho I'm sure the R2R followers are getting a big kick out of it. Read how you came across to a simple question about others reefers experiences in ACCLIMATING a sand-bagged Leopard coming overnight. Not "if" I should get one, not wondering everything in the book on Leopards because I dont know anything. It was one acclimation related inquiry into other's approaches and styles, not a blind naive impulsive purchase by some inexperienced moron now asking questions about what Leopard wrasses are like.
You say stuff to me like i made some pointless meaningless rant like an essay, that I dont care about a fish's life, get over my feelings, it's 1000% my fault if it dies, etc... Youre a pompous demeanor. What do I need your praise for??...get over yourself mr. Expert. You dont get to talk to me that way like some internet troll behind a computer wearing a leotard might. Id say if you were a wrasse, youd be a Ha-Wrasse. I'm requesting that you NEVER respond to me again. I am however, completely happy with everyone else's helpful and tactful responses, and would like to see more of theirs. Thank you.

Hi again. I thought I would chime in again.... LOL! I know as I stated before, I never have bought Leopards or any of my Wrasses online....with that being said...I have never QT any of my Wrasses, and I have 12. One Solon Fairy, Red Coris, several Halichoris Wrasses including my prized Earmuff Wrasse, China Wrasse (Anampses), and my 6 Leopards. All Wrasses have been with me 3-5 years and one tank upgrade. I did leave them at my LFS for a week or two before I picked them up, and made sure they were eatting. I never used prazi in my reef eaither. I always feed frozen foods only including LRS soaked in Selecon on occasion. I know this is different than ordering online.

IMO here at R2R we are a community a majority of us are here to help you. We are all new to the game at one time or another. I have made plenty of mistakes myself in the past in this hobby and learned from them.

You already have the little guy on the way....that is established already....your main question which was totally valid was experiences and how to acclimate him. You have the right idea about acclimating, but seriously watch the salinity. You can't bring a fish from low to high in a short amount of time. I learned that the hard (and expensive) way years ago. If you have no inverts, or corals in that tank, you could always drop the salinity down to at least 1.020 in that tank. You have from now until Tuesday to do that. That's just my opinion though.

I am glad you took the time to ask questions here about acclimating etc. If you have to any questions as you go along please don't hesitate to ask!

Cancun, I am very appreciative of your input, and sharing regarding your massive wrasse collection. I plan on 3 wrasses on each side when all stocked with diligently researched peaceful inhabitants. Im completely on board with your feelings about the salinity adjustment, while still trying to expel that nasty ammonia. My strategy at this moment - helped along with great feedback from you guys - will probably be something as follows:
Float for 30 min to temperature acclimate.
Pour out as much bag water as able, then lightly transfer fish to my smooth bottom acclimation container with DT water and a little RO water to have it to 1.020 for the transfer into acclimation box (my DT is currently at 1.023. I'll have it at 1.022 per your recommendation Cancun by TUE.
Then once she is in the acclimation container we could bring that salinity up to about 1.022 in a reasonable and safe amount of time to get her up into DT waters and alleviate her stress quickly.

Also per your and others recommendation(s), I will have some live brine shrimp and live black worms on hand, picking it up tomorrow. For my other 2 wrasses, I already use reef frenzy, frozen brine & mysis & krill & bloodworms, plus NLS pellets and chlorella flakes. I add garlic. And CBD oil. Just kidding. But the Adorned and Red Headed Fairy I have in the FOWLR that I got from LiveAquaria last week are eating practically everything I give them, and like hogs!
Again thank you and several many others for great additional or confirming advice!
Much gratitude - and please keep any more great morsels coming!

 

[maroun.c]

Guys let's try to keep this friendly.

Putting aside the impulse buy (most of us if not all were/are guilty of sometimes.

