Adding nutrients to my system. Your thoughts on my approach.

[Livinlocal]

I want to get peoples advice on the best way to add nutrients to my system because my phosphates and nitrates are undetectable, and I feed a ungodly amount of food every day.

To tell you a little bit about my system...

I have a bare bottom 180 gallon display that is plumbed into a bare bottom 80 gallon frag tank, and a 60 gallon sump that has a refugium with 5 different macros powered by a kessil H380.


I have a automatic feeder that feeds pellets, reef Roids, and reef frenzy 3 times a day, and they get about 5 cubes of mysis almost daily and my nutrients are still undetectable. I’m using a Hanna handheld electronic tester for my phosphate and Salifert for my nitrate.


So this is where I need opinions. I am thinking about adding a deep sand bed to my refugium in hopes of it generating nitrates over time after setttling in. Would this be a good theory? When I used to have a sandbed in my display I was always fighting to keep my nutrients down, now that I went bare bottom a few years ago, I have been fighting to keep them up. I have also thought about dosing nutrients, but I’m trying to avoid having to dose anything.

Let me know your thoughts, or if there is something easier I just am not aware of. Any input would be appreciated.

Here is a link to my build thread for anyone interested.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/livinlocal’s-living-ocean.351562/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think you'd be much better off dosing appropriate amounts of N and P rather than hoping a deep sand bed will add nitrate. Many folks think they decrease nitrate.

 

[Livinlocal]

I think you'd be much better off dosing appropriate amounts of N and P rather than hoping a deep sand bed will add nitrate. Many folks think they decrease nitrate.

Any chance you might be able to steer me in the right direction for a recommended product? I am not totally against dosing, I just personally have not seen enough research backed products that convince me it’s safe to add into my system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Any chance you might be able to steer me in the right direction for a recommended product? I am not totally against dosing, I just personally have not seen enough research backed products that convince me it’s safe to add into my system.

There are tons of people dosing nitrate and phosphate, and tons of threads on it. They've done the trial and error research already.

I recommend food grade sodium or potassium nitrate and phosphate. Amazon and other sellers sell it.

Here's a thread discussing the issue for nitrate dosing:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/should-i-dose-nitrates.374630/

 

[mtraylor]

Just from looking at your picture of your aquarium, it looks like everything is doing well. So why are you trying to add nutrients? Any reason? Are you looking to get some nice Cyano going somewhere

LOL. Seriously it looks like your aquarium is awesome. Personally I would keep doing what you are doing. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Livinlocal]

There are tons of people dosing nitrate and phosphate, and tons of threads on it. They've done the trial and error research already.

I recommend food grade sodium or potassium nitrate and phosphate. Amazon and other sellers sell it.

Here's a thread discussing the issue for nitrate dosing:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/should-i-dose-nitrates.374630/

Thank you, I will give it a read

 

[Livinlocal]

Just from looking at your picture of your aquarium, it looks like everything is doing well. So why are you trying to add nutrients? Any reason? Are you looking to get some nice Cyano going somewhere

LOL. Seriously it looks like your aquarium is awesome. Personally I would keep doing what you are doing. Nothing more nothing less.

Thank you. It’s mainly to keep good growth rates and to not depend on feeding so heavily to make the nutrients detectable. I’m trying to find an alternative to feeding an entire bulk sheet of mysis to my system on a weekly basis, on top of the daily feeding out of the automated feeder

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just from looking at your picture of your aquarium, it looks like everything is doing well. So why are you trying to add nutrients? Any reason? Are you looking to get some nice Cyano going somewhere

LOL. Seriously it looks like your aquarium is awesome. Personally I would keep doing what you are doing. Nothing more nothing less.

For many suggested "improvements" that is good advice, but undetectable nutrients is a risk for dinos. If for no other reason, maintaining some nutrients can be desirable to reduce the chance of dinos becoming problematic.

 

[Livinlocal]

I should also add that this is intended to keep my SPS colored up. I noticed that when my nutrients are undetectable for too long, and I don’t feed extremely heavy, they start to lose their color.

 

[mtraylor]

Thank you. It’s mainly to keep good growth rates and to not depend on feeding so heavily to make the nutrients detectable. I’m trying to find an alternative to feeding an entire bulk sheet of mysis to my system on a weekly basis, on top of the daily feeding out of the automated feeder

Oh ok. Makes since. I feed my aquarium 2 times a day. Nori in morning and frozen foods at evening. Nutrients are real stable. I have allot of fish as well.

 

[mtraylor]

For many suggested "improvements" that is good advice, but undetectable nutrients is a risk for dinos. If for no other reason, maintaining some nutrients can be desirable to reduce the chance of dinos becoming problematic.

Yeah I agree. No nutrients can also kill corals.

 

[chris85]

What's your fish load?

 

[Livinlocal]

What's your fish load?

Extremely heavy as well.


7 large tang, massive copperband, small copperband, 2 clown pairs, huge 6 line, large rabbit fish, mandarin, dottyback, large blenny, pair of cleaner shrimp, coral banded shrimp, and probably others I may be forgetting

 

[chris85]

You could try a whale shark!!LOL

What kind of equipment/filtration besides the fuge?

 

[mcarroll]

I'd have to say it's the chaeto....I don't even see why you'd grow it if you don't have high nutrient levels.

At minimum I'd harvest the volume of chaeto down to a smaller amount.

But I'd also consider turning down the light and/or slowing the flow to it.

