Acro killer sadness... any tips?

pa1ntbru5h · Oct 5, 2017

Bouncingsoul39 said:
If it really was an issue with nutrients, your LPS and softies would be having issues, which they aren't, right? And you said you feed a ton so I don't understand why others keep saying its nutrients. Anyway, the test results will be interesting. I still suggest carbon in a reactor and water changes in the meantime.

It's possible to feed a lot and still have low nutrients. Adding carbon is just adding even more filtration and polishing the water more when he's already at 0 nutrients.

Salty-Sailor · Oct 5, 2017

pa1ntbru5h said:
I think the nutrients are your issue.
Yes, it is indeed possible to have thriving ULNS systems. But if you're not dosing all the amino acids constantly, I would suggest you start slowly raising your nitrate and phosphate and at least keep the tank "low nutrient" rather than pegging it at zero.

I went through this same exact thing with my tank, except the acros weren't dying, they just weren't growing and the colors weren't great. Ever since I raised my nutrients I've been seeing way better color and growth from all my corals.
I'm only at 2 ppm nitrates so you don't need to do a whole lot, you just don't want it pegged at zero. Follow the Redfield Ratio to keep your Nitrate and Phosphates in balance.

We tend to over-do our filtration and nutrient export. When I started my tank I was trying everything to keep my water clean. I had an overpowered skimmer, carbon and gfo, chaeto reactor, and microbubbling.

I've since learned that if your water is too clean, there is no food for the corals.
Fish poop is your best friend.
Now, I just run my skimmer and a tiny tiny bit of carbon and gfo.

EDIT:

Also, for alkalinity. Anything between 7-11 dkh is fine as long as you keep it stable.

But it's not always about your water parameters.. Make sure you have enough flow in your tank! Flow is a pretty big factor and SPS like a pretty good amount of flow. And yes lack of flow can cause SPS to die.

my first tank i over fed and had poor filtration so i had hair algae that i hated and it burned me into thinking overkill was better but im defiantly learning that isnt really true. trying to find the perfect balance.

i feel like im adding so many coral foods and amino acids and fish food that its insane to have 0 nutrients. i had the LFS test water as well to make sure i didnt have dud kits but they havent got any readings either on my tank.

flow is perfect for sure. i have random flow nozzles on my return line lock line and mp40, mp10 & a gyre running at 10%

pa1ntbru5h · Oct 5, 2017

Salty-Sailor said:
my first tank i over fed and had poor filtration so i had hair algae that i hated and it burned me into thinking overkill was better but im defiantly learning that isnt really true. trying to find the perfect balance.

i feel like im adding so many coral foods and amino acids and fish food that its insane to have 0 nutrients. i had the LFS test water as well to make sure i didnt have dud kits but they havent got any readings either on my tank.

flow is perfect for sure. i have random flow nozzles on my return line lock line and mp40, mp10 & a gyre running at 10%

Sounds like you have plenty of flow. I honestly believe it's a nutrient issue then. I went through a very similar thing with my tank.
I could feed as much as I wanted to, but my nutrients were still pegged at 0. And you could definitely tell by looking at my corals. They weren't keeping their vibrant colors and were a bit bleek looking.
It actually took me months to figure out what the issue was. I kept telling everyone that my water parameters were stable, and I assured everyone that there was nothing wrong with my water.. Little did I know that your water can be TOO clean

Salty-Sailor · Oct 5, 2017

Bouncingsoul39 said:
If it really was an issue with nutrients, your LPS and softies would be having issues, which they aren't, right? And you said you feed a ton so I don't understand why others keep saying its nutrients. Anyway, the test results will be interesting. I still suggest carbon in a reactor and water changes in the meantime.

LPS are showing sign now but because i was spot feeding straight into there mouth they weren't requiring food or nutrients in the water column (is what my mind thinks)

Salty-Sailor · Oct 5, 2017

pa1ntbru5h said:
Sounds like you have plenty of flow. I honestly believe it's a nutrient issue then. I went through a very similar thing with my tank.
I could feed as much as I wanted to, but my nutrients were still pegged at 0. And you could definitely tell by looking at my corals. They weren't keeping their vibrant colors and were a bit bleek looking.

thats defiantly it but at what point is a ridiculous amount of food turn into a new problem?

Bouncingsoul39 · Oct 5, 2017

pa1ntbru5h said:
It's possible to feed a lot and still have low nutrients. Adding carbon is just adding even more mechanical filtration and polishing the water more when he's already at 0 nutrients.

