Adding New sand on top new sand?
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Jedi1199
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Hogwash!! An established tank of 1.5 yrs has all the cycling bacteria it needs.
Rinse the new sand thoroughly. Try to get rid of as much dust as possible and then add it in. I suggest using a large cup for this and try to sprinkle it as close to the bottom as possible to avoid making the tank cloudy.
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The OP didnt say how much new sand he is planning to add nor did he mention the tank size. It is also a common knowledge that adding dead rock or sand to a tank, especially a smaller one, could start a mini cycle. Idk how that’s hogwash. My recommendation is on the safe side of things. You should think before saying things.
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Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
I respectfully disagree.
Tank size is irrelevant. A tank that is fully established and been running for over a year and a half is fully cycled, period. IDK where people come up with ideas of a "mini cycle" but you should do some homework on that. There is no such thing.
To raise the sand bed on ANY size tank by 1/2 inch is not enough to skew ANY cycle on ANY tank, be it the smallest 1/2 gallon pico to the largest industrial tank around. This is fact and indisputable.
The cycling bacteria colonies live and thrive in the rocks, not the sand. Basically, EVERY single surface inside a running system supports the cycling bacteria. Believe it or not, even the water itself has cycling bacteria suspended in it.
Do you doubt that last? I have proof firsthand in the form of a 32g bucket I tossed about 30 pounds of plain dry rock into last year. I filled the bucket with nothing more than waste water from water changes. That rock is fully cycled and ready to use as is in ANY system, be it a startup or an established system.
Further... Although the OP did not specify that he or she is using "live sand" or dry, Live sand does not need to be cycled at all because it is harvested from a cycled system. It is bagged and marketed as "ready to use" and in my experience has never caused any issues with cycling. Dry sand (which by the way is very uncommon in the hobby as it is difficult to find) would still not cause cycling issues.
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Jedi1199
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I'm sorry, but this is just such a false claim that it needs to be addressed directly.
Where is this common knowledge coming from? Adding dead or dry rock to a tank does not, I repeat NOT cause a mini cycle. There is no such thing as a mini cycle. Adding a bunch of dry rock may cause mineral issues, but will absolutely not in any way affect the cycle on a tank.
Since you obviously doubt my knowledge, let us differ to someone else... @brandon429 Any thoughts here?
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I do the same thing with new or dead rocks but that process did take time - at least two weeks.
These so called live sand in a bag aren’t the same as the rocks we prepared. I had the same need last year on my 15 yr old 180G. I wanted to add new “live” sand from a bag & probably posted the same question on this forum. There were mixed responses. Some like you. Some aren’t so I decided to throw those sand in a clean 5g bucket and added some newly prepare salt water, and tested for ammonia the next day. Sure enough - it was plenty.
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You seem to take different pt of view or opinion so seriously as if it offends you. That’s just silly. Had I provided a dangerous idea, then I get your high and almighty response. But i didn’t so I think you need to re-think about why you come on here. Are you here to help others or just here to boost your own ego?
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Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
How does this prove any claim of a "mini cycle"?
Since you didn't say that you took some rocks from your established system and add them to the bucket with the new sand, where are the nitrifying bacteria that are plentiful in any established system?
Had you simply added the sand to the tank, any ammonia would have been immediately removed just as it is with fish waste.
Further, had you rinsed the sand first, the decaying matter which is in the live sand would have been washed away and therefore no ammonia issues at all.
I stand by my original statement.
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Well, there could be a negative impact to my system had I added those new sand that tested high in ammonia. Truth is you never know until you try it & I decided not to take that risk as it was unnecessary.
I’m not here to convince you and I’m okay if you don’t agree with me. Ultimately, this isn’t my thread and the op is the one who needs help. He can choose to take a risk or not.
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Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
I respect your attitude on that matter. If that felt like the best and safest avenue for you to follow, then by all means go for it!
My issue stems from a desire to stop the rampant regurgitation of false information. Stating that "you need to cycle the sand" is not true. Stating that adding uncycled sand could potentially start a "mini cycle" is untrue.
This is what I was addressing.
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The new sand might develop the uglies. Depending on how much sand is added the old sand surface could suffocate, killing off the organisms attached to the sand. The organisms that can move will adjust their height in the sand. Possibly no big deal though. Just a heads up.
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Roatan Reef
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I added 20lbs of Tampa Bay Live Ocean Sand onto my 30lbs of crushed Caribsea aragonite and couldn't be happier. No issues to report, other than Sand staying cleaner and whiter now...it totally didn't cause any cycling problems and has been great for my tank!!¡
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Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
Have you actually read any of the posts I have made or did you stop at "hogwash" and start telling me I am stupid and need to think before speaking?
I have quite clearly explained this. Yes my "one size fits all" approach is quite valid because no other parameters of the OP tank have any impact on what he intends to do. He could add as much clean rinsed sand as he wants and it wouldn't hurt anything.
