Adding more rocks, when and what type.

[New&no clue]

I have a 55 gallon tank with about 30 pounds of live rock. I am currently looking to upgrade my tank to a 75 gallon in the next couple months. I plan to put the new tank where the current tank is so I will have to do the switch in one day. From what I have been reading it seems that if I take everything out of my current tank, keep as much water as possible, toss the sand and buy fresh, keep all current rocks, that I can make the switch without a new cycle happening. In the new tank I would like some more rock, I need probably another 30-40pounds. I’m assuming if I use live rock I couldn’t just add all that to my new tank at once without it cycling again so what is the best way to do this?


Should I start adding live rock slowly to my current tank so when I switch I have all the rock I need?

Should I buy it all at once and just put in a bucket to cycle on its own?

Should I use dry rock once the new tank is set up?

I’d love to get some people’s opinions on this or past experience.

 

[PatW]

You have live rock already. So you could just buy some nice dry rock and cure it in a bucket of saltwater and a powerhead. You could even cycle it with some ammonia from your LFS. Your existing live rock will seed the new stuff so why pay the premium?

As for amount, many people are going more minimalist with rock. Your existing rock is probably enough especially if you put some rock rubble in your sump or some ceramics that mimic rock.

The amount you will want to use should be guided more by what kind of aquascape you want than by poundage.

Also remember that rock is not all alike. Highly porous rock gives you more effective bacterial sites than dense rock. So 3 lbs of dense rock might be as effective as 1 lb of a really porous rock.

 

[Michigan Reefer]

I have a 55 gallon tank with about 30 pounds of live rock. I am currently looking to upgrade my tank to a 75 gallon in the next couple months. I plan to put the new tank where the current tank is so I will have to do the switch in one day. From what I have been reading it seems that if I take everything out of my current tank, keep as much water as possible, toss the sand and buy fresh, keep all current rocks, that I can make the switch without a new cycle happening. In the new tank I would like some more rock, I need probably another 30-40pounds. I’m assuming if I use live rock I couldn’t just add all that to my new tank at once without it cycling again so what is the best way to do this?


Should I start adding live rock slowly to my current tank so when I switch I have all the rock I need?

Should I buy it all at once and just put in a bucket to cycle on its own?

Should I use dry rock once the new tank is set up?

I’d love to get some people’s opinions on this or past experience.

I agree with Pat. I'm currently doing the same thing as upgrading to a new bigger system. Difference is I killed off a lot of pest I had in my old rock with bleach and now cycling it with some old rock and biospheres which hold bacteria. This is all in a rubber tote with a heater and pump for flow. I feed it some fish food every now and then to keep bacteria growing and spreading onto the old dead rock i'm trying to revitalize. I then can introduce this new cycled rock with my water and some rock from my older system. I just don't trust buying live rock anymore from LFS with some many possibly pests. Good luck.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

From the standpoint of whether you'd kick off another cycle by doing an all-in-one-day transfer, I think the answer is "it depends on how you do it". If you're careful to keep the rock from your tank in aerated seawater during the transfer, and the tank has a relatively low bio-load, I think you're good. As for the sand, you could go a couple of routes - one's just to remove the sand from the tank and flush the crap out of it with tap water until the overflow water runs clear, rinse it in RODI to remove residual chlorine/chloramine, and use it. I've done this several times with no ill effects.

I mention this because if you buy all new sand, you'd probably still want to rinse the heck out of it with flowing tap water to avoid a white-out when you put it in the tank. So there's not going to be much difference between rinsing and re-using the old sand vs. getting all-new sand.

The question about new rock is, in my opinion, also an "it depends". If it's truly live rock that you're thinking about getting, then it would depend on the source. Since wild live rock is no longer available in the 'states, it would have to come from either aquacultured live rock from the gulf of mexico ala KP Aquatics or Tampa Bay Saltwater, or it would be aquacultured rock from Fiji (Walt Smith). If it's coming from TBS, he ships the rock overnight in water, and there's little to no die-off. KP Aquatics ships in wet newspaper, and as far as I'm aware, that rock would need to be cycled in a trash can for a couple of weeks before use. The artificial aquacultured rock from Walt Smith/Fiji that I've seen at my LFS of late has little in the way of sponges that would potentially pollute a tank, but it's probably still advisable to cycle it for a while in a trash can before use.

