Acro STN From Base Up?

heifinator · May 29, 2020

I've got a few acros in my tank that have begun to STN from the base up recently. It is not all of my acros, most are doing great, even the ones STN'ing have great color and PE.

I am wondering if maybe starvation due to no PO4 could be the issue? Nothing is really "pale" but the only parameter I found that was worrysome was my Po4 which I checked with a hanna ULR checker @ 0, twice.

I dosed a bit of Neophos +0.02ppm and retested an hour later and got a reading of 4 on the hannna (0.012). The next morning it was back down to 0.

I do have a pretty good sized refugium with a very strong light on it. But I am really not sure if low PO4 can cause STN like this (from base up mostly), with good coloration???

Full parameters.

SG - 1.026
Calc - 420
Alk - 7.8-8.0 (checked morning and night to make sure not swinging)
Mag - 1250
Temp - 78-78.5
Nitrate - 10
Po4 - 0 (undetectable)

Thanks all for any advice

flyfisherman · May 29, 2020

Thats terrible. Mag looks low. Make sure your ph is above 8 and not swinging all over the place.

Crustaceon · May 29, 2020

If I see stn it’s typically due to bottoming out Po4. It’s almost always the case IME. Actually, It was the case yesterday. This is the exact reason why I stopped running macro algae last year and why I just took my biopellet reactor out of my system. I saw the first signs on a small frag, hanna checked and sure enough, the pellets zeroed Po4. Out it went and in went some flourish phosphorus. Back to .1ppm Po4 and STAY THERE, lol.

Pdash · May 30, 2020

heifinator said:
I've got a few acros in my tank that have begun to STN from the base up recently. It is not all of my acros, most are doing great, even the ones STN'ing have great color and PE.

I am wondering if maybe starvation due to no PO4 could be the issue? Nothing is really "pale" but the only parameter I found that was worrysome was my Po4 which I checked with a hanna ULR checker @ 0, twice.

I dosed a bit of Neophos +0.02ppm and retested an hour later and got a reading of 4 on the hannna (0.012). The next morning it was back down to 0.

I do have a pretty good sized refugium with a very strong light on it. But I am really not sure if low PO4 can cause STN like this (from base up mostly), with good coloration???

Full parameters.

SG - 1.026
Calc - 420
Alk - 7.8-8.0 (checked morning and night to make sure not swinging)
Mag - 1250
Temp - 78-78.5
Nitrate - 10
Po4 - 0 (undetectable)

Thanks all for any advice

High nitrate like that with no po4 is a terrible idea in my experience.

najer · May 30, 2020

Reef roids will help raise phos and feed your corals and as above you need to raise your mag.

heifinator · Jun 6, 2020

Mag is up to 1500 and Po4 is registering at about .04-.07 now. Nitrates still around 10ppm.

Going to try and keep things stable at these levels for a week or two and see if the corals that arent too far gone start to recover some.

Thanks all!

jda · Jun 6, 2020

Unless you are testing with Hannah ULR and getting a zero, then don't believe that you have none. Even having a residual level of P of 1 or 2 PPB is totally fine as long as you are not trying to strip them even farther with organic carbon, media or chemicals.

Everybody struggles with a few acros. If they rest are doing OK, then I would not chase anything. It is not like all of them are doing poorly.

heifinator · Jun 15, 2020

jda said:
Unless you are testing with Hannah ULR and getting a zero, then don't believe that you have none. Even having a residual level of P of 1 or 2 PPB is totally fine as long as you are not trying to strip them even farther with organic carbon, media or chemicals.

Everybody struggles with a few acros. If they rest are doing OK, then I would not chase anything. It is not like all of them are doing poorly.

I was testing with a hanna ULR and getting 0 each time.

I have a pretty light bio-load on the tank and wasn't feeding a lot. I was having an the STN issue on at least 50% of my sps to be honest...

I've since been trying hard to raise po4 but it has been difficult. I'm dosing about 1.5ml of Neophos per day and its staying at around 0.025ppm now (~8 on hanna ULR). I haven't seen any significant STN since increasing nutrient import but at the same time I can't say I've seen an improvement either yet.

I'll be patient and stay the course for now and not over correct.

I'm also having a hard time dialing in my alk dosing, the tank has a huge amount of coraline (entire bottom and back walls).

Attached some pictures of the coraline + a couple of my sps.

TX_Punisher · Jun 15, 2020

As I’ve said in similar threads, I’ve noticed basal recession when nitrates bottom out. Also, similar results when they’ve crested 50.

heifinator · Jun 15, 2020

That is interesting because my nitrates have been rock solid at around 10ppm. Its po4 that is bottomed out.

I'll verify nitrates with another test kit to be sure.

TX_Punisher · Jun 15, 2020

Low po4 has produced the same results for me as well. Base recession.

heifinator · Jun 15, 2020

Alright. Im having to basically dump phosphate in the water to keep it from going to 0. Guess it's better than the opposite problem

Thanks!

heifinator · Jun 18, 2020

So tell me if this is crazy or if it makes sense.

I am adding 3ml of neophos per day (0.7ppm phosphate). An hour later when I measure po4 with hanna ULR it measures at about that, 0.7ppm.

24 hours later before dosing again I measure po4 and it is 0...

Is my export really consuming that much po4 a day. Nitrates are steady between 5-15ppm.

I have a fuge with a strong light and cheato but the cheato ball I keep is pretty small (about 6"). Light is on for fuge 5hrs at night.

Have 6 fish in a reefer250 and feed 1" rods food + reefroids daily.

If this result seems like something reasonable I'll maybe dial back cheato a lot more... Seems crazy to add that much po4 daily!!

Graffiti Spot · Jun 19, 2020

I have seen slow base necrosis from a lot of different things. It’s not always low po4. It’s odd this is always said to be the cause in almost every single thread with any kind of necrosis. I would like to see some more pics if you can take some.

TriggerFinger · Jun 19, 2020

Pedoconfuego said:
I have seen slow base necrosis from a lot of different things. It’s not always low po4. It’s odd this is always said to be the cause in almost every single thread with any kind of necrosis. I would like to see some more pics if you can take some.

I have STN on a couple frags with very very low nitrate and .12 phosphate...

heifinator · Jun 19, 2020

I have nitrates available in the tank (5-15ppm). I'm just seeing a huge uptake of po4 daily and am curious if that is a reasonable result. I feel like 0.7ppm uptake daily is a lot of po4.

The tank is absolutely covered in coraline algae growth and my alk is very stable at 8dkh.

I also have the tank on automatic 1gal/day water changes.