Acros are dying from the base up

[oldpaddy]

Hi all, wish I was here under better terms. I've been witnessing my acroporas dying over the last 5 weeks. Starts at the base and works its way up. Sometimes quickly depending on size of the coral. I've lost most of my 3" or less acros, and now my larger acros are dying. Including my largest colony (approx 8"×8"×8" that started from a 1" frag). Nothing but acros are being affected.
I had fallen behind my water changes and my alk and No3 had crept up from 9dkhand 0 no3 to 11dkh and 10 no3. I did 5× 10-15% water changes over 10 days to get the alk and no3 back down and I adjusted my doser. Until recently my numbers had usually been very consistent since start up.

Any ideas? I'm guessing aefw, but I can't see anything. I've been blowing the acros with a baster like a mad man since yesterday.

220gal display with a about 30gal in the refugium. 2x 300w black box led lights.
Not running carbon or uv.
Mixed reef with sps dominant.
Been up over 2 years and was part of an older system.
Various fish. Pertinent ones are dwarf angels and a melarnus wrasse. Hermits, snails, shrimp, and various hitchhikers from live rocks.

Api test kits, and reef salt mix.

Salinity- 1.025
No3- 0 (was 0 until a few weeks ago, back to 0 now)
Ca- 400
No2- 0
Nh4- 0
Ph- 8
Alk- 9dkh (was 11 a few weeks ago, back to 9 now)
Temp- 82f

The above numbers have been pretty stable since the start of the system. I haven't tested mg or po3 in a while. I use rodi water, 30gal changes. No, I never dipped or quarantined anything in the past.

Nothing else is being effected.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Mattrg02]

I'd guess it was your nitrates going to 0 and hour alkalinity going to 11 that did it.

 

[Frontosa]

Prob most likely the alk swing over the nitrates as coral need some nitrates and phosphate to servive. I read else where frag were good and hope for best

 

[oldpaddy]

Thanks guys, I thought it might be the alk swing too, but the death is not uniform. Some started rtn, stopped and started again. Others just started the other day, and a few haven't been hit yet despite being frags from colonies that have already died or started dying.
The one constant is they start from the base.
I tend to think it's a pest, but I haven't seen anything. Though my eyes aren't what they once were.

 

[Frontosa]

Always try a coral dip in clear container blast with pipet might be able to see better if were a pest

 

[oldpaddy]

Always try a coral dip in clear container blast with pipet might be able to see better if were a pest

That's easier said than done. Most of the colonies are on rocks that can't be moved without hurting other corals/anemones or collapsing rock structures.

 

[Frontosa]

Well that sucks

 

[Waters]

I have been fighting these same type of issues for almost a year.......also only affected acros. Turns out (it appears) that it all revolved around stability. Either the ALK swing or the change in nutrients is what likely caused the stress....the smaller frags are the first to go, normally from the base up. Once I stabilized everything (ALK, Ca, Nitrates, Phosphates) my issues have disappeared. I would focus on holding all levels stable, and wait it out. Hopefully the tissue necroses stops, and they start to recover.

 

[Mattrg02]

If it's a pest, you'll either see them at night (nudis) or you'll see distinct bite marks (aefw).

I'll bet it was your alkalinity being way too high for zero nutrients.

If it IS a pest, it's cutting/fragging time. :-(

 

[oldpaddy]

If it's the alk swing, wouldn't the die off slow down? I've got a 2-3" frag that is fine and its from a colony that's only started to show rts over the last few days. They're on opposite ends of the tank. My alk has been back to 9dkh for over a week now.
So frustrating. I need to find a magnifying glass. Due to the sudden and sporadic rts and how it's only affecting acros, I think it's a pest. I can't tell if when I see a new white spot show up if it's a bite or not.

 

[Mattrg02]

If it's the alk swing, wouldn't the die off slow down? I've got a 2-3" frag that is fine and its from a colony that's only started to show rts over the last few days. They're on opposite ends of the tank. My alk has been back to 9dkh for over a week now.
So frustrating. I need to find a magnifying glass. Due to the sudden and sporadic rts and how it's only affecting acros, I think it's a pest. I can't tell if when I see a new white spot show up if it's a bite or not.

Alkalinity swings have very lasting effects. The extent that your corals survive are probably based on complex variables. Going high suddenly and then back to normal suddenly are two swings.

To be safe, I'd dip a few corals and look for pests. They may be more active now that your corals are stressed.

 

[oldpaddy]

Just did a 25gal water change.