 

[New&no clue]

I think I’m confused now.

So you could just buy some nice dry rock and cure it in a bucket of saltwater and a powerhead. You could even cycle it with some ammonia

What is the difference between curing and cycling? I thought they were the same thing.

 

[New&no clue]

mention this because if you buy all new sand, you'd probably still want to rinse the heck out of it with flowing tap water to avoid a white-out when you put it in the tank.

What is the process for rinsing sand. I’m definitely getting new sand as I don’t like the coarseness of my current sand

 

[Dkeller_nc]

It's straightforward - put the sand in a 5 gallon bucket with plenty of headroom (or several buckets if you've got a lot of sand), stick a hose in it, and turn the water on. Stir the sand while the hose is running to flush out all of the fine particles. When the overflow water runs clear or almost clear, turn the hose off, pour off as much water as you can, and re-fill the bucket with RODI. Allow that to stand for 20 minutes or so, then pour off the RODI. The sand's ready to use at that point.

That last step with the RODI, by the way, is intended to remove most of the chlorine/chloramine in treated municipal water. If you're using well water, that's not necessary.

 

[Michigan Reefer]

It's straightforward - put the sand in a 5 gallon bucket with plenty of headroom (or several buckets if you've got a lot of sand), stick a hose in it, and turn the water on. Stir the sand while the hose is running to flush out all of the fine particles. When the overflow water runs clear or almost clear, turn the hose off, pour off as much water as you can, and re-fill the bucket with RODI. Allow that to stand for 20 minutes or so, then pour off the RODI. The sand's ready to use at that point.

That last step with the RODI, by the way, is intended to remove most of the chlorine/chloramine in treated municipal water. If you're using well water, that's not necessary.

Is the sand out of the bag bad for our systems? I've never washed sand before and thought I wanted the bacteria that was already in there?

 

[New&no clue]

Is the sand out of the bag bad for our systems? I've never washed sand before and thought I wanted the bacteria that was already in there?

Yes, I would be buying new sand from my LFS probably CaribSea pink fiji or Oolite. I agree I would think it shouldn't be washed because then aren't you flushing all the good bacteria? I could be very wrong... but just at face value it seems counterproductive to the end goal with live sand.

 

[New&no clue]

So I think the best bet for rock is to use dry rock. I was thinking Reef Saver from BRS. However, I'm still confused on the curing process. I have watched several YouTube videos and read some articles. But basically I just put the new rock into a bucket; add salt water, heater, and pump or power head to circulate the water... and just wait? I read on one thread that you can add a piece of live rock that you already have in your tank, is that better than just adding bacteria from a bottle?

 

[Michigan Reefer]

So I think the best bet for rock is to use dry rock. I was thinking Reef Saver from BRS. However, I'm still confused on the curing process. I have watched several YouTube videos and read some articles. But basically I just put the new rock into a bucket; add salt water, heater, and pump or power head to circulate the water... and just wait? I read on one thread that you can add a piece of live rock that you already have in your tank, is that better than just adding bacteria from a bottle?

Right, I would add some pieces of already existing rock you have from your established tank in the same bucket with new dry rock. This will speed up the process of cycling the new rock with beneficial bacteria from the old cured rock. You can add more bacteria to help , but I would feed or drop some shrimp or something in there also to kick start the cycle for the bacteria to eat on.

 

[mfinn]

So I think the best bet for rock is to use dry rock. I was thinking Reef Saver from BRS. However, I'm still confused on the curing process. I have watched several YouTube videos and read some articles. But basically I just put the new rock into a bucket; add salt water, heater, and pump or power head to circulate the water... and just wait? I read on one thread that you can add a piece of live rock that you already have in your tank, is that better than just adding bacteria from a bottle?

Normally if I were just going to add a few extra lbs of rock to the total, I would first make sure it's clean, then just add it to the existing tank.
But since you are doubling the amount of rock I would would get a plastic garbage can or other container add, rock, saltwater, powerhead, and bacteria and ammonia and cure it before the new tank comes.
By using a piece of live rock you can cycle the dry rock, but it will be much faster to add bacteria.

