Adding new fish to a tank with 2 clowns

[D-back]

Hi,

I have a quick question to you more experienced reefers. I have a 29 gallon reef tank. At first it was cycled for 2 months with a spike, then 2 small clowns were introduced with a clean up crew, later a few soft corals. A month after that I added a small Royal Gramma, but 2 days later he died - stuck into a small recess in the porous pukani rock. I added a bigger, strong and healthy looking Gramma. He was doing great for a week, out in the open a lot, feeding well. The female clown, what usually is pretty tough on the male seemed to be peaceful with the gramma. The one day I found the gramma hiding with a chewed up tail fin. The next day the fin was nearly completely missing. Now I can't even find the Gramma any more, likely dead. My question is, what to do with the clowns? I want to add more fish....After some research, here are my ideas:

1. Return the clowns, get new fish, add new clowns when all other desired fish are in.
2. Return the clowns, get new gramma and clowns, introduce them together.
3. Return the female clown, add new fish to the male.
4. Take clowns out, put new fish in, return the same clowns a few days later.

I eventually want to keep 1-2 clowns for sure... I spent a lot of time trying to figure out an aquascape and formed the pukani exactly to fit my imagined scape, so I don't really want to rearrange the rocks.

My parameters are: 29G, Reef octopus 1000 HOB skimmer, 18% water changes every week, live rock, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 5-10, salinity 1.026, temp 80F.

2 clowns, 1 likely dead gramma somewhere, 4 small zoa frags, GSP, 1 big red legged hermit, 4 scarlet hermits, 10 mini blue legged hermits, 8 snails, 1 urchin

Any advice would be helpful...
Thanks

 

[tyler1503]

You'll have a tough time finding another fish that will get along with the clowns. Do you have a sump?
You could sump the clowns for a few weeks while new additions settle. You want the more docile fish to settle in before adding anything aggressive.
If the sump option isn't possible perhaps your LFS could hold the clowns for you while a new addition settles in?

 

[Stigigemla]

All clowns are very aggressive in their small territory. But the aggresivity is different versus different species. The most hated is the hands of the aquarium owner. After that is other Damsels, Pseudochromis, Grammas and other bottom feeders. My pair do not care much for Pseudanthias. The Tangs was not very popular at start but after a few years they have learned that Tangs do not threat their eggs. It is very interesting to see a yellow tang picking from the stone less than an inch from the eggs when Chromis retrofasciata will be fiercely chased away more than a foot away.
A 29 gallon cube do not have much space outside of the clown only area. Maybe a blenny will function. Sometimes they do not care much about blennies but other pairs do.

 

[D-back]

Thanks for the quick replies guys, just for clarification, it's not a cube, but a longitudinal 29G tank, so there is space for 2 distinct rock structures.

I love variety, so the clowns will eventually need to get used to new tank mates with the use of some trick, or they'll have to go.

I'll try to post a picture of the setup too.

 

[Carl Rosleck]

As I am new to Saltwater I was a little surprised to read that Clowns are aggressive. I was told to start with a clown and add 2-3 more in my tank a few weeks afterwards. I am about 1/2 way thru my first cycle and all the levels look good. I will be adding a CUC in a week or two. I was planning on starting with a Clown to start....is there a better option? I am looking for non aggressive.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Are you quarantining the fish before adding them to the tank?

I seriously doubt those small clown fish are the ones behind the two royal gramma deaths.

 

[D-back]

Are you quarantining the fish before adding them to the tank?

I seriously doubt those small clown fish are the ones behind the two royal gramma deaths.

Hi,

I don't have the means of quarantining my fish, but the gramma was swimming happily, eating a lot one day with 100% intact fins, and the next day it was looking extremely stressed, hiding in the rock work with his tail fin nearly completely missing. I'm not sure if there is any disease capable of completely destroying, basically fully removing a tail fin within a day.

PS, I didn't put any wet live rock into the tank, so having something like a mantis shrimp seems unlikely. I put 100% dry pukani rock only, what I then cured for over a month, while already dosing bacteria, then I cycled for over 2 months.