My tank is wrass dominated with many leopards through the years. They are difficult fish to.get established but bullet proof from there after.
One key thing is to make sure to track when leopards get out and feed them, even if it requires u to set an alarm and wake up at night to check. In ir case that might not be the case as fish would most probably already be adjusted to ur time zone. If not hanging lighting towards ur time.zone by 1-2 hours every few days will be needed.
They're best acclimated in a QT as if they are finicky sometimes showering them with lots of food might trigger a response but will require lots of syphoning and water changes.
I normally open bag slightly and drop few drops of any ammonia binder then make sure salinity matches QT, adjust qt salinity then float the bag to match temp then place fish in QT with least possible water.
After fish is eating I run 1-2 courses of prazi as well as a cycle.of cupramine (controversial but I decided a while back to copper any fish i add)
Moving to DT I'd normally place in an intro box to check/minimize aggression from other wrasses but as its ur first addition theres no need for that. Its key to feed them heavily so they pick up weight (ideally in QT ) but as ur adding to DT straight then just feed few pellets or frozen mysis at a time but repeat very frequently. Water changes might be needed to minimize toll on ur nutrient levels.

Beautiful fish, good luck with it!

 

[Earl Karl]

So you're arguing that I should have solely went with what my aquarium maintenance owner friend said and does, and that's it huh? Just one opinion, and not bother asking others? I completely trust him, but OBVIOUSLY everyone else has advice and experiences, some differing. I thought asking for as much information as I could hear was a good thing. I guess I could have not asked anyone but my friend about acclimating a Leopard wrasse that came in a bag of sand for its safety. Would that have seemed prudent? Or would ALSO asking others like people in the R2R community? I researched the bejesus out of this fish and topic, but you decide because I ask others how they may have acclimated their Leopard wrasses that I didnt research jack or think anything thru? I asked one simple question about others' acclimation decisions; it doesn't mean I hadnt looked into anything beforehand or came prepared.
Reality isnt: because you determined I did no research and made some shortsighted impulsive decision and bought it first then asked a bunch of desperate questions, that you need to let chastize and let me know that if the fish dies, it was "1000%" on me, my doing. Not the fish itself, not the shipping stress, not the loss of appetite from shipping stress and no desire to eat...but that this moron did no research at all because he wanted to hear how others decided to acclimate their Leopard...which we see is very many different ways for different people. Thats NOT reality.
I dont really care to keep this banter with you up, even tho I'm sure the R2R followers are getting a big kick out of it. Read how you came across to a simple question about others reefers experiences in ACCLIMATING a sand-bagged Leopard coming overnight. Not "if" I should get one, not wondering everything in the book on Leopards because I dont know anything. It was one acclimation related inquiry into other's approaches and styles, not a blind naive impulsive purchase by some inexperienced moron now asking questions about what Leopard wrasses are like.
You say stuff to me like i made some pointless meaningless rant like an essay, that I dont care about a fish's life, get over my feelings, it's 1000% my fault if it dies, etc... Youre a pompous demeanor. What do I need your praise for??...get over yourself mr. Expert. You dont get to talk to me that way like some internet troll behind a computer wearing a leotard might. Id say if you were a wrasse, youd be a Ha-Wrasse. I'm requesting that you NEVER respond to me again. I am however, completely happy with everyone else's helpful and tactful responses, and would like to see more of theirs. Thank you.

Cancun, I am very appreciative of your input, and sharing regarding your massive wrasse collection. I plan on 3 wrasses on each side when all stocked with diligently researched peaceful inhabitants. Im completely on board with your feelings about the salinity adjustment, while still trying to expel that nasty ammonia. My strategy at this moment - helped along with great feedback from you guys - will probably be something as follows:
Float for 30 min to temperature acclimate.
Pour out as much bag water as able, then lightly transfer fish to my smooth bottom acclimation container with DT water and a little RO water to have it to 1.020 for the transfer into acclimation box (my DT is currently at 1.023. I'll have it at 1.022 per your recommendation Cancun by TUE.
Then once she is in the acclimation container we could bring that salinity up to about 1.022 in a reasonable and safe amount of time to get her up into DT waters and alleviate her stress quickly.

Also per your and others recommendation(s), I will have some live brine shrimp and live black worms on hand, picking it up tomorrow. For my other 2 wrasses, I already use reef frenzy, frozen brine & mysis & krill & bloodworms, plus NLS pellets and chlorella flakes. I add garlic. And CBD oil. Just kidding. But the Adorned and Red Headed Fairy I have in the FOWLR that I got from LiveAquaria last week are eating practically everything I give them, and like hogs!
Again thank you and several many others for great additional or confirming advice!
Much gratitude - and please keep any more great morsels coming!

I'll put this in a friendly way. My point was you should be asking this before you made the purchase. You are skipping lines of what I wrote.

