Achilles in QT, doing TTM, breathing rapidly

[Biff0rz]

I've had the Achilles in qt / ttm for 7 days. Just moments ago he ate, and since I got him he's been eating - today he's not eating as vigorously as before. I noticed he popped twice in the tank today, both time green. Since I got him he's been breathing heavy but today seems worse and he's swimming differently (see vid). I've done one prazi treatment on 1/31. I have an airstone and powerhead in the tank, the tank is open top. I tested for ammonia and nitrites, both 0. I did a water change for good measure anyways. These videos are just after feeding him, so it's a little dirty. I took some video w flow on and off. Also, he has some sort of growth on his rear surgeon spine, yellow in color.

Things I haven't done-
Treat w copper
2nd dose of prazi
Fw dip
Treat w metro/kana

Thoughts?

78*
35ppt
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Water change today
Eating

W flow

No flow

 

[Hedgedrew]

what copper ?? is he still in ?? he looks in trouble sorry to say.

 

[Greg P]

What are you feeding?
Just to rule things out, have you tested NO3?
What NH3 and NO2 kits are you using?
Flow in first video looks a bit too much. Your dude needs calmer water in a small stressful tank.

Growth kinda looks like lymphocystis.
How often and what percentage of WCs are you performing, and are you using some kind of mechanical filtration?

 

[Biff0rz]

what copper ?? is he still in ?? he looks in trouble sorry to say.

No copper. I agree, not sure of next steps.

What are you feeding?
Just to rule things out, have you tested NO3?
What NH3 and NO2 kits are you using?
Flow in first video looks a bit too much. Your dude needs calmer water in a small stressful tank.

Growth kinda looks like lymphocystis.
How often and what percentage of WCs are you performing, and are you using some kind of mechanical filtration?

Feeding mysis, particulated nori, extreme seaweed pellets.

I have not tested no3.

Nh3 is salifert, no2 is red sea

Ok, I can turn it down, do you think maybe he's just stressed? I do have a fish less coral qt I could move him to, it has no corals currently and I'd rather save this guy above all.

Lymphocytis is just a wait out type of thing right?
I have him in ttm so every 36 hours he goes into a new tank. He's currently in a 72hr cycle so it was 30hrs before today's water change. No filtration. Are you familiar with tank transfer method? He changes tanks every few days, it avoid ammonia etc but I did a water change anyways to be safe. I tested water prior to the water change.

 

[crvz]

This is counter convention, but I find executing a quarantine a huge challenge on the fish. If you don’t have a fully established system for the qt, then I personally find the risks of problems during QT higher than the risks of importing pests in the display. Putting a fish in a more natural environment as opposed to a sterile QT has been a lot more successful with challenging species, including my Achilles tang. Now, that’s my personal conviction, certainly not discreet advice for this scenario at this point.

super pretty Achilles tang. Do you have a larger space you could treat it? And could you add more places for it to chill out? Not sure medically what would help, but giving it more space and things to graze on might help.

 

[Greg P]

No copper. I agree, not sure of next steps.


Feeding mysis, particulated nori, extreme seaweed pellets.

I have not tested no3.

Nh3 is salifert, no2 is red sea

Ok, I can turn it down, do you think maybe he's just stressed? I do have a fish less coral qt I could move him to, it has no corals currently and I'd rather save this guy above all.

Lymphocytis is just a wait out type of thing right?
I have him in ttm so every 36 hours he goes into a new tank. He's currently in a 72hr cycle so it was 30hrs before today's water change. No filtration. Are you familiar with tank transfer method? He changes tanks every few days, it avoid ammonia etc but I did a water change anyways to be safe. I tested water prior to the water change.

Test kit brands are good. Food looks good too.
Sorry I forgot you mentioned you're doing TTM. Yes I'm familiar with it but have never employed it.
Lympho is a wait it out thing but needs clean water to clear up. Consider using some mechanical filtration as I see more stuff floating around than I'd like. Not saying it's your issue, but rather that I like clean water in a QT.

Could be the powerhead is becoming an issue. Try angling it upwards for more aeration/less tank circulation. It may be the poor little dude is working out too much.

What salt are you using and how long after mixing are you using it? Freshly-mixed synthetic saltwater can have NH3 and low pH.
I use a powerhead to agitate the surface of fresh mixes before use. I also keep it heated to the same temp for quick use.

Also consider using a nori clip instead of just stuff floating around. I feel it'll help it calm down having a stable food source location.

Don't cross-contaminate your coral QT.
After the work you've already gone through, just carry on with the TTM, but keep enough fresh circulating and heated saltwater on hand just in case you need to perform a massive WC in the current QT without moving him/her.

 

[Biff0rz]

This is counter convention, but I find executing a quarantine a huge challenge on the fish. If you don’t have a fully established system for the qt, then I personally find the risks of problems during QT higher than the risks of importing pests in the display. Putting a fish in a more natural environment as opposed to a sterile QT has been a lot more successful with challenging species, including my Achilles tang. Now, that’s my personal conviction, certainly not discreet advice for this scenario at this point.

super pretty Achilles tang. Do you have a larger space you could treat it? And could you add more places for it to chill out? Not sure medically what would help, but giving it more space and things to graze on might help.

Right, I did this with my cbb, he was my first fish added directly to the display. Over a year later and he's thriving, zero issues. I have two 20gL - one is the coral qt, the other is the hospital tank, both are fully established. I'm hesitant to add more hiding spots as it'll take up room, but, I do have more elbows.

