Add More Ammonia for fishless cycle or let it ride?

[Reefrookie733]

So tank has been cycling for 18 days now using ammonia chloride to about 4PPM and Dr. Tim's One and Only.

Tested a couple times with Ammonia still around 3PPM and Nitrites pretty high (hard for me to read them correctly) i need a class! lol

Did a 20% water change on Saturday, tested Sunday and got this. Pics below.

My Ammonia is down to about .2PPM ?? maybe

Nitrites still pretty high

I've heard from members go another couple weeks before adding anything to let nitrites come down, but do i need to add any more Ammonia Chloride to keep feeding it????

Thanks!!

 

[andrewey]

Have you seen this? The topic of how to test whether your cycle is finished or needs more time is covered.

Cycling an Aquarium

Cycling a new aquarium. One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reefrookie733]

Yes

Have you seen this? The topic of how to test whether your cycle is finished or needs more time is covered.

Cycling an Aquarium

Cycling a new aquarium. One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank...

www.reef2reef.com

I have but didn’t think it was clear enough to answer my specific questions or I didn’t comprehend how it was presented.

 

[Plecosam]

Leave it, I would not add any more.

Does that kit read 1ppm nitrite, I am going to suggest you are done if so, throw a fish or two in and enjoy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There's no need to "feed" it to keep it going (at least in a reasonable time frame of a week or so), but I'd like to see a second shot of ammonia be depleted before declaring victory. I'm not really concerned with nitrite. It isn't toxic in seawater the way it is in a freshwater aquarium.

 

[Reefrookie733]

There's no need to "feed" it to keep it going (at least in a reasonable time frame of a week or so), but I'd like to see a second shot of ammonia be depleted before declaring victory. I'm not really concerned with nitrite. It isn't toxic in seawater the way it is in a freshwater aquarium.

whew...there seems to be lots of opinions on here....put in fish, put in more ammonia, dont put in more ammonia....hard for the newbies to figure out which one is the right path! lol

 

[Plecosam]

Well that is 99.9% of what forums are, pure opinion.

 

[andrewey]

whew...there seems to be lots of opinions on here....put in fish, put in more ammonia, dont put in more ammonia....hard for the newbies to figure out which one is the right path! lol

Well that is 99.9% of what forums are, pure opinion.

You nailed it! The cycle is one of those topics that seems to invite debate, conjecture, and misinformation. My advice is to find a reliable and trustworthy source of information and follow that. Part of the hobby is the ability to assess the validity of the information you've been given- as that usually involves a bit of knowledge in that particular area of physics, chemistry, or biology, it's always safest to find verifiable sources or select an opinion from someone you deem trustworthy. There are no shortage of well written guides to cycling an aquarium or explanations of the biological processes underpinning the idea of a "cycle"- these would probably be where I would start before leaning too heavily on a particular reefer's opinion.

 

[homer1475]

Not sure why all the debate? We have been cycling tanks the same way for decades.

Add ammonia source(one time only), wait for it to be 0, then nitrites show up, wait for them to be 0, then nitrates. Large water change at the end to lower the nitrates.

Add fish slowly over time as to not out compete the growing bacteria.

FW or SW, we all do the basic cycling the same. Of course there is one variable in SW, nitrites are not toxic like they are on FW(fish can be added sooner), but the cycling process is still the same.

 

[Reefrookie733]

Well that is 99.9% of what forums are, pure opinion.

lol...well i guess with all the genius's on here i at least thought there would be a concensus as to "how to turn the screwdriver" boy was i wrong! Its all good. I like the dialogue. but andrew made a good point. I am going to have to follow one or the other! which yellow brick road?? lol

thanks

 

[Plecosam]

Throw a fish in, if it dies you know your cycle is not complete, not an exact science but a good measure.

 

[brandon429]

its a legit debate. knowing when to break conventional rules allows one to enter their tank in a marine aquarium convention, where nitrite doesnt factor (an analogy to contrast forum cycling where you wait for three params to comply, reef conventions are 400 tanks all ready by Friday, how'd none vary?)

the reason all the conflicting ways exist is because we're carving up the former rules. your tank is ready to begin, based on the thread called the microbiology of reef aquarium cycling. independent from other claims, our way simply factors # of days underwater + boosters added which have already been tested to get ammonia control ready in a day or three.

you're past those markers.

the starting animals you add wont die in two days, and if your tank was not cycled they would. with this approach, you're assuming more of the reef convention start date type rules. you should change out all or most water before you add starting bioload, so there's less algae fuel to begin with that didnt come from entertaining bioload. additionally, people are bent on testing wastewater vs the clean condition water, which is clearly better water

by doing the big water change, you leave the cycling bac which has adhered and they'll carry your bioload. *factoring errors, dead bottle bac from shipping stress is possible though Ive never seen any tank meeting cycling markers fail to carry and starting bioload, Ive never seen it once in reefing. If you had dead bottle bac there would be other markers in place in the description, yours indicate live.

 

[Reefrookie733]

its a legit debate. knowing when to break conventional rules allows one to enter their tank in a marine aquarium convention, where nitrite doesnt factor (an analogy to contrast forum cycling where you wait for three params to comply, reef conventions are 400 tanks all ready by Friday, how'd none vary?)

the reason all the conflicting ways exist is because we're carving up the former rules. your tank is ready to begin, based on the thread called the microbiology of reef aquarium cycling. independent from other claims, our way simply factors # of days underwater + boosters added which have already been tested to get ammonia control ready in a day or three.

you're past those markers.

the starting animals you add wont die in two days, and if your tank was not cycled they would. with this approach, you're assuming more of the reef convention start date type rules.

