Acros STN - Bacterial?

-Logzor · Feb 9, 2012

So I'm having this issue with my acros, haven't seen anything like it before. There is tissue necrosis occurring, very slowly. It has taken several weeks to work up the base of some colonies. Trimming off the bad tissue seems to solve the problem.

I had initially attributed the problem to high salinity, due to a bad refractometer. I have since switched to a probe and corrected the salinity problem. The issue is, the necrosis is appearing on more corals.

At the base of some corals, there are tiny black specs of algae, they're definitely not moving, I watched them for quite awhile....

There is no other sign of pests on the corals.

I am beginning to suspect the problem is a pathogen. Most of the corals look fine, decent growth and color. The afflicted corals look quite normal aside from the STN from the base up. I am fairly certain it's not a parameter issue, otherwise my green slimer wouldn't be having this problem...that coral is practically impossible to kill. Like the rest of the corals, STN has been occurring over the past month, at least, it's gotten maybe 2-3 inches up.

What can I do to stop this? I tried dosing hydrogen peroxide this evening, thinking it might help kill off any pathogens/bacteria that are causing the problem.

This is so strange, corals that have been with me through think and thin are dying off, over the past 3 years I've made every mistaken known to man and nothing has dropped this corals, except this.

So far about 50% of my acros have not been affected.

I'm really don't have a clue as to what the problem could be. Any advice would be extremely helpful.

secretreefer · Feb 9, 2012

sorry to hear brutha. sounds new to me. i've only had problems when my alk dropped and the GFO incident.....i'll be following since i'm going SPS dominant in the tank.

-Logzor · Feb 9, 2012

I should also mention that I'm not running any GFO or Carbon or dosing anything side from two-part.

secretreefer · Feb 9, 2012

You think your 2 part has contaminants in it maybe? or bad batch of salt or additives?

-Logzor · Feb 9, 2012

secretreefer said:
You think your 2 part has contaminants in it maybe? or bad batch of salt or additives?

I've been using the same 5 gallon buckets from BRS, so that's definitely not the problem. I am using an fairly old bucket of reef crystals, so that could potentially be the problem, I somehow doubt it, though.

I'm considering running carbon but I'm kind of afraid it will do more harm than good.

It only seems to be acropora that are STN'ing. This is why I am suspecting an acro specific disease. Most of my montis look great, one did lose it's color (I suspect from the high salinity) but none have receded. LPS and Softies look great.

secretreefer · Feb 9, 2012

here's a link maybe one of these?

Common Identified Coral Diseases

-Logzor · Feb 9, 2012

Looks most like white band, it travels up the base of the coral in a linear manner.

There isn't a single instance where it has started at the tips or middle, etc. It's always from the base up.

I'm thinking the high salinity lower the immune systems of the corals and the infection set in...

SteezySPS · Feb 9, 2012

hmm. I've heard about a large tank locally that crashed after their colonies grew really large. he attributed it to lack of flow. maybe check for a rusted magnet? good luck with the tank

-Logzor · Feb 9, 2012

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check my old tunze magnets to make sure nothing is exposed.

jakem · Feb 9, 2012

If ur running a mixed reef i woould run a small amout of good carbon because of the chemical warfair between sps, lps, zoo's and softies.

Devonjevon · Feb 9, 2012

I would dip one easy to dip coral that's affected and just see what happens. When is the last time you added a coral?

Reefltx · Feb 9, 2012

Maybe run some Polyfilter to help rule out contaminants. Next would be try a new batch of salt?

Battlecorals · Feb 9, 2012

Reefltx said:
Maybe run some Polyfilter to help rule out contaminants. Next would be try a new batch of salt?

I was going to suggest the same thing.

Nuocmam · Feb 9, 2012

Do don't happen to be running biopellet are ya?

-Logzor · Feb 10, 2012

Nuocmam said:
Do don't happen to be running biopellet are ya?

Nope, no biopellets. Just skimmer, chaeto, and two-part.

I have tried dipping the corals in Coral Rx and it did not stop the problem.

I have a new batch of salt open now so I'll be using that from now on.

Hopefully dosing hydrogen peroxide will help, I'm thinking maybe it will kill off or slow down whatever is causing the problem.

ignatz · Feb 10, 2012

-Logzor said:
Nope, no biopellets. Just skimmer, chaeto, and two-part.

I have tried dipping the corals in Coral Rx and it did not stop the problem.

