Adopted a Tank

[mell312]

After keeping freshwater fish for almost a year we were debating if we wanted a bigger freshwater tank or a bigger saltwater tank. After deciding on a bigger freshwater tank we got an email out of the blue from a friend wanting to give us his entire 40g saltwater setup at no cost. He's had the setup running for about 10 years. So we jumped on it, but knew it would involve some work and a quick learning curve as well.

The tank was moved Saturday morning and here is what I can tell you.

Size: probably closer to 37.5g based on our measurements. Tank is odd shaped. Close to a cube but not exactly

Approx 20 lbs of live rock

Very thin bed of sand

Stock: percula clownfish (5 years old), brown clown goby (3.5 years old), bicolor blenny (3.5 years old), 2 turbo nails and countless nassarius snails

Power head - no details but present and functioning

Filter - Fluval 304 canister (old but chugging along)

Heater - 50w something that looked like a train wreck. Determined it's not working anyways and pitched it. Tank is hovering between 73 and 74 degrees. 2 new 50w heaters have been ordered and will be here tomorrow. Planning to slowly increase temp by a degree a day until we hit 78.

Food - are fed one cube of frozen brine shrimp every other day

The tank had quite a bit of green algae that we cleaned off during the move. Still have some to deal with. It is also covered with coraline which I know is a good sign, but it has covered the walls and covered the power head and return pipe of the filter. We are working slowly over time to remove it from the walls. Would love to remove it all at once but I don't have enough elbow grease and I don't want to stress the fish for too long of a period scraping.

Water parameters (don't freak...I already am)

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 200pm (or higher...color matched highest number on the color chart)
Ph - I believe was around 8.0 or 8.1

So here are my big questions that I feel are most pressing at this time:

1. Nitrates desperately need lowering through water changes. What kind of schedule would you recommend to get them down? Don't want to stress the fish by a quick major change so thinking smaller more frequent changes until we get to an acceptable level is likely best. Previous owner was doing 50% changes every 4 months. I'm thinking once we are at an acceptable level more like 10% every week to two weeks. I intend to purchase saltwater from a reputable LFS instead of mixing my own until I learn more.

2. Green algae - should I do anything at this time or do you feel I might see improvement over time as the water quality improves?

3. What other water tests are absolutely pertinent at this point so I can get the tests ordered? The test kits he provided me expired in 2007. I gave them a try since I had nothing else but I don't think they were accurate for obvious reasons. The above test results were from a strip test I happened to have on hand from my freshwater tank that I no longer use (I use API Master Kit for Freshwater now). I know liquid is better but was in a bind and the strips were good for salt and fresh.

4. The canister filter is working but is old and we will consider replacing it soon. He has only been opening it and checking it once every 4-6 months. I know not to mess with filter media but should I open it and swish the media in some old tank water when doing a water change? Can anyone recommend a new canister filter that won't break the bank and then I will keep this one as backup.

5. Is the feeding schedule and amount adequate?

6. Would like to add more sand since it's so thin...what would you recommend?

7. I know a cleanup crew is important...but can too many snails be an issue?

8. Any advice on replacing the glass canopy? It's an Oceanic top and no longer made and a weird size. It was cracked in the move and is currently duct taped together. Planning to go to a glass company tomorrow to see if they can cut glass to fit and reuse the hinge and then buy a handle which I believe I can get at a LFS.

I know this is a ton of questions, but we are excited to have adopted this tank and really want to do right by getting it back in shape and adding a little more stock down the road.

 

[Jimbo662]

My recommendation would be to get rid of the canister. Unlike a canister on a freshwater tank, on a saltwater tank you need to keep them clean all the time. This is probably where you high nitrates are coming from...you'll see people refer to them as nitrate factories. I'd look into a hang on back sump type set up. You could also probably stand to add some more rock which equal more beneficial bacteria.

If you're not planning to keep corals yet a glass lid is fine since you won't have to worry about it effecting lighting.

 

[mell312]

My recommendation would be to get rid of the canister. Unlike a canister on a freshwater tank, on a saltwater tank you need to keep them clean all the time. This is probably where you high nitrates are coming from...you'll see people refer to them as nitrate factories. I'd look into a hang on back sump type set up. You could also probably stand to add some more rock which equal more beneficial bacteria.

If you're not planning to keep corals yet a glass lid is fine since you won't have to worry about it effecting lighting.

Thanks for the quick response. We aren't planning to keep corals yet, but eventually my husband does want to move that direction. What lid would be better if we did consider corals in the future?

What would a hang on back sump type set up be? Is that different from a regular HoB filter? This the first canister filter I've dealt with. I use HoB with my FW tanks.

