Just bought a mandarin from Algaebarn. I've never purchased a fish from the internet before. Any special acclimating tips or just as you would normally from an LFS? Also, being a mandarin, any thing different for acclimating too?
Acclimating Mandarins from the Internet
- Thread starter ItsAName
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When you buy fish online, they stay in the bag for much longer so you want to do a faster acclimation to get them out of the dirty water asap. 15 minute float and then 15 minute fast drip (water volume should at least double in 15 minutes) is what I usually recommend.
SashimiTurtle
Turtle
In low oxygen levels, ammonia is in a much less toxic form called ammonium. Once you open the bag and start dripping them, the ammonia levels shoot up very rapidly. I do a long float and a quick drip.
40B Knasty
Valuable Member
@Lasse, I remember you posting about how you acclimate a shipped vs LFS purchases of fish. I remember going "hmm that's interesting." You had some scientific reason for a longer acclimation process for a shipped fish. I could be 100% wrong about this, but either way I am sure you helping would be great for this member. Nothing against what anyone has said.
Following.
Following.
I found his post, thank you mentioning it. I don't have an ammonia blocking agent and the fish arrives in the morning. I also don't have a QT tank(don't yell at me please!) so I can't play with the PH and salinity. Based on @Lasse post should I float the fish and then just put it in the tank?
SashimiTurtle
Turtle
Mandarins are extremely hard to QT and keep them eating. They are very sensitive to copper medications, have to be treated with chloroquine phosphate, and they usually do not eat frozen foods. So they end up starving the thru the QT process, losing weight the entire time.
No yelling from me about not putting a Mandy thru the stresses of QT. Not when it comes from a reputable source. Not that they can't have something go wrong either, it's just not a big box retail pet store you're buying this fish from.
Hi @ItsAName
Its difficult to give a advise in this situation. Mandarins can be tricky sometimes, How long is the transporting time? Do you know if the shipper use any ammonia blocking agent?
You will have a tricky situation and I will try to give the background for my thought - but the decision – it is up to you.
During any transport – the fish excrete CO2 and NH4 from the gills. The amount of CO2 is depended of stress level and time but is rather constant. The amount of NH4 is also depended of stress level and time but – if the fish have been feed prior to transport – it will excrete more NH4,
The CO2 will lower the pH in the plastic bag – the pH can be as low as < 7 if the transport has been for a prolonged time (often more than 24 hours). The NH4 will accumulate in the water and most time – the fish is able to active transport out NH4 from the body – it means that the level of NH4 in the bloodstream can be much lower than the level in the water (this is valid for NH4). NH4 is the ion of NH3 (ammonia ion and ammonia gas) and how they form a complex NH3/NH4. The amount of each species is depended mainly of the pH and the temperature. In 25-degree C the percentage of each species are. pH 7 -> NH3=0.57 % / NH4=99.43 %; pH 7.5 -> NH3=1.8 %/Nh4=98.2 %; pH 8= NH3=5.4 % / NH4= 94.6 %; pH 8.5 NH3=15% / NH4=85%. As you can see - the amount toxic NH3 is highly depended of pH and its not linear, NH3 can´t be active transported out or into the fish – it’s a concentration issue. If the NH3 level arise in the water – it will automatically (with a time lap) rise in the bloodstream. The conversion between the species is directly – if the pH change – the percentage will change directly. In higher temperatures than 25 degree C - the amount of NH3 is higher at the same pH
As an example – pH in a transport bag is 7 – NH3/NH4 level 1 ppm -> 0.57 % toxic NH3 -> 0.0057 ppm NH3 -> level of no concern. pH 7.5 -> 1.8 % toxic NH3 –> 0.018 ppm NH3 –> short time – no concern; pH 8 -> 5.4% NH3 -> 0.054 ppm NH3 -> it’s a start to be a problem. pH 8.5 -> 15 % toxic NH3 -> 0.15 ppm NH3 -> toxic level for sure.
It’s very difficult to measure NH3/NH4 in the transport bag – therefore you need to be careful when it’s a long transporting time.
You need to do a risk calculation – because a direct transition after a transport can also be dangerous of other reasons.
Do you have a fuge? Mandarin´s are rather delicate to handle – they need some privacy in order to acclimate themselves. If you have a fuge – place them there for a couple of days before introduction to the DT.