I have a new batch of salt open now so I'll be using that from now on.

Hopefully dosing hydrogen peroxide will help, I'm thinking maybe it will kill off or slow down whatever is causing the problem.

Have you dipped the corals in an Iodine based solution? I like Tropic Marin's Coral Cure; it claims to be effective for AEFW, spiders, and microbial diseases. I tried to CoralRX but had better results with the Coral Cure.

Are you sure it's not AEFW? Have you examined the necrotic tissue under at least 10X magnification?

I've experimented a bit using H2O2 on SPS (montis and acros). My advice: Go easy. It works best as a spot treatment not a whole tank supplement. I like to remove the coral from my tank and drop H2O2 directly on the affected surface making sure to hold the coral so that excess H2O2 doesn't touch healthy tissue. After 5 - 10 seconds, I rinse with tank water then return the coral to the tank. If it's bacterial, you'll see the H2O2 foam up right away.

-Logzor · Feb 10, 2012

ignatz said:
Have you dipped the corals in an Iodine based solution? I like Tropic Marin's Coral Cure; it claims to be effective for AEFW, spiders, and microbial diseases. I tried to CoralRX but had better results with the Coral Cure.

Are you sure it's not AEFW? Have you examined the necrotic tissue under at least 10X magnification?

I've experimented a bit using H2O2 on SPS (montis and acros). My advice: Go easy. It works best as a spot treatment not a whole tank supplement. I like to remove the coral from my tank and drop H2O2 directly on the affected surface making sure to hold the coral so that excess H2O2 doesn't touch healthy tissue. After 5 - 10 seconds, I rinse with tank water then return the coral to the tank. If it's bacterial, you'll see the H2O2 foam up right away.

I have some TMPCC but I haven't tried that yet for this problem.

The issue is not pest related as far as I can tell. AEFW leave eggs and bit marks. This is STN.

That's interesting your treating the tissue directly, I'll definitely give this a shot, thanks for the suggested, it's kind of similar to how we might treat a wound. It might be perfect for this issue because it's a localized problem at the base of the corals.

ignatz · Feb 10, 2012

-Logzor said:
I have some TMPCC but I haven't tried that yet for this problem.

The issue is not pest related as far as I can tell. AEFW leave eggs and bit marks. This is STN.

That's interesting your treating the tissue directly, I'll definitely give this a shot, thanks for the suggested, it's kind of similar to how we might treat a wound. It might be perfect for this issue because it's a localized problem at the base of the corals.

I can never see the telltale AEFW signs without 10X magnification... getting old hurts.

The TMCC is a good choice in this situation because if it's bacterial then the iodine will help and if by some chance it's AEFW you'll be able to see them after the dip. win-win. If you don't see any AEFW/pests, I might consider running a strong U/V to eliminate water born problems since you said it's spreading.

Yeah, that's exactly how I think of using H2O2. I've tried using it in tank and don't get the same results. I also use iodine in the same fashion as long as I'm sure there are no pests. I start with iodine and then move on to H2O2. The H202 can be harsh on corals that are struggling compared to iodine.

Good luck and please post up your results. I HTH.

-Logzor · Feb 10, 2012

ignatz said:
I can never see the telltale AEFW signs without 10X magnification... getting old hurts. The TMCC is a good choice in this situation because if it's bacterial then the iodine will help and if by some chance it's AEFW you'll be able to see them after the dip. win-win. If you don't see any AEFW/pests, I might consider running a strong U/V to eliminate water born problems since you said it's spreading.

Yeah, that's exactly how I think of using H2O2. I've tried using it in tank and don't get the same results. I also use iodine in the same fashion as long as I'm sure there are no pests. I start with iodine and then move on to H2O2. The H202 can be harsh on corals that are struggling compared to iodine.

Good luck and please post up your results. I HTH.

Haha I have pretty good eyes still, I've spotted RB's from 14" away. LOL

I'll give direct treatment a shot with the next coral that shows problems. I'll trimmed and removed most of the unhealthy tissue thus far.

Will it actually kill the tissue that it touches (H202)?

FaviaFreak · Feb 10, 2012

I have a friend who was going through something very similar and we ran through everything we could think of ie. foriegn object (rust) alkalinity, bad salt batch, bad 2pt mix, bugs, aefw, flow, carbon dosing, fish, etc...all I kept coming up with was a pathogen as well