Acorbic Acid as a carbon source!!

[jgalen0025]

I have been having low nutrient issues in my tank for about a month and I just realized that larry's reef frenzy frozen food I just started using about a month ago has ascorbic acid in it. From what I understand this is used and acts like a carbon source like vinegar. I also started using the food around the same time I started having problems which have been getting progressively worse. SPS tissue thinning, growth slowing, and brown dot algae growing over coraline. I hope this is not the problem but I will stop using it and see if nitrates and phophates rise.


The reason I believe this is the issue is because I have been feeding alot more ( two large pinches of pellet 1 cube of cyclops and mysis), especially LRS (approximately 1inch by 1.5 inch piece/day) to try and increase nitrates but I havent been able to do anything. I also do not have any algae except that all of my coraline algae is starting to get covered in what looks like brown diatoms but I am not sure. The coraline growth was awesome untill around the same time and then it started to get algae growth over and stop growing. The algae looks like little dark brown dusty dots (not like anything I have ever seen)


Any insight? Especially with Ascorbic acid as a carbon source!
My system
4 month old upgrade with 2 year old rock/water
180 plus 70 gal sump
sps dom
10 fish
alk stable at 8.5
ca 440
mg1400




Thanks

 

[jgalen0025]

I have been having low nutrient issues in my tank for about a month and I just realized that larry's reef frenzy frozen food I just started using about a month ago has ascorbic acid in it. From what I understand this is used and acts like a carbon source like vinegar. I also started using the food around the same time I started having problems which have been getting progressively worse. SPS tissue thinning, growth slowing, and brown dot algae growing over coraline. I hope this is not the problem but I will stop using it and see if nitrates and phophates rise.


The reason I believe this is the issue is because I have been feeding alot more ( two large pinches of pellet 1 cube of cyclops and mysis), especially LRS (approximately 1inch by 1.5 inch piece/day) to try and increase nitrates but I havent been able to do anything. I also do not have any algae except that all of my coraline algae is starting to get covered in what looks like brown diatoms but I am not sure. The coraline growth was awesome untill around the same time and then it started to get algae growth over and stop growing. The algae looks like little dark brown dusty dots (not like anything I have ever seen)


Any insight? Especially with Ascorbic acid as a carbon source!
My system
4 month old upgrade with 2 year old rock/water
180 plus 70 gal sump
sps dom
10 fish
alk stable at 8.5
ca 440
mg1400




Thanks

I also only GAC and No other equipment other than a remote deep sand bed

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I literally POUR "straight" Asorbic Acid into all my tanks for years. It's good for the fish and they can absorb it systemically through their gills. My coralline is crazy to the point it gets irritating.

 

[-Logzor]

I literally POUR "straight" Asorbic Acid into all my tanks for years. It's good for the fish and they can absorb it systemically through their gills. My coralline is crazy to the point it gets irritating.

What product do you use?

 

[jgalen0025]

I literally POUR "straight" Asorbic Acid into all my tanks for years. It's good for the fish and they can absorb it systemically through their gills. My coralline is crazy to the point it gets irritating.

I would love to know where the science behind the claim that fish absorb it and what effect it has if any (Edit: nevermind, for another thread). Coraline growth likely has nothing to do with ascorbic acid dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don't know how much is in the foods, but I agree that it will act as an organic carbon source.

Lots of people have dosed it, however, as some people thought it very useful (perhaps beyond what an organic carbon source does) and some didn't see any benefit or even some detriments. I'll have to go back and refresh my memory of what issues some folks saw as I don't really recall what they were or how significant they were.

 

[-Logzor]

I don't know how much is in the foods, but I agree that it will act as an organic carbon source.

Lots of people have dosed it, however, as some people thought it very useful (perhaps beyond what an organic carbon source does) and some didn't see any benefit or even some detriments. I'll have to go back and refresh my memory of what issues some folks saw as I don't really recall what they were or how significant they were.

What type of bulk acorbic acid would be best for a reef tank? I did a quick search, they sell bulk powder for really cheap, but how would you mix it? The pre-made stuff by brightwell and other companies are insanely expensive. Brightwell's vitamin c says it's 1,500 mg per oz. It is simple as mixing what much of the bulk powder with 1 oz of water?

 

[jgalen0025]

What type of bulk acorbic acid would be best for a reef tank? I did a quick search, they sell bulk powder for really cheap, but how would you mix it? The pre-made stuff by brightwell and other companies are insanely expensive. Brightwell's vitamin c says it's 1,500 mg per oz. It is simple as mixing what much of the bulk powder with 1 oz of water?