If you want to do a direct transition – one trick is to take a bucket (a couple of gallons) of your tank water and dilute that with RO water to the same salinity as in the plastic bag. Transfer the fish directly to this water (without any water from the plastic bag) – aerate or use a circulation pump. Now you have the fish with the same salinity as in the plastic bag but without any NH3/NH4. Now you can slowly adapt the salinity with help of your tank water. If the fish seem to be good – you also can let the fish be in the bucket (after acclimation) for a day or two (aerate or circulate and have the bucket rather dark)
I hope this will be some help for you – good luck with your new mandarin
Sincerely Lasse
Its difficult to give a advise in this situation. Mandarins can be tricky sometimes, How long is the transporting time? Do you know if the shipper use any ammonia blocking agent?
You will have a tricky situation and I will try to give the background for my thought - but the decision – it is up to you.
During any transport – the fish excrete CO2 and NH4 from the gills. The amount of CO2 is depended of stress level and time but is rather constant. The amount of NH4 is also depended of stress level and time but – if the fish have been feed prior to transport – it will excrete more NH4,
The CO2 will lower the pH in the plastic bag – the pH can be as low as < 7 if the transport has been for a prolonged time (often more than 24 hours). The NH4 will accumulate in the water and most time – the fish is able to active transport out NH4 from the body – it means that the level of NH4 in the bloodstream can be much lower than the level in the water (this is valid for NH4). NH4 is the ion of NH3 (ammonia ion and ammonia gas) and how they form a complex NH3/NH4. The amount of each species is depended mainly of the pH and the temperature. In 25-degree C the percentage of each species are. pH 7 -> NH3=0.57 % / NH4=99.43 %; pH 7.5 -> NH3=1.8 %/Nh4=98.2 %; pH 8= NH3=5.4 % / NH4= 94.6 %; pH 8.5 NH3=15% / NH4=85%. As you can see - the amount toxic NH3 is highly depended of pH and its not linear, NH3 can´t be active transported out or into the fish – it’s a concentration issue. If the NH3 level arise in the water – it will automatically (with a time lap) rise in the bloodstream. The conversion between the species is directly – if the pH change – the percentage will change directly. In higher temperatures than 25 degree C - the amount of NH3 is higher at the same pH
As an example – pH in a transport bag is 7 – NH3/NH4 level 1 ppm -> 0.57 % toxic NH3 -> 0.0057 ppm NH3 -> level of no concern. pH 7.5 -> 1.8 % toxic NH3 –> 0.018 ppm NH3 –> short time – no concern; pH 8 -> 5.4% NH3 -> 0.054 ppm NH3 -> it’s a start to be a problem. pH 8.5 -> 15 % toxic NH3 -> 0.15 ppm NH3 -> toxic level for sure.
It’s very difficult to measure NH3/NH4 in the transport bag – therefore you need to be careful when it’s a long transporting time.
You need to do a risk calculation – because a direct transition after a transport can also be dangerous of other reasons.
Do you have a fuge? Mandarin´s are rather delicate to handle – they need some privacy in order to acclimate themselves. If you have a fuge – place them there for a couple of days before introduction to the DT.
If you want to do a direct transition – one trick is to take a bucket (a couple of gallons) of your tank water and dilute that with RO water to the same salinity as in the plastic bag. Transfer the fish directly to this water (without any water from the plastic bag) – aerate or use a circulation pump. Now you have the fish with the same salinity as in the plastic bag but without any NH3/NH4. Now you can slowly adapt the salinity with help of your tank water. If the fish seem to be good – you also can let the fish be in the bucket (after acclimation) for a day or two (aerate or circulate and have the bucket rather dark)
I hope this will be some help for you – good luck with your new mandarin
Sincerely Lasse
According to the UPS tracking, it left at 7pm yesterday and should be here before 10:30am. So maybe all of this is moot?
I dont know if they used an ammonia blocker but they are a reputable distributor.
I cant put him in my fuge, because it's filled with Ulva. Even if I removed 75% of the ulva there wouldnt be enough room for him, it would always be on him. Probably stress him out. I'll try putting tank water in a bucket and diluting it with ro/di and see how that goes.