I'll admit I got a bit ahead of myself as well, I guess I did not appreciate the rant you responded with, just did not expected that my opinion would hurt your feelings. It came off to me as you were naive with too much optimism, instead of realizing the unfortunate reality of this beautiful species. I guess it was a bad assumption. Hopefully that is the case and this species does well for you as many has failed to keep this species long term, including me.

I don't expect anyone to fail with this species. There are few people who kept this species, but they have kept leopards longer than I have been in the hobby (I've been reefkeeping for 11 years). Even then, many other people who also kept leopards for a long time fail miserably. I believe this is a fish that should be attempted by people who have full experience with leopards, not anyone who just have the money for it. Same with other expert only fish.

I know you only asked for acclimation, but I did not agree with what you are going to do AFTER you acclimate the leopard. I get that people don't QT. But there are some species like Moorish Idols, Tangs, More delicate Leopards, etc. where QT is mandatory. I QT all of my fish and everything that is going into my tank so that they are disease free and thrive in my tank, instead of constantly having to fight something.

But with leopard wrasses, they come with NASTY stuff like intestinal worms. The fact that you didn't even mention of feeding medicated foods appealed to me that you have no idea what you are getting into, which made me believe that the wrasse was going to be kept under improper care. But hopefully it is just a bad assumption I made.

I barely buy fish online as I get stuff from wholesalers and they always been mentoring me since I was 9, so I never understood impulse buys, but then again, not everyone has had the same experience as I did. I always asked and learned from my mentors before purchasing anything. If anyone was killing the fish, it's not me. It breaks my heart whenever something dies unnaturally. Of course it happens, sometimes we make stupid mistakes but if you get no criticism for it, you'll shrug it off with no big deal. I always make sure that if I make a stupid mistake, it doesn't happen again and that comes with criticism.

Good luck with this species, I really mean it. I don't wish death on anything. My beliefs are a bit harsh, I know that. I even believe that people who don't QT should not be in the hobby. But I don't own this hobby and it is just my opinion, does not have to affect you any way or another.

 

[bjc451]

I added a clownfish first in my tank. lol

 

[Dkeller_nc]

OP: All back and forth over fish shaming aside (which is not appropriate, IMO), here is some specific advice about your situation.

On the QT thing - After having had many leopards over the 30+ years I've been doing this, I do agree that QT'ing a leopard in the way that one would clownfish, a tang, etc. in a bare, unconditioned tank would be a bad idea. Folks often do the bare-tank thing so that they can use the "tank transfer method" to control ich.

But as others have noted, leopards are going to fare very poorly in such circumstances. So what I was suggesting is perhaps more properly called "isolation" in a 20g tank that has properly cycled rock and sand. One thing I can say with confidence about this is that the size of the tank will not cause any undue stress on the average 3" leopard. The primary purpose of an isolation tank like this is simply to slowly acclimate them to the DT's salinity and to allow them to reestablish their eating behavior without interference from other fish and to fatten up a bit (many, if not most, distributors don't feed the fish very much).

If you choose not to do this, then I would say this about your plan to acclimate the fish to the specific gravity of your display:

1) Acclimate the shipping bag to the temp of your display tank before checking the specific gravity - this will ensure that you get an accurate measure of this parameter.

2) Mix up your fresh tank water with RODI to the shipping bag's specific gravity.

3) Release the fish from the bag into a bucket, and immediately capture it with your hand and transfer it to your acclimation container filled with the new DT water adjusted to the specific gravity of the shipping water.

4) Add an airstone to the acclimation container - this is extremely important, as the major issue with acclimating low specific gravity fish to higher specific gravity is hypoxia.

5) Adjust the specific gravity of the acclimation container to your DT's specific gravity over the course of an hour and a half while maintaining the temperature and aeration of the acclimation container.

6) Release the fish to the DT with the lights off.

Good luck - while leopards can be challenging, they're fascinating tank inhabitants.

 

[ca1ore]

So what I was suggesting is perhaps more properly called "isolation" in a 20g tank that has properly cycled rock and sand. One thing I can say with confidence about this is that the size of the tank will not cause any undue stress on the average 3" leopard. The primary purpose of an isolation tank like this is simply to slowly acclimate them to the DT's salinity and to allow them to reestablish their eating behavior without interference from other fish and to fatten up a bit (many, if not most, distributors don't feed the fish very much).

