Acclimation Question Has Been Beaten to Death, But.

[chiefifd]

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but…... Here goes.
I don’t have a lot of experience with acclimating on-line ordered fish. I’ve had more bad experiences than good trying to place fish into quarantine and keep them alive.
Most of the time I have floated the bag of fish in the tank to equalize temperature then opened the bag and drip acclimated. This drip acclimation I did was between 30 minutes to 60 minutes.
I’ve also tried the LiveAquaria drip acclimation and adding ½ cup of water to the open bag every 4 minutes similar method with similar results (fish dying within a few days). All these methods take about an hour or more.
As I check into this I understand that ammonia build-up comes very fast after opening the bag. With that said, diluting the water slowly seems to do little to effectively neutralize the ammonia built-up in the bag or container you placed the shipping water and fish into.
My thought’s now are I’ll try to have the quarantine tank’s PH and salinity close to the values of the water the fish are being shipped in as possible. With salinity a bit lower if anything. I would bring the shipping container with fish to temperature by floating for 30 minutes. Open the bag, then net or gently pouring the fish into a colander and releasing them into the quarantine tank, keeping all shipping water out of the quarantine tank.
It seems the ammonia damages the gill tissue very fast, which negates any gentle balancing of PH or salinity through drip or pouring in ½ cup of water every 4 minutes into the shipping water with the fish. It sure sounds like ammonia is the root evil here, not so much PH or salinity.
Maybe I’m looking at this procedure all wrong, thousands of fish are shipped every week, I’d like to think people have had better luck than I.
I’m hoping someone has a trick to two that might save a fish or two with my initial quarantining.
Thanks for your time…...

 

[Andy69]

The following works for me:

• Lights off
• Float bag for 30 min. to equalize temp in QT
• Check bag SG vs. QT(ok if lower)
• Qt set up @ 1.0 ppm chelated Copper
• Put livestock in qt while minimizing transfer of bag water
• Don’t feed until next day

I would also lookup humblefish’s H2O2 dip topic
Hope the above helps.

 

[chiefifd]

Hi Andy....
Yes, it does help, kinda reinforces what I'm now finding out about acclimation.
Seems like old ways are hard to break.
Very Much appreciated!

 

[Rmckoy]

I always float the bag for 30 minutes min ....

Place bag In a bucket and cut open leaving the fish in their shipping water .
Run a air hose from my dt to the bucket and create a syphon of tank water into the bucket with fish and shipping water. .
Tie a loose knot in the hose to make the drip slow .
wait for the bucket to fill ( 1-2 hours )
Catch the fish with a net and release into my dt with lights off .
This has Worked for me
For 10+years

I only remove and quarantine fish showing illness as I believe the added stress of adding to qt and back to dt only makes stress related diseases such as ich worse .

 

[chiefifd]

I really appreciate the input, what I see so far is no one that has responded is acclimating from what I thought was gospel.
Thank you so much....

 

[Andy69]

Hello!
Forgot to add:

• Invest in Hanna copper test kit - almost lost a batch because api was showing 2 for a week while Hanna shows 3.0
• Have appropriate ABX and dewormers handy
• This guy almost didn’t make it

 

[chiefifd]

Sounds Great do you do a treatment of Prazipro post Copper? Or other med?

 

[Andy69]

metro+focus or dose qt while on copper
as per recommendation of the forum experts:

• transfer to clean qt tank after 14 days
• dose prazi & repeat after 7days
• If all clear, transfer to DT after 14 days

Best of luck!
This one got lucky...

 

[chiefifd]

Thanks for your input, much appreciated;Happy!

 

[F i s h y]

I wish that online vendors would include some basic info about their systems when they send them. Like ph and salinity. Perhaps any medical treatments done at therapeutic levels and what dosages or levels if they are doing those too...

Would make things easier

 

[chiefifd]

I did reach out to one today. They were more than happy to tell me about their shipping water parameters and suggested acclimation.
The acclimation was to drip but for a very short time (no more than 10 minutes).
Hence my theory about long term acclimation and the damage ammonia does to the fishes gills the longer they're in contact with it in the shipping water.
Just not understanding why more on-line retailers believe that long term drip acclimation is the best.

 

[ca1ore]

If you quarantine .... then best practice for a long time (over a decade for me) has been to adjust the salinity of the QT tank to that of the arriving fish. Most vendors can tell you the salinity of the shipping water, if not set the QT to 1.018 and adjust as necessary (Divers Den as a notable exception). That way you float for 15 mins and then let the fish out with no further acclimation required. What could be easier. Avoid adding shipping water if you feel that’s important, but I personally see no particular reason not to just pour it all in. I use nitrofuracin green powder as an initial ‘balm’ for the fish; otherwise no other meds. Much more important to get it eating before blasting with a cocktail of stuff.

