Achilles advice... Can it work

[Kmsutows]

I'm considering getting an Achilles tang but have obvious hesitation.. I have my share of difficult fish.. ventralis anthias, copperband, but have always wanted an achillies. I have a heavy stocked 150gal. I've seen spots show up every now and then on my hippo tang. They go away and no one else gets them. That is my biggest concern. Say I add a fully QTd Achilles, if he breaks out what are the odds all the rest will? I run a 57watt uv on occasion. Any chance or experience out there that it could work or am I asking for trouble

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

I don't think a 150 gallon is a good home for an achilles tang, especially a heavily stocked 150 gallon. I would recommend at least a 180 gallon aquarium that has absolutely no history of ich or any other fish illness.

 

[Kmsutows]

I understand your concern and that is why I am asking. I don't think the size is an issue as I have good flow and feed heavy. I also hope to upgrade to a ~350-400gal. I am more seeking experience or advice in relation to disease concerns and the likelihood of other fish getting infected as a result of one more prone fish

 

[lacrosseboss18]

150g might be a little small. If you have ich in your system then once you put him in your DT he will get ich again. No matter how much QT or your QT protocol.

 

[Kmsutows]

150g might be a little small. If you have ich in your system then once you put him in your DT he will get ich again. No matter how much QT or your QT protocol.

Do Achilles ever pull through though and will it cause others that hadn't before to break out with it?

 

[lacrosseboss18]

It’s in your system. The other fish might become visibly affected when stressed. So adding an Achilles to your tank with other tangs will stress out the other fish. It’s possible.
What’s the other fish in your system?
You would have to QT all fish and leave your tank farrow to kill all life cycles of ich.

 

[lacrosseboss18]

Yes you can have an Achilles with ich and like your hippo they do fine. Might have flare up here and there. Keep them fed (lots of seaweed) and stress down, good flow and they should do well. They are considered an expert level fish

 

[Kmsutows]

It’s in your system. The other fish might become visibly affected when stressed. So adding an Achilles to your tank with other tangs will stress out the other fish. It’s possible.
What’s the other fish in your system?
You would have to QT all fish and leave your tank farrow to kill all life cycles of ich.

My biggest concern would be my anthias, ventralis, borbonius, pictillis... also copperbands butterfly to name a few. Not someone who QTs. I practice more the Paul B approach plus UV minus his ozone. I feed probably 5 times a day so hopefully not much added stress.

 

[Kmsutows]

Yes you can have an Achilles with ich and like your hippo they do fine. Might have flare up here and there. Keep them fed (lots of seaweed) and stress down, good flow and they should do well. They are considered an expert level fish

This is the type of response I was hoping to see but realize shouldn't go off just the response I want to hear.

 

[lacrosseboss18]

How soon are you planning to upgrade to a larger tank?
You have to think of stress for a fish. Just feeding them often isn’t enough. Every time you put your hand in the tank, open your hood... your stressing out your fish. If fish A is swimming and B gets in the way that’s stress. If they both go for the same piece of food that’s stressful. Granted yes a well fed fish has a better immune system.

They are amazing fish. My favorite one.

They are a hard fish to keep. I’m pretty sure the aquarium by me has a huge reef tank and only one Achilles in the whole system.
Check out this video

 

[eatbreakfast]

IME achilles tangs are one of the most susceptible fish to marine parasites, such as ich and marine velvet.

They are also one of the more aggressive tangs. So they can easily stress out other fish, making them more likely to show symptoms.

The Paul B method also understocks and for most fish uses smaller fish.

Also, 180g is on the small side for an achilles, let alone a 150g.

 

[Kmsutows]

IME achilles tangs are one of the most susceptible fish to marine parasites, such as ich and marine velvet.

They are also one of the more aggressive tangs. So they can easily stress out other fish, making them more likely to show symptoms.

The Paul B method also understocks and for most fish uses smaller fish.

Also, 180g is on the small side for an achilles, let alone a 150g.

I just read a post from Paul B where he mentions he has an over stocked tank but I guess we all have differing opinions of overstocked.

I recently read a write up on Achilles which got me more intrigued enough to post this thread in which the author has I think 5 variants of the Acanthurus all in an 80gal with no issue. He works for a retailer and has quite a following for hard to get fish. Do I think it's possible to have one in a 150 and keep it happy along with the rest of my fish with a good diet and high flow? Absolutely, aside from my 2 female ventralis anthias that may be too stressed.

I will hold off until I upgrade, unless I see a very small Achilles I may end up trying but never do see them very small

 

[lacrosseboss18]

IME achilles tangs are one of the most susceptible fish to marine parasites, such as ich and marine velvet.

They are also one of the more aggressive tangs. So they can easily stress out other fish, making them more likely to show symptoms.

The Paul B method also understocks and for most fish uses smaller fish.

Also, 180g is on the small side for an achilles, let alone a 150g.

Correct. PaulB has a pretty stocked tank. A lot of pipe fish, mandarins, scooter blennys... a pair of clowns, wrasses and anthias, Copperband. He has a passion for the abnormal. I’m lucky enough to be local to him and I get to pick his brain whenever we run into one another. Great guy. He’s like a mad scientist but in a great way which makes what he does hard to reproduce.