 

[doodledreads]

Curing is basically what you said, just change the water a few times if you can. Curing is for getting rid of any organics stuck in a dry or live rock which could leech slowly keeping the nutrients - especially phosphates. Curing can be done outside your tank. Cycling is to establish the beneficial bacteria in your reef tank that processes Ammonia and Nitrites. Cycling is usually done in the reef tank, followed by a large water change to export all the end product - Nitrates. You do not need to add bacteria during curing but doesn't hurt, where as adding bacteria during cycling will speedup the process compared to starting with none. You will also need some kind of ammonia source during cycling to feed the bacteria, and you do not need to do it for curing. Hope that helps to differentiate curing and cycling.

If you want to go a further step during curing, test for phosphates when you to see if if your rock or sand is leaching any after a few days, you can potentially solve it using Lanthanum Chloride before even putting the rocks in the tank. But that's probably over killing it

 

[New&no clue]

and bacteria and ammonia and cure it before the new tank comes

where as adding bacteria during cycling will speedup the process compared to starting with none.

You can add more bacteria to help

What would you suggest to use for bacteria? On BRS I see things like IO-BIO Spira or Red Sea Reef Mature Kit. Are they all pretty much the same or is there one that is the best to use?

 

[doodledreads]

What would you suggest to use for bacteria? On BRS I see things like IO-BIO Spira or Red Sea Reef Mature Kit. Are they all pretty much the same or is there one that is the best to use?

Mostly preference. A lot of brands have their own bacteria products. Just pick one you like. Some of the ones I used: Prodibio Startup, biodigest, Dr.Tim's one and only

 

[doodledreads]

What would you suggest to use for bacteria? On BRS I see things like IO-BIO Spira or Red Sea Reef Mature Kit. Are they all pretty much the same or is there one that is the best to use?

Mostly preference. A lot of brands have their own bacteria products. Just pick one you like. I used Prodibio Startup and biodigest for maintenance, Dr.Tim's one and only is also great.

 

[brandon429]

we have a big thread on using live rock to skip cycle/opt out of any wait. its main distilled points are that your new live rock should simply come from a pet store or someones tank where its been running as long as possible and looks great. cured rock due to time in state.

the more coralline the better. buy the purplest rock you can get that's been in a tank a long time, then move it over and its skip cycle. its ideal to simply transport it home in a bucket of water or a bag of water, but truly if you just bag it up wet out of the tank and take it home it'll be fine. whether adding base rock to existing, or bringing over extra new live rock, no further purchases are required as the current tank has all free seeding sources ready for free transfer.

the specific reason your new rock doesn't matter as long as its not base rock that leaches mess in the tank is because your existing rock surface area carries the tank's full bioload ability already, adding redundant surface area/new rocks needs no cost input nor wait, its redundant.

Bare amnts of live rock you already keep are working at 1/10th their total filtration ability. Meaning, if you add more fish it doesn't need catch up time, therefore adding more active surface area sure doesn't require ramp up time either. your goal is simply to move over non leaking rocks.

 

[mfinn]

What would you suggest to use for bacteria? On BRS I see things like IO-BIO Spira or Red Sea Reef Mature Kit. Are they all pretty much the same or is there one that is the best to use?

I personally like Dr Tim's One and Only bacteria,and while I'm sure there is a cheaper source of ammonia ( pee), I bought Dr. Tim"s.

 

[WVNed]

Curing - The rock releases something you don't want so you soak it in water that you change to get it out
Cycling - Making a rock live with bacteria so it acts as a biofilter. All the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate stuff.

If you went to a LFS and got 30 pounds of live rock they have in a system and brought it home without drying you could stick it in your tank and you are good to go.

I have 150 pounds of live rock from the ocean making a trip to me on an airplane right now. Since it has been out of the water some stuff may die. I will have to let this stuff cycle for a while until the ammonia goes away. It is live rock too but is handled a little different than a rock you buy at the LFS.

So if you put your old rock in your new tank with live rock from a local source and new sand it's about as easy as it's going to get. Doing a tank upgrade I usually use 75% new water and the rest old water I removed from the tank when I started but befor I stirred everything up moving rocks.

 

[New&no clue]

So this is slightly off topic but, you know how the internet is always listening... so after posting my last question all my ads have been for different start up options. Dr. Tim’s has come up a lot. But I also keep seeing

LIVE CORALLINE ALGAE IN A BOTTLE

Is that a real thing? They sell it at Algae Barn and Amazon has it too.