Adequate filtration?

[Maddlesrain]

I'm in the process of tearing down my old tank and starting up a new build and am currently doing research and trying to figure out how exactly I want to do this one. I want the stock to be very different from my current reef and have a couple gadgets I want to hook up which are making me wonder how exactly I should filter this new tank.

The tank is going to be roughly 30 gallons (it's being custom built so not an exact estimate), with about 20 gallons worth of sump water. So an overall body of roughly 50 gallons.

I'm thinking of adding a very oversized skimmer and using that as my only means of mechanical filtration. I'm looking at one of the smaller deltec models, either the SCA1351 or SC1351, haven't decided which to go with (if you have a preference toss that in here while you're at it!!)


One reason for the massive skimmer on such a small tank is because I'm planning to rig myself up an automatic feeder to dose the tank with frozen foods throughout the day (about 7 times a day) for non-photosynthetic gorgonian corals which need (from what I've researched) multiple feedings to stay healthy along with keeping fish such as pipes and my mandarin (he eats frozen) well fed.


Because the feeder will be in the sump and the food will be added to the return box, I cannot add any sort of filtration to the return line as many people do as the food would get sucked right into the reactors and clog them up/ cause more issues than actually be useful.


There will also be a wide variety of macros in the tank as I have really grown to love the plants and would like to incorporate them in my reef. So I suppose they'll filter a bit as well.


Do you all think the skimmer will be enough? Too much? There will be a filter sock at the in-line part of the sump as well.


Thanks in advance, sorry if any of that was confusing!

 

[Cory]

If the purpose of a big skimmer is to prevent algae growth and keep a healthy tank, It doesnt matter how big a skimmer you get, it could be the size of an apartment, and algae will still grow and nutrients will still climb.

With that kind of feeding your going to need to figure out how youll remove the leftovers before it rots, or how youll remove the nutrients it makes. Algae turf scrubber, gfo phosphate removal. Filter socks, roller mat, bare bottom system.

A skimmer at best (studies) will remove 30% of doc. With carbon and ozone together it can remove 70% oddly.

 

[Maddlesrain]

@Cory so the large skimmer is essentially useless? I was under the impression that a larger skimmer was better than under skimming.

I was thinking of possibly running GFO and carbon through BRS reactors on the drain line (because the return is out), but am worried that might also cause clogging. Although, maybe not.

I was thinking of maybe running a bag of carbon in one of the sump chambers as well, so that the water would have to pass over it, rather than a reactor, if the drain line would be too much of a hassle.

I will have a filter sock and then the macros as a form of natural nutrient removal.

 

[Maddlesrain]

Something that might solve all my problems - I'll be able to run the carbon and GFO filtration on the return line without the worry of food clogging, is to simply run the feeding pump straight to the display. I wanted to see if I could avoid this, however, and keep it all in the sump. As far as I've read, the DOS pump which I plan to use for the feeder has a head pressure of 24', so it shouldn't have any trouble getting to the display. I just wanted to see if there was a possibility of not needing anything other than the skimmer. If having the other two is pretty pertinent to maintaining a clean reef I can definitely change the location of the feed line! Just wanted to rule out everything else first.

 

[Cory]

Skimmer are useful on doc, and sometimes poc, but to get out uneaten fish food and poo you need a specialized system to remove the poc. And a very powerful skimmer, like a becket or downdraft. This is the mechanics of a bare bottom system, get it all out before it breaks down.

But bacteria will always get at some of it, and so will the algae if your going to feed the tank.

So you need to remove what skimmers wont, no3 and po4. Algae remove those, and sometimes large coral growths can suffice.

This is why we use gfo, its a balancing act of food in food out.

Skimmers remove 30% at best. Carbon and ozone can remove the other 70% left over strangely.

So if you use a skimmer, ozone and carbon, you can essentially remove 100% of doc, but not the food, poo and other waste that settles down in the tank, hiding in the rocks.

Reef stuff is all bandaids to fix an attempted ecosystem, but its not an ecosystem at all. We constantly put food in, and take little out.

An ecosystem works by recycling all the food from one organism to another up the food chain. See? Our tanks are differnt.

You want a solution? Water change 20-60% daily. or use band aids to cover up our artifical ecosystems in a box.

 

[Maddlesrain]

@Cory
I think from what you're saying that going with my second proposal will be the better of the two options for sure. Doing such large- scale water changes daily really isn't feasible for me or many reefers... so I understand where you're coming from.