Please keep the thread on topic and use pm or research if needed
thanks:smile:

 

[-Logzor]

Please keep the thread on topic and use pm or research if needed
thanks:smile:

Sorry about that! As a response to your original post, I think the amount of ascorbic acid in the reef frenzy food is so small, this is probably not the issue. If you were dosing large amount of ascorbic acid then I think it would be suspect.

You are feeding way too much in my opinion. You're feeding more in one day then I do in an entire week The reef frenzy food is incredibly potent and you only need a very small amount. I'm guessing the issue is high nitrates and high phosphates, not the ascorbic acid.

In my 150g reef with 20+ fish I only feed two pinches of pellets per day and I feed about a 3/4" x 3/4" piece of reef frenzy once per week. I maintain my nutrients even with this minimal feeding.

If you are trying to increase nitrates then nitrate dosing might be a better option for you, by heavy feeding you're also boosting phosphate with is causing your SPS to suffer.

 

[46gReef]

How is that off topic?.....Anyway, I dosed ascobic acid for about a year 3 years or so ago when my reef was 3 years old. The reason I was dosing was because at the time it was believed that you could increase zoa coloration by dosing and I had(&still have)many zoas in my system. While I did not notice any coloration increase I did notice a decrease in algae in my display and after about a month or so of dosing all my macro in my sump died. The research I did, & keep in mind this was 3 years ago and why I was dosing, said to monitor kH closely. I started dosing 1/4 tsp once a day, after 2 weeks moved to twice a day, after a month went to 1/2tsp. Twice a day. This was for a 50 gallon total system volume. I would mix it in distilled water and add it to my sump. Hope this helps.

 

[46gReef]

The powder I used was 1000mg. Of vitamin c per 1/4 tsp.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I would love to know where the science behind the claim that fish absorb it and what effect it has if any (Edit: nevermind, for another thread). Coraline growth likely has nothing to do with ascorbic acid dosing.

I got the data, if you start a thread.

Logzor, I use a powder. No brand name.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Please keep the thread on topic and use pm or research if needed
thanks:smile:

FWIW, it seems to me that asking where to get it and what form to use is a perfectly reasonable part of a thread whose title is "Ascorbic acid as a carbon source".

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I literally POUR "straight" Asorbic Acid into all my tanks for years. It's good for the fish and they can absorb it systemically through their gills. My coralline is crazy to the point it gets irritating.

I lied. I finished the "no-name" and am now into Rovimix Stay-C 35.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What type of bulk acorbic acid would be best for a reef tank? I did a quick search, they sell bulk powder for really cheap, but how would you mix it? The pre-made stuff by brightwell and other companies are insanely expensive. Brightwell's vitamin c says it's 1,500 mg per oz. It is simple as mixing what much of the bulk powder with 1 oz of water?

As to the type, it depends on how much you dose.

If you dose sodium ascorbate, the alkalinity may slowly rise over time as that is also an alkalinity source. Also the consumption of nitrate when dosing organic carbon can also boost alkalinity a bit.

if you dose ascorbic acid, that will tend to reduce pH, but not have a lasting impact on alkalinity (assuming it is metabolized as opposed to building up in teh water).

Since all carbon sources tend to reduce nutrients, sometimes that can increase calcification by corals. If that happened, alkalinity would tend to decline.

I'd look for a food grade supplement product.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I've bought from HERE a few times. I've tested the ascorbic acid levels and they were awesome. Some I've ordered haven't really tested positive for any..... it's very unstable.

 

[-Logzor]

As to the type, it depends on how much you dose.

If you dose sodium ascorbate, the alkalinity may slowly rise over time as that is also an alkalinity source. Also the consumption of nitrate when dosing organic carbon can also boost alkalinity a bit.

if you dose ascorbic acid, that will tend to reduce pH, but not have a lasting impact on alkalinity (assuming it is metabolized as opposed to building up in teh water).

Since all carbon sources tend to reduce nutrients, sometimes that can increase calcification by corals. If that happened, alkalinity would tend to decline.

I'd look for a food grade supplement product.

Interesting, using the sodium ascorbate, how much alkalinity are we talking compared to your two-part?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Interesting, using the sodium ascorbate, how much alkalinity are we talking compared to your two-part?

Each 1 gram of sodium ascorbate contains 5 milliequivalents of alkalinity.

So adding 1 gram to 100 liters of water boosts the alkalinity 0.05 meq/l or 0.14 dKH.

Not much for a single addition, but in a tank with little or no demand, it may add up.