This is precisely what I do with leopard wrasse and it has significantly improved my success rates with these fishes over the past decade or so. I don’t personally find buying them locally versus online to materially impact my success rates overall. I suppose LFS bears the ‘cost’ of shipping losses, but those locally at retail are usually exhibiting some levels of weight loss so it’s a push. I’ve only kept a kuiters once, and that was a while back. I had it for a number of years, but it’s a sample size of only one. Should I see a kuiters in good health I’d definitely get one again. My personal challenge leopard is the black. Not really sure why, because I don’t see them as particularly problematic within the genus, but they always waste away on me.

 

[cancun]

So you're arguing that I should have solely went with what my aquarium maintenance owner friend said and does, and that's it huh? Just one opinion, and not bother asking others? I completely trust him, but OBVIOUSLY everyone else has advice and experiences, some differing. I thought asking for as much information as I could hear was a good thing. I guess I could have not asked anyone but my friend about acclimating a Leopard wrasse that came in a bag of sand for its safety. Would that have seemed prudent? Or would ALSO asking others like people in the R2R community? I researched the bejesus out of this fish and topic, but you decide because I ask others how they may have acclimated their Leopard wrasses that I didnt research jack or think anything thru? I asked one simple question about others' acclimation decisions; it doesn't mean I hadnt looked into anything beforehand or came prepared.
Reality isnt: because you determined I did no research and made some shortsighted impulsive decision and bought it first then asked a bunch of desperate questions, that you need to let chastize and let me know that if the fish dies, it was "1000%" on me, my doing. Not the fish itself, not the shipping stress, not the loss of appetite from shipping stress and no desire to eat...but that this moron did no research at all because he wanted to hear how others decided to acclimate their Leopard...which we see is very many different ways for different people. Thats NOT reality.
I dont really care to keep this banter with you up, even tho I'm sure the R2R followers are getting a big kick out of it. Read how you came across to a simple question about others reefers experiences in ACCLIMATING a sand-bagged Leopard coming overnight. Not "if" I should get one, not wondering everything in the book on Leopards because I dont know anything. It was one acclimation related inquiry into other's approaches and styles, not a blind naive impulsive purchase by some inexperienced moron now asking questions about what Leopard wrasses are like.
You say stuff to me like i made some pointless meaningless rant like an essay, that I dont care about a fish's life, get over my feelings, it's 1000% my fault if it dies, etc... Youre a pompous demeanor. What do I need your praise for??...get over yourself mr. Expert. You dont get to talk to me that way like some internet troll behind a computer wearing a leotard might. Id say if you were a wrasse, youd be a Ha-Wrasse. I'm requesting that you NEVER respond to me again. I am however, completely happy with everyone else's helpful and tactful responses, and would like to see more of theirs. Thank you.

Cancun, I am very appreciative of your input, and sharing regarding your massive wrasse collection. I plan on 3 wrasses on each side when all stocked with diligently researched peaceful inhabitants. Im completely on board with your feelings about the salinity adjustment, while still trying to expel that nasty ammonia. My strategy at this moment - helped along with great feedback from you guys - will probably be something as follows:
Float for 30 min to temperature acclimate.
Pour out as much bag water as able, then lightly transfer fish to my smooth bottom acclimation container with DT water and a little RO water to have it to 1.020 for the transfer into acclimation box (my DT is currently at 1.023. I'll have it at 1.022 per your recommendation Cancun by TUE.
Then once she is in the acclimation container we could bring that salinity up to about 1.022 in a reasonable and safe amount of time to get her up into DT waters and alleviate her stress quickly.

Also per your and others recommendation(s), I will have some live brine shrimp and live black worms on hand, picking it up tomorrow. For my other 2 wrasses, I already use reef frenzy, frozen brine & mysis & krill & bloodworms, plus NLS pellets and chlorella flakes. I add garlic. And CBD oil. Just kidding. But the Adorned and Red Headed Fairy I have in the FOWLR that I got from LiveAquaria last week are eating practically everything I give them, and like hogs!
Again thank you and several many others for great additional or confirming advice!
Much gratitude - and please keep any more great morsels coming!

Hi there!!!! Anxiously awaiting your Leopard!!!! Is he still coming today????