Just wanted to test out my options before going with one over the other. I know people do heavy feedings and multiple daily feedings for their finicky fish, but there are just so many filtering options and techniques out there that people employ... I figured throwing ideas around before settling couldn't hurt. I think I'll be happier in the long run having the reactors on the return line and simply running the food to the display

 

[Cory]

@Cory
I think from what you're saying that going with my second proposal will be the better of the two options for sure. Doing such large- scale water changes daily really isn't feasible for me or many reefers... so I understand where you're coming from.

Just wanted to test out my options before going with one over the other. I know people do heavy feedings and multiple daily feedings for their finicky fish, but there are just so many filtering options and techniques out there that people employ... I figured throwing ideas around before settling couldn't hurt. I think I'll be happier in the long run having the reactors on the return line and simply running the food to the display

Well sort of. What youll need once you get po4 and no3 to zeros, is something to eat the excess in your display. Snails, sea hare, crabs, etcetera.

A big skimmer and macroalgae should help but you will never get rid of the bottom of the food chain. You need something to eat it.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Skimmer Dsb and carbon dosing. It's how the pros do it in propagating non photo coral research. Gorgs are stony so you'll need calalk dosing Any way so plan on a three stage doser.

 

[Maddlesrain]

@Cory
Oh, I was definitely going to add critters like that! I was just focusing mostly on the mechanical here (save for the mentioning of macros).

I did a little digging on UV sterilizers after you mentioned them, and like the concept. Maybe I'll give one a go!

@saltyfilmfolks
I plan on adding a doser once the tank matures a little. Right now water changes have been good enough for the ones I have currently

As far as carbon dosing, I looked into vodka dosing, and from what I found it was "too" effective and would kill off macros along with the nuisance algae, so I had initially ruled it out. Any others that wouldn't inhibit macros?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@Cory
Oh, I was definitely going to add critters like that! I was just focusing mostly on the mechanical here (save for the mentioning of macros).

I did a little digging on UV sterilizers after you mentioned them, and like the concept. Maybe I'll give one a go!

@saltyfilmfolks
I plan on adding a doser once the tank matures a little. Right now water changes have been good enough for the ones I have currently

As far as carbon dosing, I looked into vodka dosing, and from what I found it was "too" effective and would kill off macros along with the nuisance algae, so I had initially ruled it out. Any others that wouldn't inhibit macros?

low nutrints not carbon dosing inhibits macros. you have to balance that. if your flooding the system with food, you can export excess with macros or bacteria and skimmer. if you have low nutrints dont carbon dose, if you have low nutrients you macros wont grow. seems obvious but many folks use a TON of all the above together and have dying or bleaching corals. cuz corals need nutrints, to absorb from the water.
Id use vinegar BTW
you could also use bio pellets as well, in conjunction w the skimmer. same thing. Bio filter.

 

[Maddlesrain]

low nutrints not carbon dosing inhibits macros. you have to balance that. if your flooding the system with food, you can export excess with macros or bacteria and skimmer. if you have low nutrints dont carbon dose, if you have low nutrients you macros wont grow. seems obvious but many folks use a TON of all the above together and have dying or bleaching corals. cuz corals need nutrints, to absorb from the water.
Id use vinegar BTW
you could also use bio pellets as well, in conjunction w the skimmer. same thing. Bio filter.

Makes sense!
I'll look into the vinegar and bio pellets and see which I like best and go from there. I guess I can also always take things off line/add if the need arises as well.

What are your thoughts on UV light in conjunction with the skimmer and dosing/reactor? Would you consider that over doing it?

I've never had a problem with nutrients in my tank lol that's why I'm really trying to get a hold on the filter situation from the get go on this new tank. The corals, fish, and inverts are all happy in the current set-up, but so is the nuisance algae. It's a win-lose situation for sure. Haha

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Ive never run UV so I cant comment, for seahorses Im told it can be beneficial.
Nuisance algae will live in nothing. it has to be burned with fire

 

[Maddlesrain]

Ive never run UV so I cant comment, for seahorses Im told it can be beneficial.
Nuisance algae will live in nothing. it has to be burned with fire

Ha! I'm about ready to burn all my rock with bleach and start anew!

Maybe I'll try it, see how it runs. I like the idea of nuking all the algae spores. Lol