 

[alanbetiger]

Buy an acclimation box or make a cheap one. Just a holding tank inside your tank for a new addition to live in for days/weeks. It can help with aggression.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Hi,

I don't have the means of quarantining my fish, but the gramma was swimming happily, eating a lot one day with 100% intact fins, and the next day it was looking extremely stressed, hiding in the rock work with his tail fin nearly completely missing. I'm not sure if there is any disease capable of completely destroying, basically fully removing a tail fin within a day.

PS, I didn't put any wet live rock into the tank, so having something like a mantis shrimp seems unlikely. I put 100% dry pukani rock only, what I then cured for over a month, while already dosing bacteria, then I cycled for over 2 months.

There isn't but introducing a small fish with an internal injury or bacteria skin illness can severely intensify with stress in a new tank.

Those abrasions could most likely have occurred while in the very porus pukani rock.

 

[D-back]

Buy an acclimation box or make a cheap one. Just a holding tank inside your tank for a new addition to live in for days/weeks. It can help with aggression.

Hmm....this seems promising. I think I'll give this option a try next time....regardless of my to be made decision about the clowns.

There isn't but introducing a small fish with an internal injury or bacteria skin illness can severely intensify with stress in a new tank.

Those abrasions could most likely have occurred while in the very porus pukani rock.

I see now. The damage really seemed like inflicted by another animal, and I've seen the female clown to pull the male by the tail fin earlier (although without causing permanent damage), but I see your point now.

 

[tyler1503]

As I am new to Saltwater I was a little surprised to read that Clowns are aggressive. I was told to start with a clown and add 2-3 more in my tank a few weeks afterwards. I am about 1/2 way thru my first cycle and all the levels look good. I will be adding a CUC in a week or two. I was planning on starting with a Clown to start....is there a better option? I am looking for non aggressive.

Clowns are hands down one of the most aggressive fish in the hobby. They'll take on anything and usually win.




I doubt those abrasions were caused by the rock. Perhaps if you had really high flow and the abrasions were on the body, but I doubt caudal fin abrasions were caused by the rock. I'd point the finger at the female clown. Fish are good swimmers after all, it's what they do best
That's just what I'm thinking at the moment.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Clowns are hands down one of the most aggressive fish in the hobby. They'll take on anything and usually win.

Are you serious? Not true what so ever. Some species are semi aggressive (maroons) but aggression takes time to developed. It's not instantaneous.



I

doubt those abrasions were caused by the rock. Perhaps if you had really high flow and the abrasions were on the body, but I doubt caudal fin abrasions were caused by the rock. I'd point the finger at the female clown. Fish are good swimmers after all, it's what they do best
That's just what I'm thinking at the moment.

It's very likely and clowns that small only exhibit dominance and cannot yet establish and transform to the female sex. Might wanna read up on that.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Rearrange your rock when introducing new fish if you're unable to obtain an acclimation box. This lessens aggression from your tank if you believe the clowns are the cause of your fishes death.

 

[tyler1503]

Are you serious? Not true what so ever. Some species are semi aggressive (maroons) but aggression takes time to developed. It's not instantaneous.

I'm just going off my experience here. I'm a hobbyist, not a marine biologist
I've seen clowns try to attack people through the glass, draw blood, kill larger and typically more aggressive fish, you name it.
Do a search on clown aggression and I bet 95% of what comes up will suggest they're aggressive, especially when kept as a bonded pair or while spawning.
Personally, I'd be more inclined to have my hand in a tank full of scorpionfish and morays than in a tank with spawning clowns.

 

[jeff williams]

Rearrange your rock when introducing new fish if you're unable to obtain an acclimation box. This lessens aggression from your tank if you believe the clowns are the cause of your fishes death.

+1 if you suspect the clown rearrange the tank right before you add a new fish see if it helps

 

[dreamsr]

+1 if you suspect the clown rearrange the tank right before you add a new fish see if it helps

I know you said you don't want to rearrange because you wanted it set up in a very specific way. After everybody's settled in, you could return it to this arrangement, maybe one piece at a time.

 

[D-back]

I know you said you don't want to rearrange because you wanted it set up in a very specific way. After everybody's settled in, you could return it to this arrangement, maybe one piece at a time.

This is a very sensible advice, thanks. I was hesitant to rearrange, but as you said, after some time I can go back to the look I prefer. For some reason, before I was always thinking about rearrangement being permanent. Thanks.