I dont know if they used an ammonia blocker but they are a reputable distributor.
I cant put him in my fuge, because it's filled with Ulva. Even if I removed 75% of the ulva there wouldnt be enough room for him, it would always be on him. Probably stress him out. I'll try putting tank water in a bucket and diluting it with ro/di and see how that goes.
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Just arrived. He's so tiny, like an 1". So small, I hope the other fish don't bother him even though they are friendly. So based on no scientific knowledge, I'm going to say he barely released any NH4 
Wish me luck, he's floating in the tank now to adjust to the temp, then I'll put him in the bucket
Wish me luck, he's floating in the tank now to adjust to the temp, then I'll put him in the bucket
Do you have a net cage (the type often use in fresh water aquaria) In that case - let him/her be in that cage for the night. He/she will get the same smell and I have notice in the past that this is of concern regarding aggression from the old tank mates.
Good Luck
Sincerely Lasse
Good Luck
Sincerely Lasse
chipmunkofdoom2
Always Making Something
I actually don't drip fish at all. I temperature acclimate for 10 or 15 minutes by floating the bag, test the salinity of the bag, match the salinity in my QT tank to what's in the bag, and drop the fish right in. The very second you cut open the bag, CO2 is off gassing and turning ammonium into ammonia. Knowing this, even a fast drip is too slow for my liking.
@chipmunkofdoom2 I agree with you but in this case - he had no QT - hence the trick with the buckett, adjusted salinity and slowly rise of the salinity with help of tank water. No risk for free NH3 because the NH3/NH4 still left in the plastic bag.
Sincerely Lasse
Sincerely Lasse
chipmunkofdoom2
Always Making Something
Agreed, I hadn't seen that OP was going to do the bucket. I just kept reading "fast drip"
This would actually be my choice if I did not have quarantine available. Good advice!
Ok. I did everything mentioned in this thread. Thank you everyone again for such amazing helpful advice! I learned a lot. Here's what I ended up doing step by step.
1. Floated the bag in the water for 20 minutes
2. Put tank water in a bucket
3. Opened the bag with the fish and measured the salinity at 1.02
4. Added RODI into the bucket until the water in there was at salinity 1.02
5. Put just the fish in the bucket
6. Dripped tank water into the bucket to bring the salinity up to 1.025. This took longer than I thought, about 45 minutes total. Probably added 5 times the amount of water as I started with.
7. Put the little guy in a cage in the tank
8. Waited 5 hours and gave him some frozen copepods. He ate them up!
Some pics!
1. The box from Algaebarn
2. The packaging
3. Wow he's tiny! Brown bag is the heat pack. I was surprised to not see any food packed with him. I heard from other folks that they got food with their order
4. Close up in the bag. Horrible pic, sorry
5. In the homer bucket. Mainly just to show you how tiny!
6. In the cage. The cage has metal clips. I thought that was bad? Will it be fine?
7. Close up of the guy with better lighting.
Tonight, I'll try and get some copepods from the fuge and throw them in there.
1. Floated the bag in the water for 20 minutes
2. Put tank water in a bucket
3. Opened the bag with the fish and measured the salinity at 1.02
4. Added RODI into the bucket until the water in there was at salinity 1.02
5. Put just the fish in the bucket
6. Dripped tank water into the bucket to bring the salinity up to 1.025. This took longer than I thought, about 45 minutes total. Probably added 5 times the amount of water as I started with.
7. Put the little guy in a cage in the tank
8. Waited 5 hours and gave him some frozen copepods. He ate them up!
Some pics!
1. The box from Algaebarn
2. The packaging
3. Wow he's tiny! Brown bag is the heat pack. I was surprised to not see any food packed with him. I heard from other folks that they got food with their order
4. Close up in the bag. Horrible pic, sorry
5. In the homer bucket. Mainly just to show you how tiny!
6. In the cage. The cage has metal clips. I thought that was bad? Will it be fine?
7. Close up of the guy with better lighting.
Tonight, I'll try and get some copepods from the fuge and throw them in there.
For 24 hours - the clips will probably not matter. Or let me put it this way - I would use the cage without hesitating.
Sincerely Lasse
Sincerely Lasse
DraggingTail
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How did this pan out?