And I'd even maybe consider shutting it down altogether, depending on how the tank does as you scale it back.

In the short term I agree with Randy that dosing nutrients is smart and will help put a stop to any damage done or "inspiration" you've been providing to dino's.

But unless a major reason for having the tank is to grow chaeto, then it seems like you'd mostly be feeding that vs your corals.

Unless you also have extra bio-media and/or a GFO reactor and/or a bio-pellet reactor to point the finger at, then I see the chaeto refugium's draw on your dissolved nutrients as the root of your problem.

I’m trying to find an alternative to feeding an entire bulk sheet of mysis to my system on a weekly basis, on top of the daily feeding out of the automated feeder

I'm not sure that qualifies as heavy, given your fish list+the refugium+corals you're trying to feed "downstream". What is your auto-feeder putting out and how often?

IMO it sounds like you ought to consider making your own food and/or using larger whole-frozen items such as clams....feed em like @Paul B does. Try to feed some live foods like he does as well. And maximize the auto-feeder....mine will do up to 8 feedings a day, for example.

 

[Livinlocal]

You could try a whale shark!!LOL

What kind of equipment/filtration besides the fuge?

That would certainly add nutrients haha.

I only use a skimmer, carbon reactor, and my refugium for filtration.

 

[Coronus]

Honestly your fish load isent that big at all for your set up. 16 fish with 320 total gallon of water is way low IMO.
Dont dose anything. I would stop right their! Playing with gas and a lighter. Add more fish. Add fish to the frag tank. I have 30 fish in 180 gallons with great color and undectable po4 and no3 full sps
Add fish, add fish, add fish. Do water changes regularly .
Keep it simple! You have a ton of water volume. Probably a hug skimmer too. Plus your running a fuge and pulling po4 from the water. Turn the fuge light off! I run no fuge and just let it go. When I see a spike, I run a tiny bit of GFOand I mean tiny for a few days then turn it off. Other wise I lose color. All great systems have a bit of algae. You can have great color on sps corals with undectable nutrient levels. Been doing it for 7 years in this system.

 

[Livinlocal]

I'd have to say it's the chaeto....I don't even see why you'd grow it if you don't have high nutrient levels.

At minimum I'd harvest the volume of chaeto down to a smaller amount.

But I'd also consider turning down the light and/or slowing the flow to it.

And I'd even maybe consider shutting it down altogether, depending on how the tank does as you scale it back.

In the short term I agree with Randy that dosing nutrients is smart and will help put a stop to any damage done or "inspiration" you've been providing to dino's.

But unless a major reason for having the tank is to grow chaeto, then it seems like you'd mostly be feeding that vs your corals.

Unless you also have extra bio-media and/or a GFO reactor and/or a bio-pellet reactor to point the finger at, then I see the chaeto refugium's draw on your dissolved nutrients as the root of your problem.



I'm not sure that qualifies as heavy, given your fish list+the refugium+corals you're trying to feed "downstream". What is your auto-feeder putting out and how often?

IMO it sounds like you ought to consider making your own food and/or using larger whole-frozen items such as clams....feed em like @Paul B does. Try to feed some live foods like he does as well. And maximize the auto-feeder....mine will do up to 8 feedings a day, for example.

Thank you for your post.

I also believe it may be the macro algae but I trim it back quite frequently and Cheato is just one of the species of algae in my sump. Maybe I should trim large quantities when I cut it out. I also can’t limit the flow into the refugium or shut it off because it’s inside my sump. I could possibly limit the hours on the h380 but there are also a couple mangroves that depend on this light so that could possible pose an issue.


As for Dino’s, I don’t have any and have not seen any signs of them. I don’t believe I will have an issue there.

It may not sound like a lot of food to be called heavy, but my fish literally look like their bellies are going to pop because they are so fat haha. I am going to take your advice and start preparing foods. I have always thought about it, just never pulled the trigger. I do have a small culture of pods that I recently started but other then that, it’s all purchased frozen and dry foods.

 

[Livinlocal]

Honestly your fish load isent that big at all for your set up. 16 fish with 320 total gallon of water is way low IMO.
Dont dose anything. I would stop right their! Playing with gas and a lighter. Add more fish. Add fish to the frag tank. I have 30 fish in 180 gallons with great color and undectable po4 and no3 full sps
Add fish, add fish, add fish. Do water changes regularly .
Keep it simple! You have a ton of water volume. Probably a hug skimmer too. Plus your running a fuge and pulling po4 from the water. Turn the fuge light off! I run no fuge and just let it go. When I see a spike, I run a tiny bit of GFOand I mean tiny for a few days then turn it off. Other wise I lose color. All great systems have a bit of algae. You can have great color on sps corals with undectable nutrient levels. Been doing it for 7 years in this system.

My sps have great color, it’s not about that at all. It’s just about being on the edge of undetectable nutrients. I’m trying to be proactive so they don’t loose color. I do think that is also good advice to add more fish. I just don’t want to set up a quarantine and risk adding sick fish. My Naso and sail fin are 13 years old, the thought of them contracting something from a new fish scares me.

 

[Coronus]

If you dont have color issues, why would you want to add more nutrients?
Being proactive can work in reverse. You could cause an algae bloom for no real reason other than trying to fix an issue that hasent happened yet. And hurt a perfectly good system!
Some systems cant handle detectable nutrients and bloom out! I would leave a good thing alone. JMO. Happy reefing!