Adding 'Beneficial' Bacteria

[RaymondL]

LFS says that I should be adding bottled bacteria periodically - no matter if it's not a new tank. What harm can this bring I wonder. There are many products out there - kind of like for us consuming yogurt for good gut flora - is this proven that it's a good thing to dose such products in an already cycled tank, or an established one?

Thoughts?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

LFS says that I should be adding bottled bacteria periodically - no matter if it's not a new tank. What harm can this bring I wonder. There are many products out there - kind of like for us consuming yogurt for good gut flora - is this proven that it's a good thing to dose such products in an already cycled tank, or an established one?

Thoughts?

What bacteria is it? If they want you to just continuously dose nitrifying bacteria all they want is your money...

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

The point of people eating yogurt is for the probiotic bacteria (which you can live without as well)...what product are they trying to sell to you? I'm assuming you have a healthy tank...

 

[RaymondL]

What bacteria is it? If they want you to just continuously dose nitrifying bacteria all they want is your money...

Ie. MicroBacter 7, Dr. Tim's - Eco-Balance,

​

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Ie. MicroBacter 7, Dr. Tim's - Eco-Balance,

​

Pretty sure those are primarily just nitrifying bacteria...if you want to keep adding bacteria for possible benefits add a product like Tropic Marin Nitribiotic or PNS Probio...those are probiotics and the Tropic Marin Nitribiotic is a mixture of probiotics and nitrifying bacteria

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I highly doubt you really need to be adding any additional bacteria though...

 

[RaymondL]

Pretty sure those are primarily just nitrifying bacteria...if you want to keep adding bacteria for possible benefits add a product like Tropic Marin Nitribiotic or PNS Probio...those are probiotics and the Tropic Marin Nitribiotic is a mixture of probiotics and nitrifying bacteria

Also this product was mostly recommended he said:

Bacto Blend - Fauna Marin

www.faunamarin.de

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Why do you feel you need to add anything at all at this point though?...i mean i don't know anything about your tank but you didn't say you were having any problems.

 

[RaymondL]

Why do you feel you need to add anything at all at this point though?...i mean i don't know anything about your tank but you didn't say you were having any problems.

Not having any issue per se, just a note that my LFS said to dose to 'prevent' any problems.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Not having any issue per se, just a note that my LFS said to dose to 'prevent' any problems.

Pretty sure they're just looking for a sale...there's no reason your established biological filter should die...i can't imagine what "problems" they're specifically referring to.

 

[brandon429]

Raymond, I'm 100% certain that's an optional buy. it isn't required, nor tangibly helpful and the lfs salesperson has never tested nor detected a single fault in any reef tank not using that. they may have very well reacted to something an API tester once saw regarding ammonia, but in reality that's a sales pitch you're getting, from a bottle bac seller.

the utility is one time use, to cycle a dry start system, then you don't need cycling bacteria ever again.

since our systems tolerate all the extra bac we're trained to foster/add/keep in the tank, daily additions of unneeded bacteria are also no big deal it just leaks away pocket cash. we can build any reef they show on the juice/lol off the juice and it'll look and run the same way.


send them this thread, have them respond why they market it/not to be harsh just bc I'm curious

 

[brandon429]

recall that scene in the cable guy where schteven tries to bribe the cable guy into discounted movies

-who told you that about bottled bacteria, what's his name/i want it

 

[ReefGeezer]

The beneficial bacteria the LFS is speaking of is probably heterotrophic bacteria. It different than the autotrophic bacteria that drive the nitrogen cycle. Unlike autotrophic bacteria that gets the carbon it needs from CO2, heterotrophic bacterial need an organic carbon source. They get this carbon from various organic compounds in the tank. This results in the breakdown of compounds like gross wastes, particulate organic compounds, and dissolved organic compounds. Theoretically, this is good for the system.

Because of competition with the existing bacteria the system, it is unlikely that the bacteria the product introduces will ever become established. It might have some immediate benefit, but more than likely, it won't be present for long. So the real question is how much good can come from the small amount of bacteria present in a dose. I think it does some good in the short time it is present and that the tank could benefit from regular doses.

I think there is a place for these products in the maintenance of a reef tank but can offer little empirical evidence. I use Brightwell's Microbacter 7 in a DIY mixture per @SunnyX in an effort to reduce Cyano. I dose it once a week. It seems to help and makes the water super clear. That said, you should also understand that it is easy to overdose these products. Go slow.

