Adding IO Bio-Spira to an established tank?
- Thread starter 125gSW
- Start date
- Tagged users None
If you're asking "why " I'm doing the water changes : Have been away from the tank awhile, been traveling for work, nitrates are high and nitrite at 2ppm, going to need to do multiple changes to bring everything back to normal.
If you're asking "why" I'm planning to use Bio Spira: I feel like multiple water changes will strip a lot from the tank... and also I have a bottle laying around
lol
jp_75
Valuable Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,338
- Reaction score
- 1,020
- Location
- DARIEN IL
- What state or country do you live in
- Illinois
Once at the store there was a guy who said he adds it every month.Still have no idea why... He talked to store owner and felt like should not get into their conversation. He was like "I have been doing it for lat 2 or some years!"
Pntbll687
Valuable Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2017
- Messages
- 2,188
- Reaction score
- 2,721
How much good bacteria is stripped out when doing water changes? And will adding beneficial bacteria aid in restoring balance to the reef?
Those are the two questions being asked.
Unfortunately I think most of the evidence is going to be anecdotal and not very scientific.
BUT! I would read everything on the label first before you add it. I know Dr Tim's one and only says it can not be overdosed, I would feel safer adding that. Read the label multiple times and maybe add a quarter or half dose to be safe, then add the rest the next day.
Those are the two questions being asked.
Unfortunately I think most of the evidence is going to be anecdotal and not very scientific.
BUT! I would read everything on the label first before you add it. I know Dr Tim's one and only says it can not be overdosed, I would feel safer adding that. Read the label multiple times and maybe add a quarter or half dose to be safe, then add the rest the next day.
Yea, use some. Why not really.
Better? Dunno.
Better? Dunno.
CindyKz
Valuable Member
If you're asking "why " I'm doing the water changes : Have been away from the tank awhile, been traveling for work, nitrates are high and nitrite at 2ppm, going to need to do multiple changes to bring everything back to normal.
If you're asking "why" I'm planning to use Bio Spira: I feel like multiple water changes will strip a lot from the tank... and also I have a bottle laying around
I was wondering why you want to add it.
My understanding is that nitrifying bacteria, which is basically what Biospira is, live on solid surfaces like rock and glass. Not in the water column. So water changes won't "strip" them, assuming you have enough to start with. OTOH, I doubt if it would hurt anything. Their website states the product "accelerates the establishment of the bio-filter in newly set up saltwater aquariums" but also that it "can be used after water changes".
If it were me, I'd save the Biospira - which I've used many times - for when you need to set up a quick QT or something. Why waste money?
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 30,220
- Reaction score
- 24,063
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
The outcomes are already known. Our sand rinse thread is full of 100% water changes
Everything is contaminated with a bioslick coating of nitrifiers and other mixed bacteria, and reef tank water has suspended bits of food and snow which are also contaminated. The online studies even show a few nitrifiers will leave the cell group matrix and begin anew elsewhere
That is a time they're in the water.
It's not that reef water is devoid of bacteria, its that they're incidental. We don't need them, they're above and beyond.
People are able to go to no sandbed from sandbed for the same reasons, even the bacteria in the sandbed are incidental given the power of live rock stacks.
It's neutral to add them. Harmless if you want to, but we've been doing 100% water changes in the densest coral loaded nano reefs for ten years now, no bottle bac is needed because they're refreshing, not harmful.
In your tank, if you did five 100% changes right now in a manner that didn't stress fish, and didn't kick up sandbed waste (our sand rinse thread is about the benefits of keeping the bed clean, for access wo risk) your tank would be stronger, not weaker, because you can spot feed better than normal for a run just before you time it with that big water change to take waste back out, before it degrades
We talk in our thread about using the manual work portion of a huge water change as:
A time to access algae on upper rock stacks, in the air, to burn/kill off unwanted growths and hand guide what you can into compliance. Glue some corals in place while drained, add. Use each stage of the drain for a calculated benefit
Spot feed each coral carefully before your bigger water change, do these even when things are running well so you can keep up with coral demand. Percent changed and pace of stroke is reef tank CPR
Keep a sandbed that runs cloudless, so that no water change kicks up waste, your reef will live with no biological lifespan.
Everything is contaminated with a bioslick coating of nitrifiers and other mixed bacteria, and reef tank water has suspended bits of food and snow which are also contaminated. The online studies even show a few nitrifiers will leave the cell group matrix and begin anew elsewhere
That is a time they're in the water.
It's not that reef water is devoid of bacteria, its that they're incidental. We don't need them, they're above and beyond.
People are able to go to no sandbed from sandbed for the same reasons, even the bacteria in the sandbed are incidental given the power of live rock stacks.
It's neutral to add them. Harmless if you want to, but we've been doing 100% water changes in the densest coral loaded nano reefs for ten years now, no bottle bac is needed because they're refreshing, not harmful.