Thanks brandon! What do you recommend for a good starting couple of fish for my tank?

 

[andrewey]

When I say debate, I think I should clarify- the debate is largely among certain hobbyists who have strong opinions- not so much among academics or those that study marine biology & chemistry as a profession. The term "cycle" is largely one that is hobbyist created- how you define a cycle largely impacts how you understand it

 

[brandon429]

everyone uses clown fish, but the truth is I prefer corals and clean up crew for a while, then fallow, then QT prepped fish of your choice. There's certain benefits to that order

when to add fish isn't actually based on ammonia control we're past that here, its based on your selected disease protocol in my opinion. that being said, every nano Ive ever seen had two clowns lol and its only rare I can think of that not working. make your call on fish disease, there are new ways found that greatly reduce your risk of loss 7 mos into the tank otherwise doing fine...which does happen from time to time. a standard we use in our cycling thread is if your max fish destiny is two clowns and maybe a goby, most are getting by without fallowing/qt that combo.

but nearly everyone adds more, and beyond that only fallow and QT are getting the real preservation stats. the way marine fish works is, you select your best specimens from the lfs and they die in seven months lol

but with fallow and qt science found in the fish disease forum here, you cut those losses measurably, even though not everyone uses that way. its got the highest retention rate per 100 tanks running, for sure. if your tank was mine Id pack in $250 in frags, some cool snails and begin feeding and water changing activity vs passive reefing, to drive coral mass. get ready for fish over some time, they're such a load/tax on the system no rush for em. I would change all water before beginning

 

[Reefrookie733]

everyone uses clown fish, but the truth is I prefer corals and clean up crew for a while, then fallow, then QT prepped fish of your choice. There's certain benefits to that order

when to add fish isn't actually based on ammonia control we're past that here, its based on your selected disease protocol in my opinion. that being said, every nano Ive ever seen had two clowns lol and its only rare I can think of that not working. make your call on fish disease, there are new ways found that greatly reduce your risk of loss 7 mos into the tank otherwise doing fine...which does happen from time to time. a standard we use in our cycling thread is if your max fish destiny is two clowns and maybe a goby, most are getting by without fallowing/qt that combo.

but nearly everyone adds more, and beyond that only fallow and QT are getting the real preservation stats. the way marine fish works is, you select your best specimens from the lfs and they die in seven months lol

but with fallow and qt science found in the fish disease forum here, you cut those losses measurably, even though not everyone uses that way. its got the highest retention rate per 100 tanks running, for sure. if your tank was mine Id pack in $250 in frags, some cool snails and begin feeding and water changing activity vs passive reefing, to drive coral mass. get ready for fish over some time, they're such a load/tax on the system no rush for em. I would change all water before beginning

Great info, never thought of corals as as starter vs fish (which probably are cheaper overall). Irony is i have a JBJ 28G nano with a damsel and 2 clowns that have been in there for 4 moves in 6 years and still going strong. I hate to throw them in there considering how happy they are currently.

 

[Reefrookie733]

everyone uses clown fish, but the truth is I prefer corals and clean up crew for a while, then fallow, then QT prepped fish of your choice. There's certain benefits to that order

when to add fish isn't actually based on ammonia control we're past that here, its based on your selected disease protocol in my opinion. that being said, every nano Ive ever seen had two clowns lol and its only rare I can think of that not working. make your call on fish disease, there are new ways found that greatly reduce your risk of loss 7 mos into the tank otherwise doing fine...which does happen from time to time. a standard we use in our cycling thread is if your max fish destiny is two clowns and maybe a goby, most are getting by without fallowing/qt that combo.

but nearly everyone adds more, and beyond that only fallow and QT are getting the real preservation stats. the way marine fish works is, you select your best specimens from the lfs and they die in seven months lol

but with fallow and qt science found in the fish disease forum here, you cut those losses measurably, even though not everyone uses that way. its got the highest retention rate per 100 tanks running, for sure. if your tank was mine Id pack in $250 in frags, some cool snails and begin feeding and water changing activity vs passive reefing, to drive coral mass. get ready for fish over some time, they're such a load/tax on the system no rush for em. I would change all water before beginning

By the way, whats fallow ??

 

[brandon429]

its quite a big endeavor, fallow is part of a system where people prepare their tanks in a special way by delaying fish addition, so disease imported during setup starve. then the other half of the fallow system approach is adding quarantined fish who dont intro new diseases into the prepped tank. they have stickies posted in the fish disease forum here on fallow, give em a run and consider that truly if you are ever going beyond fish basics.

another competing angle for fish disease control is exceptional feeding, you accessing your own live feeds and fresh feeds vs buying storebought items. a combo of these two is likely today's top fish care science for a best chance start.

 

[blasterman]

I've dry cycled many tanks with just ammonia. You leave it alone, and while ammonia doesn't seem to change it will suddenly crash as bacteria colonies hit critical mass and devour it. My advice is to wait until that happens and nitrite begins to drop. Then it's pretty much fish safe. Over the years I've learned that healthy fish aren't bothered by the ammonia cycle provided they ride it from start to finish and it's a low bioload.

Corals could care less about cycling because ammonia is just food to their zooxanthellae algae. However, corals don't respirate ammonia or waste and hence they don't sustain a proper nitrogen cycle. I do know from experience it takes several weeks of no bioload or ammonia before bacteria start to go backward in terms of nitrification ability.