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I kept thinking this whole time: which test kit said bagged sand contained ammonia
perhaps the same brand that if we search “_________ reef tank ammonia misread .25”. (Insert test kit name brand) comes back at 450,000 pages of false reads in perfectly normal/not cycling tanks?
I would bet immediately, right off the bat, we know the name brand of the test that indicated bagged sand wasn’t safe to add due to ammonia. I will bet it’s also found in my nine page false ammonia reading thread
secondary test
for the Op:
get a clear glass of water
add one large handful of the sand you’re going to add, to that cup of water and post that video for us to see, take a cell phone video of the addition test and upload it to YouTube, post the video
does the glass stay clear? If that was your reef, would it be happy being the color and clarity of that water
once we address clouding and cycling you’ll have the answer
perhaps the same brand that if we search “_________ reef tank ammonia misread .25”. (Insert test kit name brand) comes back at 450,000 pages of false reads in perfectly normal/not cycling tanks?
I would bet immediately, right off the bat, we know the name brand of the test that indicated bagged sand wasn’t safe to add due to ammonia. I will bet it’s also found in my nine page false ammonia reading thread
secondary test
for the Op:
get a clear glass of water
add one large handful of the sand you’re going to add, to that cup of water and post that video for us to see, take a cell phone video of the addition test and upload it to YouTube, post the video
does the glass stay clear? If that was your reef, would it be happy being the color and clarity of that water
once we address clouding and cycling you’ll have the answer
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There may be mixed responses on the forum where people offer their opinions without any work links on whether adding sand would cause a cycle, but among searchable responses there’s also a sixty page sand rinsing thread that directly answers the question using hundreds of live time reef tank examples, and the patterns in the searchable thread close the door on the matter
example search:
link #3 for the win
example search:
link #3 for the win
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I don’t mind that there is constant disagreement over sand handling in reefing, the + - sum effect of it all gives us something to toil over, for thumb workouts on the iPad. you can’t believe the ire I earned on humblefish’s site this week merely posting that a fella setting up a common quarantine tank could indeed pre rinse before setting it up, to avoid the demonstrable cloud we might get to see here if the cup test is done
it was sheer anger lol from all respondents and the op, a chorus of mad heh. I stated he should pre rinse out the silt which others read as rinsing out *bacteria* the #1 thing reefers are trainer to value at all costs no matter what. What bottle bac sellers have done to the paradigm of reefing and bacteria constitutes the best marketing ploy I’ve ever seen for a given hobby. They’re trained to be viewed as short supply, dangerous to lose, then we keep buying more bacteria from different sources
I think a small portion of responsibility lies in the mods who choose what gets to be a sticky reference thread, where people don’t have to search out trending and sift through opposing responses on given procedures
one would think that handling two million dollars worth of reef sandbeds successfully over nine years on one thread would count as a reference he he
regardless, we will keep chugging along. You can’t keep a good thread down is the takeaway even if it has to keep earning its keep well past the earned date.
it was sheer anger lol from all respondents and the op, a chorus of mad heh. I stated he should pre rinse out the silt which others read as rinsing out *bacteria* the #1 thing reefers are trainer to value at all costs no matter what. What bottle bac sellers have done to the paradigm of reefing and bacteria constitutes the best marketing ploy I’ve ever seen for a given hobby. They’re trained to be viewed as short supply, dangerous to lose, then we keep buying more bacteria from different sources
I think a small portion of responsibility lies in the mods who choose what gets to be a sticky reference thread, where people don’t have to search out trending and sift through opposing responses on given procedures
one would think that handling two million dollars worth of reef sandbeds successfully over nine years on one thread would count as a reference he he
regardless, we will keep chugging along. You can’t keep a good thread down is the takeaway even if it has to keep earning its keep well past the earned date.
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Does anyone here do planted tanks
ever read about a walstad substrate setup/ google it
that’s where you cap off a very high organic layer of actual potting soil with rather inert common planted tank substrate so nutrients continually leak up into the tank for plant growth, but at a controlled pace.
that’s what capping off old reef sand with new does, it buries detritus best removed as new nutrient strata in the tank, that way we can get some gha and cyano work threads out of the tank several months later. The right way to add sand is to pre rinse it, then add it on top of clean sand, not dirty sand, so you don’t select for plant growth in a reef we want to select for hermatypic coral growth.
ever read about a walstad substrate setup/ google it
that’s where you cap off a very high organic layer of actual potting soil with rather inert common planted tank substrate so nutrients continually leak up into the tank for plant growth, but at a controlled pace.
that’s what capping off old reef sand with new does, it buries detritus best removed as new nutrient strata in the tank, that way we can get some gha and cyano work threads out of the tank several months later. The right way to add sand is to pre rinse it, then add it on top of clean sand, not dirty sand, so you don’t select for plant growth in a reef we want to select for hermatypic coral growth.
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