Test kit brands are good. Food looks good too.
Sorry I forgot you mentioned you're doing TTM. Yes I'm familiar with it but have never employed it.
Lympho is a wait it out thing but needs clean water to clear up. Consider using some mechanical filtration as I see more stuff floating around than I'd like. Not saying it's your issue, but rather that I like clean water in a QT.

Yea, its not great but during ttm I don't use a hob. I'd be worried if I was showing any signs of no2/nh3 but I'm not. So small water changes helps and prevents the need imo.

Could be the powerhead is becoming an issue. Try angling it upwards for more aeration/less tank circulation. It may be the poor little dude is working out too much.

That was sort of my thought, and maybe he's stressed because of it. I've turned it off for the night and also turned off the light, hoping that helps calm him.

What salt are you using and how long after mixing are you using it? Freshly-mixed synthetic saltwater can have NH3 and low pH.
I use a powerhead to agitate the surface of fresh mixes before use. I also keep it heated to the same temp for quick use.

I use tm pro. The water I'm using has been mixed for a few weeks. I take some from my saltwater container into buckets and heat them.

Also consider using a nori clip instead of just stuff floating around. I feel it'll help it calm down having a stable food source location.

I did have some pvc in there w nori rubber banded against it. He tends to eat more out of the water column, so I've been doing both, it's just not in the video.

Don't cross-contaminate your coral QT.
After the work you've already gone through, just carry on with the TTM, but keep enough fresh circulating and heated saltwater on hand just in case you need to perform a massive WC in the current QT without moving him/her.

Yea I have some heating and airating now . I am worried it's something more. And to be honest, if he has to go in the coral qt... I'm fine with it for THIS fish. I'll set up another one and wait a cycle lol.

 

[Greg P]

My QT is in my office with minimal daylight and I only run the tank light for 8 hours/day, and it's just a 15w bulb on a 20g tall. Basically it's very low light and is not even enough for me to see parasites, but it keeps the fish calm. When I turn on the room light they get spooked so it takes time for me to acclimate them to my presence.
I tend to hang out with them for hours so they get used to my being around.

I'd not turn off your powerhead but rather consider pointing it towards the surface for exchange and maybe into a corner to alleviate/adjust the flow, and instead remove the airstone. It's unnatural and may freak it out some.

 

[Biff0rz]

To my surprise, the fish made it through the night. He's still breathing very rapidly. I have a 20gL that's established, think I should move him there - or - I have a 20L that I can set up new. Net sure what to do next to help his breathing calm.

 

[Biff0rz]

He's doing better in the established bigger tank, he ate immediately, still breathing super fast

 

[Biff0rz]

Doing even better today, whoohoo! The water is yellow due to guidance from Jay to do a dose of ABX, plus feeding and bubbles in there...but hes happy!

 

[crvz]

That’s awesome, glad to hear!

 

[tgrick]

I'm thrilled he is doing better. Great news. I am worried about 2 things. They are:

1) Flukes
2) Velvet

You see nothing on his scales so let's assume it's not velvet. Move on to Flukes. The only quick solution is a fresh water dip. It's freaks them out but I HAVE NEVER lost a fish in my 40 years doing this. You match temperature, USE RODI water, and you aerate the water for about 30 mins before you place the fish in the water. IF YOU DO THIS, it's a maximum of 5 mins! They go nuts and then about a minute into it they relax. Look for flukes at the bottom of the container. They are clear and very hard to spot.

If you do not do this I understand. Things are looking up and that's a great thing. I mention this because it gives you an easy tool. A tool that works.

 

[Biff0rz]

I'm thrilled he is doing better. Great news. I am worried about 2 things. They are:

1) Flukes
2) Velvet

You see nothing on his scales so let's assume it's not velvet. Move on to Flukes. The only quick solution is a fresh water dip. It's freaks them out but I HAVE NEVER lost a fish in my 40 years doing this. You match temperature, USE RODI water, and you aerate the water for about 30 mins before you place the fish in the water. IF YOU DO THIS, it's a maximum of 5 mins! They go nuts and then about a minute into it they relax. Look for flukes at the bottom of the container. They are clear and very hard to spot.

If you do not do this I understand. Things are looking up and that's a great thing. I mention this because it gives you an easy tool. A tool that works.

Thanks! He'd be dead by now if it was velvet. His breathing has improved and he's doing very well. I plan to do two more rounds of prazi to take care of any flukes if they are there. I did a fw dip and lost a gem tang, sucked. Water was temp matched and airated, he was only in for 4min. That said, I'd still do it if I had to.

 

[flagg37]

I'm thrilled he is doing better. Great news. I am worried about 2 things. They are:

1) Flukes
2) Velvet

You see nothing on his scales so let's assume it's not velvet. Move on to Flukes. The only quick solution is a fresh water dip. It's freaks them out but I HAVE NEVER lost a fish in my 40 years doing this. You match temperature, USE RODI water, and you aerate the water for about 30 mins before you place the fish in the water. IF YOU DO THIS, it's a maximum of 5 mins! They go nuts and then about a minute into it they relax. Look for flukes at the bottom of the container. They are clear and very hard to spot.

If you do not do this I understand. Things are looking up and that's a great thing. I mention this because it gives you an easy tool. A tool that works.

Doesn’t the prazi treatment take care of the flukes?

 

[Biff0rz]

Hey all, good update here! I added the Achilles to my hospital tank. He recovered, I think the small tank size was stressing him. Anyways, I ended up dosing prazi 2x and a few more things and he just completed 40ish days of QT. I got him all fattened up and introduced him to the tank yesterday. He's been socially accepted thus far. Just the occasional tail flap from the purple, yellow, and blueface. Fingers crossed!