If you don’t quarantine .... I have no particular wisdom to share LOL.

 

[Zionas]

Don’t mean to hijack the thread, but should any special measures be taken when float acclimating deepwater species? What about after they’re in the tank?

 

[dyno]

I always float the bag without opening for 20 minutes. Then add 1cup or more (depending on volume if water fish was shipped in) every 5 minutes AND remove 1/2 cup water from bag until the SG is the same in the bag/tank. This removed the bad water and ads good water. I have always found that the longer a fish has traveled in a bag....the quicker you need to take it out of the shipping water. Many times with large Angels, Triggers, Tangs I float and release if bought from a LFS. Good luck!

 

[chiefifd]

I appreciate the responses. What I'm hearing is get the fish out of the shipping water after equalizing the temperature and into the tank be it the DT or the QT. Match the shipping water as close as possible with salinity if anything a bit lower.
I'm in a rural area and I'm sure the fish I receive take a few more hours to reach me than many here. So right now I'm leaning on temperature equalization along with PH and salinity as close as I can. And get the fish out of the bag and into the quarantine tank with a copper therapeutic dose. And proceed from there with any other treatments needed.
I'm not going the drip method any longer, I've had several bad outcomes doing it. I'll go over all suggestions of those that responded and be better prepared when I order on-line. I plan to get a Yellow Tang soon.
Thanks all

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have used this method for 16 years and have had excellent results.
If a fish is transferred for over 8 hours: I measure the temp, the pH, and the salinity of the bag upon arrival. If: the temp within 1-2degrees, pH within .3, salinity same or below of my qt, Then: I hand grab the fish out of the bag and place directly in tank. If these are not in line with qt, I add a bucket to the mix and get the bucket equal to the bag conditions. Then I slowly bring up the bucket to qt levels.
Now, a few times this has been different due to stress on the animals or condition of the fish. then I will float and grab out and put directly into qt.

Now, BlueZooAquatics sends an acclimation pack with every order. They give you prime and a airline hose to do the acclimation. You float for 15-20min, then open in bucket and add prime, then drip acclimate. I have done this with their livestock as directed and seemed to be okay.

I would never drip acclimate a fish from transport unless you added sufficient prime first. The ammonia is too high.

 

[chiefifd]

Hey DeniseAndy

Thanks for your help for sure. Anything I order would be much more over 8 hours away shipping time for sure.
I am very much planning to transfer the fish very much like you explain. This is the most affirmation of not doing a long term drip as I had understood prior. No wonder I've had poor luck with livestock and getting them past the quarantine process.
Thank you all so much.

 

[Nathan Milender]

I always follow the sellers recommendation and you need to watch because different sellers have different ones. I figure there may be variables for their stock I am unaware of. It also keeps things in coordination with their various warranties.That being said, for most things it is drip. No meds the first few days except prime if I suspect an ammonia issue in shipping.

The only change I make to their recommendations is to water bath the drip when it is the recommended method. For this I use tap water in a five gallon bucket and a small tank heater set to the same temp as the QT. I place a smaller 1 gallon bucket on the water from the bags and the fish go in the small bucket. A clamp will hold the bucket to the side of the larger bucket and I start the acclimation. This prevents the temp shock of a long drip where the bucket gets fairly cold compared to the QT when I place them in the QT. You do have to keep an eye on the small bucket and the drip so it does not fill up.

The only other area I have had trouble is if I do not do a 100% water change between QT runs and run a rag under the rim od the tank make sure all the slop is gone. Sometimes just shipping fish is stressful and they die and there is nothing you can do. If I lose a fish to shipping it is usually in the first day, occasionally in the second. They are generally happy in QT and sometimes QT is extended if they are really small so they can grow a bit before going into DT. No lights on QT, high flow over the top. Two airstones and lots of pipes to hide in. sponge filter. Food is flake and baby brine hatchings. If they get bold some frozen later on. Switch to medicated flake when they look good, I use chloroquine and end with prazi because it ruins the water.

 

[chiefifd]

Yes, I agree, the fish I have lost usually have been during the first day or two. That's why I came here for thoughts, my belief now is ammonia damaging the gill structure during initial acclimation. It's understandable you lose a fish now and then to stress and other circumstances out of our control. I think my losses were a bit higher than necessary, so I'm definitely changing how I acclimate fish. No more long drip acclimations for me....... In the next week or two, I'll be ordering a few fish, winter here is too harsh so I'm ready to have a little more activity in my tank.