In your tank, if you did five 100% changes right now in a manner that didn't stress fish, and didn't kick up sandbed waste (our sand rinse thread is about the benefits of keeping the bed clean, for access wo risk) your tank would be stronger, not weaker, because you can spot feed better than normal for a run just before you time it with that big water change to take waste back out, before it degrades
We talk in our thread about using the manual work portion of a huge water change as:
A time to access algae on upper rock stacks, in the air, to burn/kill off unwanted growths and hand guide what you can into compliance. Glue some corals in place while drained, add. Use each stage of the drain for a calculated benefit
Spot feed each coral carefully before your bigger water change, do these even when things are running well so you can keep up with coral demand. Percent changed and pace of stroke is reef tank CPR
Keep a sandbed that runs cloudless, so that no water change kicks up waste, your reef will live with no biological lifespan.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 30,220
- Reaction score
- 24,063
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
Dricc
Great call
The first sentence we covered in our reef cycling thread was to not test for nitrite, ever. Save the headache, the misleads
I'd rather know a verified ammonia reading.
Just for those kinds of reasons. Prime water conditioner is a huge false positive nitrite cause, we simply don't even need to know nitrite data. Not even during dry surface cycling, nitrite isn't needed to know in reefing.
Perhaps in medication/ hospital tanks. Past that, nope. Aquaculture and production level bioloading is different...home reefs don't generate nitrite after maturation/cycling given accountability for all fish, no meds, and no sourcewater input and no huge organic waste stores in the tank. Has to be a false point of sale unless one of those, imo.
Great call
The first sentence we covered in our reef cycling thread was to not test for nitrite, ever. Save the headache, the misleads
I'd rather know a verified ammonia reading.
Just for those kinds of reasons. Prime water conditioner is a huge false positive nitrite cause, we simply don't even need to know nitrite data. Not even during dry surface cycling, nitrite isn't needed to know in reefing.
Perhaps in medication/ hospital tanks. Past that, nope. Aquaculture and production level bioloading is different...home reefs don't generate nitrite after maturation/cycling given accountability for all fish, no meds, and no sourcewater input and no huge organic waste stores in the tank. Has to be a false point of sale unless one of those, imo.
CindyKz
Valuable Member
True....is the tank completely cycled? Overstocked, or stocked too quickly?
CindyKz
Valuable Member
This makes sense. Idk, I only test when I have fish acting weird and I'm ruling out causes.
ETA: Idt nitrite has ever been a cause.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 30,220
- Reaction score
- 24,063
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
post pics of this tank, let's see if the rock has been submerged past forty days. From pics alone and not test readings from API we can discern your ammonia readings and nitrite given a few common indicators pics convey so well
dricc
Active Member
Brandon. Once a tank is cycled is it possible to get nitrite if you grossly overstock or overfeed or is it not a problem because bacteria will multiply to combat the increase in organics? Thanks
Last edited:
This is a cycled tank, almost a year, definitely not overstocked. That nitrite could be a false reading I'm not sure lol. I've always had the biospira, it doest not expire till next year
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 30,220
- Reaction score
- 24,063
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
Dricc I guess an overfeed could cause it, just handy to know nitrite is inconsequential in our setups. Testing only for ammonia really helps get a clear picture where a tank stands
Only the ammonia portion of that event/overfeed would be risky, and nitrite won't show in any normal tank feeding... including his high bioload especially given a year in my opinion. If it was accurate and due to overfeed it won't hurt anything to do a nice water change anytime you feel like it. Most tanks with skimmers aren't breaking down as many proteins internally and id be impressed if a good feeding was spiking nitrite each time.
In Randy's chem forum they discuss how the chloride levels we deal with render the nitrite neutral impact...I included several chem forum links on nitrite in the thread below
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/
a neat way to see it historically is that all cycling charts online show nitrite complying by day thirty or forty (that's where we get our submersion time factor for cycling in this thread) and that nitrite follows ammonia behavior by day forty as well on all online cycle charts. Testing for nitrite trending is ok for sure but I wouldn't change course based on a reading. If your fish aren't panting at the top, no ammonia event has occurred and that would matter.
Only the ammonia portion of that event/overfeed would be risky, and nitrite won't show in any normal tank feeding... including his high bioload especially given a year in my opinion. If it was accurate and due to overfeed it won't hurt anything to do a nice water change anytime you feel like it. Most tanks with skimmers aren't breaking down as many proteins internally and id be impressed if a good feeding was spiking nitrite each time.
In Randy's chem forum they discuss how the chloride levels we deal with render the nitrite neutral impact...I included several chem forum links on nitrite in the thread below
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/
a neat way to see it historically is that all cycling charts online show nitrite complying by day thirty or forty (that's where we get our submersion time factor for cycling in this thread) and that nitrite follows ammonia behavior by day forty as well on all online cycle charts. Testing for nitrite trending is ok for sure but I wouldn't change course based on a reading. If your fish aren't panting at the top, no ammonia event has occurred and that would matter.