Carbon is chemical filtration bro, not mechanical. I suggest to use it in case of Allelopathy or to remove other toxins that may be in his tank that there is not a test kit for. It's common sense. He's not at 0 nutrients. Read the first post. He can have high nutrients that are being uptaken by all his biological filter media resulting in low tests.

pa1ntbru5h · Oct 5, 2017

I would recommend using stump remover to raise your nitrates slowly.
There's a KNO3 calculator somewhere on the net that tells you how many grams to dilute into water and then dose that based on the size of your tank. I started by dosing my tank with 0.5 ppm every night until I started seeing the Nitrates stay around 1.5 - 2 ppms

Bouncingsoul39 · Oct 5, 2017

Salty-Sailor said:
LPS are showing sign now but because i was spot feeding straight into there mouth they weren't requiring food or nutrients in the water column (is what my mind thinks)

Then start dosing amino acids and SPS specific foods and see what happens. Even if you are target feeding LPS, that matter still exists in the tank, it doesn't disappear into thin air, that is still nutrients going into the water.

pa1ntbru5h · Oct 5, 2017

Bouncingsoul39 said:
Carbon is chemical filtration bro, not mechanical. I suggest to use it in case of Allelopathy or to remove other toxins that may be in his tank that there is not a test kit for. It's common sense. He's not at 0 nutrients. Read the first post. He can have high nutrients that are being uptaken by all his biological filter media resulting in low tests.

yes you're right it is chemical filtration. my mistake. And you are also right that he's technically not at 0 nutrients.. It's just that his tank is eating it all up AND his filtration is taking out a ton as well. Which means he doesn't have enough nutrients to feed his coral

Salty-Sailor · Oct 5, 2017

Bouncingsoul39 said:
Then start dosing amino acids and SPS specific foods and see what happens. Even if you are target feeding LPS, that matter still exists in the tank, it doesn't disappear into thin air, that is still nutrients going into the water.

i am dosing amino's (red sea reef energy) and the brightwell product as well is a sps food along with reef roids can be consumed by acros as well. its just not enough apparently.

Potatohead · Oct 5, 2017

I think it's typical young tank syndrome. Nobody really knows why but unless you started with real live rock it generally takes 15-18 months for acros to really thrive.

Salty-Sailor · Oct 5, 2017

Potatohead said:
I think it's typical young tank syndrome. Nobody really knows why but unless you started with real live rock it generally takes 15-18 months for acros to really thrive.

I did start with all real live Haitian rock. Most all the rock, tank and equipment is completely covered in red and purple coralline & even a bunch of sponge on the rock as well. i understand the tank is young still would think its not gonna kill acros.

teller · Oct 5, 2017

Bouncingsoul39 said:
Carbon is chemical filtration bro, not mechanical. I suggest to use it in case of Allelopathy or to remove other toxins that may be in his tank that there is not a test kit for. It's common sense. He's not at 0 nutrients. Read the first post. He can have high nutrients that are being uptaken by all his biological filter media resulting in low tests.

Sorry to say . But you did not read the first post.
0 nitrates....a lot of nutrient exports at the same time.....etc

teller · Oct 5, 2017

Do you have other SPSs than acros?
Just for comparation in behavior?

drawman · Oct 5, 2017

Salty-Sailor said:
i will research those now and maybe start off with a little and see where i get.

ive heard stomp remover as well can bring nutrients up but that sounds very drastic.

Yes stump remover is commonly used it's potassium nitrate. If you search on this forum there are great threads to use as a reference. I myself have used sodium nitrate just because I was more confident of the source. I also have used bottled phosphate from Brightwell.

Bouncingsoul39 said:
If it really was an issue with nutrients, your LPS and softies would be having issues, which they aren't, right? And you said you feed a ton so I don't understand why others keep saying its nutrients. Anyway, the test results will be interesting. I still suggest carbon in a reactor and water changes in the meantime.

Not necessarily. Acros will likely be the first to cave and tend to react more dramatically to low nutrients and it's common to browning followed by STN/RTN in these situations. If raising nutrients does not provide a result then a contaminant may be the next consideration. Low nutrients are more likely to be the cause IMO with all the nutrient reduction elements he has in this tank.

pa1ntbru5h said:
Sounds like you have plenty of flow. I honestly believe it's a nutrient issue then. I went through a very similar thing with my tank.
I could feed as much as I wanted to, but my nutrients were still pegged at 0. And you could definitely tell by looking at my corals. They weren't keeping their vibrant colors and were a bit bleek looking.
It actually took me months to figure out what the issue was. I kept telling everyone that my water parameters were stable, and I assured everyone that there was nothing wrong with my water.. Little did I know that your water can be TOO clean

+1

tripdad · Oct 5, 2017

Not to wade into an argument....but please be aware that acros and lps, softies feed in very different ways. LPS and softies generally have very visible feeding tentacles and mouths, they can pull large particulate food , like what your feeding, in and digest it. Acros feed on very fine size food and draw nutrients from the water column as well as food through the algae inside them through photosynthesis. You can dump all the food you want in the tank but if your export system pulls it out before the acros can get hold of it they will starve. You need 3 things 1) flow, enough, random, to remove the boundary layer around the acro so it can shed waste and take up nutrients. 2) light strong, sufficient wavelengths for acros..see Big E's thread for a great explanation on this. 3) food of a correct size, type that the acros can digest. In theory the symbiotic algae can supply all it's needs but then your corals would be brown. Because we like colorful corals we diminish the algae population to see the colors. therefore we have to add food that they can actually take up. It's a balancing act, especially in a mixed reef. You will get there, just be patient. Look at some great SPS tank threads and read carefully, you'll find what your missing. Sooner or later it will jump out at you as you know your tank best.