No3-0
Po3-0
Alk-8.5dkh
Ph- 8.1
Ca-400
Salinity 1.025
Temp- 82f

White spots have gotten bigger on some corals and now my red acropora has shown first signs of rtn at the base. I just started basting like mad yesterday. We'll see what happens over the next few weeks. Hopefully it was just a alk swing.

 

[Mattrg02]

Just did a 25gal water change.

No3-0
Po3-0
Alk-8.5dkh
Ph- 8.1
Ca-400
Salinity 1.025
Temp- 82f

White spots have gotten bigger on some corals and now my red acropora has shown first signs of rtn at the base. I just started basting like mad yesterday. We'll see what happens over the next few weeks. Hopefully it was just a alk swing.

Get those nutrients up.

If it were pests, there would be signs all over rather than just the base.

 

[oldpaddy]

Get those nutrients up.

If it were pests, there would be signs all over rather than just the base.

I like the sound of that. That gives me the warm fuzzies.
I'm back to where I was 6 weeks ago parameterwise. Other than for a week or two 5 weeks ago, I'm right where I've always been. My n03 has always shown zero until 5 weeks ago, and my growth has been excellent. Though I'm not sure I'm really running at 0 n03.

 

[Mattrg02]

I like the sound of that. That gives me the warm fuzzies.
I'm back to where I was 6 weeks ago parameterwise. Other than for a week or two 5 weeks ago, I'm right where I've always been. My n03 has always shown zero until 5 weeks ago, and my growth has been excellent. Though I'm not sure I'm really running at 0 n03.

Id still take a few corals out for a dip and then look very carefully for bugs. That would rule out pests. Nudis are very easy to see at night time, flatworms are much harder to see unless you kill them via dipping.

 

[wopadobop]

Did you rapidly reduce po4? This happens a lot with people first starting zeovit systems on established tanks. Rapid declines in p04 can stn from base up. Gfo or lanthanum misuse is pretty notorious for it. I agree get your nutrients up or supplement some aminos. I still keep a bottle of sponge power around to help heal damaged coral flesh. Small bottles of reef energy a and b are also good to have on hand. Ive had good luck stopping stn from the base with both of those products. Tip burn and runaway rtn is usually alk swing.

 

[oldpaddy]

Did you rapidly reduce po4? This happens a lot with people first starting zeovit systems on established tanks. Rapid declines in p04 can stn from base up. Gfo or lanthanum misuse is pretty notorious for it. I agree get your nutrients up or supplement some aminos. I still keep a bottle of sponge power around to help heal damaged coral flesh. Small bottles of reef energy a and b are also good to have on hand. Ive had good luck stopping stn from the base with both of those products. Tip burn and runaway rtn is usually alk swing.

I rarely test p04. Today was the first time I tested it since April. I did have a n03 spike 5 weeks ago. So I would assume my po4 went up and down as well.
I don't use gfo or anything else.
Just ca&alk doser and water changes. Plus a skimmer.

 

[Mattrg02]

Did you rapidly reduce po4? This happens a lot with people first starting zeovit systems on established tanks. Rapid declines in p04 can stn from base up. Gfo or lanthanum misuse is pretty notorious for it. I agree get your nutrients up or supplement some aminos. I still keep a bottle of sponge power around to help heal damaged coral flesh. Small bottles of reef energy a and b are also good to have on hand. Ive had good luck stopping stn from the base with both of those products. Tip burn and runaway rtn is usually alk swing.

What's this sponge power? Sounds very interesting!

 

[Mattrg02]

I rarely test p04. Today was the first time I tested it since April. I did have a n03 spike 5 weeks ago. So I would assume my po4 went up and down as well.
I don't use gfo or anything else.
Just ca&alk doser and water changes. Plus a skimmer.

I use a Hanna ultra low range phosphate tester and find that my phosphates don't stay up like my nitrates do. If you raise your nitrates via dosing them, you'll need to dose your phosphates as well. I believe the biological processes use phosphates more than nitrates, yet spoke with increased nitrates, thus using more phosphates. Or something like that.

 

[oldpaddy]

I use a Hanna ultra low range phosphate tester and find that my phosphates don't stay up like my nitrates do. If you raise your nitrates via dosing them, you'll need to dose your phosphates as well. I believe the biological processes use phosphates more than nitrates, yet spoke with increased nitrates, thus using more phosphates. Or something like that.

I feed fairly heavy. My fish are porkers.
Though I have cut back on feedings over the last month. My fish don't look any thinner. Maybe I'll try feeding heavier again. I try not to dose anything unless I have to.