 

[brandon429]

the greatest oversellers of bottle bac in the history of the hobby in order of impact:

-in reaction to a claimed stuck cycle (which is an expected positive nh4 reading on a cheap test kit) = forty billion unneeded bottles sold. lol my estimates, based on the number of false ammonia alert reef threads uploaded since the internet began.

-in reaction to nitrite stalling: thirty nine billion extra bottles sold, funded many corvettes for the bottle bac sellers. funded some sick offshore investments, well done sales and ad marketing I salute you for it. *see Randy's article 2006 on nitrite: don't react to it.

-to feel good= it's no harm to add, bacterial diversity is good (adds a mono strain from a bottle) = sells twenty four billion bottles of bac a year.

as you can see, this all adds up to ten trillion dollars of sales hype, kudos to them for this design. marketing genius and peers in the hobby willingly cross-sell it to each other with zest.

 

[brandon429]

to the next bottle bac seller:


please include four strains, label it as diversity boosting/ you will make hand over fist money.



*you know what I'd rather add to my reef vs a lifetime free supply of anyone's bottle bac?

an ounce of reef water from fiji. unfiltered, all rafts in place, I'd pay $20 for a shot of that if was legit from fiji into my pico reef. now that's diversity, one ounce of reef water. in fact get me an ounce from fiji, seychelles, and cayman east end I'd pay $24.99 for a combined mix of that as a booster. that's real diversity.


*team

every frag you add brings in the suited strains to your tank

bottle bac is a huge gimmick for ongoing support, though it sure does quick cycle nicely/ it is not useless.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

to the next bottle bac seller:


please include four strains, label it as diversity boosting/ you will make hand over fist money.



*you know what I'd rather add to my reef vs a lifetime free supply of anyone's bottle bac?

an ounce of reef water from fiji. unfiltered, all rafts in place, I'd pay $20 for a shot of that if was legit from fiji into my pico reef. now that's diversity, one ounce of reef water. in fact get me an ounce from fiji, seychelles, and cayman east end I'd pay $24.99 for a combined mix of that as a booster. that's real diversity.


*team

every frag you add brings in the suited strains to your tank

bottle bac is a huge gimmick for ongoing support, though it sure does quick cycle nicely/ it is not useless.

Is a reef in Thailand close enough? If you're really serious i will send you a bottle of water filled up personally from one of the island reefs...dead serious.

 

[brandon429]

that is so nice of you. I don't want you to have to go through that headache although if I lived there: would for sure do. even that is a feelgood move/but it's free and if plated out on agar there'd be so many species of bac it would take ten different mixes to reveal a quarter of bac suspended in that water, truly diverse bacteria.

Regarding Sunny's dosing thread, it does have lots of supporters. I hope he breaks through the doubt and reveals new patterns.


*helpful though: you need an outbound set of work threads. not just one where adherents want something to work and then find that group affirmation in the big thread on dosing cycling bac to beat tank uglies. it's a very good start to the matter in my opinion


you need to go into the nuisance algae forum, find someone's cyano tank that truly has been through the wringer on options and still is wrecked, then take on that system live time, in their thread, by making dosing recommends.


if you can develop about 25 pages of outbound work like that, you can make new patterns for the hobby. Sunny's inbound thread on the matter has enough pages/views/trending feedback I don't think the method can be fully discounted yet. and that's coming from a total skeptic. Work thread patterns can change reef rules/firm truth in reefing.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

that is so nice of you. I don't want you to have to go through that headache although if I lived there: would for sure do.

I've done it...i actually would do it to help out a fellow reefer...you'd have to pay for shipping too though...

 

[RaymondL]

This is very informative - thank a bunch folks. Learned something today Thanks. Doesn't BRSTV endorse such practice, again perhaps given that they do sell such products, it can be part of the entire 'conspiracy'.

Question then becomes what happens to the system if one doses these products - does it cause algae bloom or other problems - has there been a study on such before I wonder?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

This is very informative - thank a bunch folks. Learned something today Thanks. Doesn't BRSTV endorse such practice, again perhaps given that they do sell such products, it can be part of the entire 'conspiracy'.

Question then becomes what happens to the system if one doses these products - does it cause algae bloom or other problems - has there been a study on such before I wonder?

The only thing that'll happen is money disappearing from your bank account... nothing will happen to your tank... nothing positive or negative...