 

[andrewkw]

If you are going to attempt an Achilles in your 150 at the very least I'd catch all your other fish first treat them for ich and leave the tank fallow for 76 days. Then add back the fish + Achilles.

I had one for a bit over 2 years in a 180, he did fine in this tank size after about 100 days of qt prior to adding him to the tank. I just had one other tang (chevron) who was much bigger and took some beatings. He also fought with masked swallowtail angels but nothing as serious. Anyway I moved long distance and he had to spend about 6 weeks in a 3 foot 90 which was exactly half the size of the 180. Now he had already spent 100 days in a 55 by himself plus an additional 76 days as I got ich one time from a non fish addition which caused me catch all the fish and go fallow.

He was fine in the 55g both times in qt with copper, ate, grew ect, but when he was in the makeshift reef holding tank he attacked other fish to the point of killing them and lost some weight. During my move the 180g broke so I had no choice but to move him to my 5 foot 112. It wasn't that much smaller then the 180, but he never recovered from the moving and being placed in a smaller tank, over the course of about 3 months he wasted away and died. This was a 100% disease free tank. A lot of people mentioned a 180 was too small and my guy was not full grown but I think 180 is an okay size as long as it's not overstocked as he will pick on other fish and has lots of flow. Flow is very important for them since they come from the surge zones.

In the future when this hawaii business is sorted out and I once again have a larger tank an Achilles will again become my center piece fish. That being said I wouldn't attempt to keep one again unless I planned on quarantining everything wet. The odds of getting ich or anything else from a non fish creature are slim, but if it comes in the Achilles will get it. He was relatively easy to treat but the problem is once the tank is infected what do you do with all the other fish ect. When I had to break down my tank I had to keep all my fish in kiddie pools where as I kept the achilles separate and used copper instead of ttm not because he couldn't handle the ttm but because he would beat up and potentially kill other small fish in close quarters. Besides their beauty the nice thing about these fish is if you have a healthy one you almost certainly have a disease free tank. They are prone to everything. Besides the ich I've already mentioned several times mine also had flukes initially.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Paul B's stocklist:
1 Copperband
2 mandarins
3 striped cardinals
1 Possum Wrasse
2 Fireclowns
1 Leopard Wrasse
1 Perchlet looking thing
2 Queen Anthias
1 Blue Striped pipefish
1 Janss Pipefish
1 Bleeny

While that seems like a lot of fish, except for the copperband, are all relatively small, and except for the clowns are all very peaceful. Paul B is bored by tangs, so doesn't keep them.

By already seeing ich pop up on some of your fish shows that the tank's inhabitants haven't reached a stage of immunity yet. An achilles tang in the mix will only exacerbate immunity issues.

 

[Kmsutows]

How soon are you planning to upgrade to a larger tank?
You have to think of stress for a fish. Just feeding them often isn’t enough. Every time you put your hand in the tank, open your hood... your stressing out your fish. If fish A is swimming and B gets in the way that’s stress. If they both go for the same piece of food that’s stressful. Granted yes a well fed fish has a better immune system.

They are amazing fish. My favorite one.

They are a hard fish to keep. I’m pretty sure the aquarium by me has a huge reef tank and only one Achilles in the whole system.
Check out this video

Just finished watching the whole video... awesome! Simply awesome!!

 

[Kmsutows]

I have told my retailer that I'll pass on the beautiful 4" Achilles for now. Once I upgrade i will definitely be getting one!

 

[Gablami]

I would agree that my Achilles is a super sensitive fish to ich. He was the first one to show ich when I had an outbreak, and I basically ran fallow to keep an Achilles in the tank.

Catching 20 fish, mass TTM, setting up a holding tank, running fallow for 76 days, was the hardest thing I’ve had to do as a reefer yet. If you want to keep an Achilles, you have to be ready to do that. You can try to risk it and see how things go with the uv and good husbandry, but be ready to go fallow. Best recommendation is to just go fallow upfront. I am not as worried about your other fish.

Anyways seems like your decision has been made, but that’s my experience.

 

[nereefpat]

Looks like the OP made his/her decision, and made the right one, imo.

I would never recommend an Achilles for a tank that had ich present. Not everyone thoroughly QTs and prophylacticly treats for ich, and that's okay, but that specific fish would be a bad bet.

 

[Kmsutows]

Looks like the OP made his/her decision, and made the right one, imo.

I would never recommend an Achilles for a tank that had ich present. Not everyone thoroughly QTs and prophylacticly treats for ich, and that's okay, but that specific fish would be a bad bet.

I actually did get the Achilles last fall... and just recently added a mustard and a powder blue. Believe it or not all is well.

It's worked out well for me so I think it all depends on what you're prepared for. I feed a ton and run my UV when I feel it may be needed. I got my Achilles and ran the uv for a few weeks then turned it off. He got a couple spots and turned it back on for a few nights and haven't seen any spots since. I added the mustard and powder blue 2 weeks ago and no signs of ich. I have had the UV off for a few days now.