Adding Distilled White Vinegar While Mixing Salt?

Tristan · May 11, 2016

Since I have been adding distilled white vinegar when mixing my saltwater, I have noticed a large decrease in the amount of precipitation.

It hasn't had any effects on my corals at all and the pH doesn't change. I add about maybe 1/8-1/4 of a cup to 28 gallons of RO/DI water. I just put the vinegar in by eye and don't really measure it.

Do any of you also do this?

TUSI · May 11, 2016

That is interesting. I'm curious what randy Holmes-Farley would say

Tristan · May 12, 2016

Nudge

Bunnee911 · May 12, 2016

How long do you let the new salt water set before using it?

Tristan · May 12, 2016

Bunnee911 said:
How long do you let the new salt water set before using it?

At least 2 days. Why?

Bunnee911 · May 12, 2016

Vinegar is a carbon source and can foster bacteria.

Tristan · May 12, 2016

Bunnee911 said:
Vinegar is a carbon source and can foster bacteria.

Bad bacteria or good?

Tristan · May 13, 2016

Bunnee911 said:
Vinegar is a carbon source and can foster bacteria.

But then wouldn't that bacteria die in SW?

BluewaterLa · May 13, 2016

Tristan said:
Bad bacteria or good?

Good bacteria, it's providing carbon source for the bacteria population to feed of off and allowing the population of beneficial bacteria grow larger.

The precipitation that happens when mixing saltwater has always been related to the circulation pump used creating heat, heating the water up to a high temp will cause precipitation. From my experiences. Using a smaller pump will help keep temp down. Also some salts mix better if added slow and not all at once.
Ever looked into the container and noticed the gray colored or tan calcium crud on the sides or on the pump itself ?

Smite · May 13, 2016

Dang. I went with an oversized pump to mix it quicker...... maybe I need to rethink that as I've experience precipitation issues when mixing more than a day.

MOPAR · May 13, 2016

Maybe the vinegar in the freshly mixed SW helps with parcipitation by boosting the waters saturation level much like how it can be used with kalk to make it more potent. Not sure if this is correct, but just food for thought.

ludnix · May 13, 2016

BluewaterLa said:
Good bacteria, it's providing carbon source for the bacteria population to feed of off and allowing the population of beneficial bacteria grow larger.

The precipitation that happens when mixing saltwater has always been related to the circulation pump used creating heat, heating the water up to a high temp will cause precipitation. From my experiences. Using a smaller pump will help keep temp down. Also some salts mix better if added slow and not all at once.
Ever looked into the container and noticed the gray colored or tan calcium crud on the sides or on the pump itself ?

As far as I know that tan or gray colored substance is the anti-caking agent used to keep your salt from showing up in the form a solid brick. I think it might be preferable to have this settle out of the water while in the mixing bucket, as opposed to doing it in your tank. It's harmless stuff but I'd rather have as little in my tank as possible.

If that is what you're referring to Tristan then perhaps you're keeping the clay dissolved longer by using the vinegar. Why are you adding the vinegar in the first place? Is your pH coming out too high when you mix?

BluewaterLa · May 13, 2016

The anti clumping agent should be a settled powder in the bottom of the container, it is harmless to the tank but doesn't form a calcerous crust like precipitation from heat would.
The precipitation from using large mixing pumps due to heat is the same as magnesium being low in the reef while calcium is high and alk is unbalanced. In the reef tank this same build up can cover heaters and other sources of heat like pumps, also can make sand clump or get hard plate like sections.
Precipitation doesn't always look like snow in the tank water.

ludnix · May 13, 2016

Here's Randy's article on the subject, he describes using an airstone to reduce pH or lowering the temperature as BluewaterLa suggested. Using vinegar will lower the pH as well, but I think it might be preferable to try using the airstone first. I would try and use a mechanical method of gas exchange first before going a chemical route.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 13, 2016

Tristan said:
Since I have been adding distilled white vinegar when mixing my saltwater, I have noticed a large decrease in the amount of precipitation.

It hasn't had any effects on my corals at all and the pH doesn't change. I add about maybe 1/8-1/4 of a cup to 28 gallons of RO/DI water. I just put the vinegar in by eye and don't really measure it.

Do any of you also do this?

It is lowering the pH a lot in the mixing water, and temporarily lowering the alkalinity, both of which reduce the likelihood of precipitation. It may also encourage bacterial growth in the salt mix if you leave it for too long before using it.

FWIW, I know someone who used HCl (muriatic acid) to drop the alk in IO to 7 dKH. That entirely prevented any precipitation in the IO, although it also dropped the pH a lot until it was well aerated.

Tristan · May 15, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It is lowering the pH a lot in the mixing water, and temporarily lowering the alkalinity, both of which reduce the likelihood of precipitation. It may also encourage bacterial growth in the salt mix if you leave it for too long before using it.

FWIW, I know someone who used HCl (muriatic acid) to drop the alk in IO to 7 dKH. That entirely prevented any precipitation in the IO, although it also dropped the pH a lot until it was well aerated.

Would 1/4 of a cup of vinegar to 28 gallons of water really be enough to bring the pH down to a level for alarm?