 

[melypr1985]

After keeping freshwater fish for almost a year we were debating if we wanted a bigger freshwater tank or a bigger saltwater tank. After deciding on a bigger freshwater tank we got an email out of the blue from a friend wanting to give us his entire 40g saltwater setup at no cost. He's had the setup running for about 10 years. So we jumped on it, but knew it would involve some work and a quick learning curve as well.

The tank was moved Saturday morning and here is what I can tell you.

Size: probably closer to 37.5g based on our measurements. Tank is odd shaped. Close to a cube but not exactly

Approx 20 lbs of live rock

Very thin bed of sand

Stock: percula clownfish (5 years old), brown clown goby (3.5 years old), bicolor blenny (3.5 years old), 2 turbo nails and countless nassarius snails

Power head - no details but present and functioning

Filter - Fluval 304 canister (old but chugging along)

Heater - 50w something that looked like a train wreck. Determined it's not working anyways and pitched it. Tank is hovering between 73 and 74 degrees. 2 new 50w heaters have been ordered and will be here tomorrow. Planning to slowly increase temp by a degree a day until we hit 78.

Food - are fed one cube of frozen brine shrimp every other day

The tank had quite a bit of green algae that we cleaned off during the move. Still have some to deal with. It is also covered with coraline which I know is a good sign, but it has covered the walls and covered the power head and return pipe of the filter. We are working slowly over time to remove it from the walls. Would love to remove it all at once but I don't have enough elbow grease and I don't want to stress the fish for too long of a period scraping.

Water parameters (don't freak...I already am)

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 200pm (or higher...color matched highest number on the color chart)
Ph - I believe was around 8.0 or 8.1

So here are my big questions that I feel are most pressing at this time:

1. Nitrates desperately need lowering through water changes. What kind of schedule would you recommend to get them down? Don't want to stress the fish by a quick major change so thinking smaller more frequent changes until we get to an acceptable level is likely best. Previous owner was doing 50% changes every 4 months. I'm thinking once we are at an acceptable level more like 10% every week to two weeks. I intend to purchase saltwater from a reputable LFS instead of mixing my own until I learn more.
Do 20% every week or even twice a week until the nitrates come down. Though they wont until you clean that canister filter as well.
2. Green algae - should I do anything at this time or do you feel I might see improvement over time as the water quality improves?
This will improve when you get the water chemistry correct with the water changes and filter maintenance.
3. What other water tests are absolutely pertinent at this point so I can get the tests ordered? The test kits he provided me expired in 2007. I gave them a try since I had nothing else but I don't think they were accurate for obvious reasons. The above test results were from a strip test I happened to have on hand from my freshwater tank that I no longer use (I use API Master Kit for Freshwater now). I know liquid is better but was in a bind and the strips were good for salt and fresh.
You'll want to get better tests for your tank. I suggest Red Sea. You wont need Alk, Mg, and Ca until you start keeping corals.
4. The canister filter is working but is old and we will consider replacing it soon. He has only been opening it and checking it once every 4-6 months. I know not to mess with filter media but should I open it and swish the media in some old tank water when doing a water change? Can anyone recommend a new canister filter that won't break the bank and then I will keep this one as backup.
I would recommend getting rid of the canister all together. You could use an HOB filter and an HOB protein skimmer instead. To get all the equipment out of the tank though, you could do an Overflow down to a small sump. You can run a filter sock, protein skimmer and even do a refugium like that.
5. Is the feeding schedule and amount adequate?
Feeding too much is going to add to your nitrates as well. I would feed a small amount every day. Feed a little at a time while watching that it is all eaten and none falls to the sand to rot.
6. Would like to add more sand since it's so thin...what would you recommend?
You can use a small diameter pvp pipe to add a little bit of sand at a time to the sand bed. Purchase Live sand that is wet in the bag and you could probably add it all at once. Just use the pipe to get it to the bottom without clouding the water up.
7. I know a cleanup crew is important...but can too many snails be an issue?
When you start feeding less, the snails my stave, but I wouldn't worry about them. You can take some out and bring them to your LFS for store credit (wont be much so dont get excited lol )
8. Any advice on replacing the glass canopy? It's an Oceanic top and no longer made and a weird size. It was cracked in the move and is currently duct taped together. Planning to go to a glass company tomorrow to see if they can cut glass to fit and reuse the hinge and then buy a handle which I believe I can get at a LFS.
The glass lid will help reduce your evaporation which will reduce the amount of top-off water your going through, but it also impedes gas exchange. If your concern is keeping the fish from jumping, then i suggest making a screen top. You can continue to use this top after you start on corals. They are cheap and easy to make yourself.
I know this is a ton of questions, but we are excited to have adopted this tank and really want to do right by getting it back in shape and adding a little more stock down the road.

Read my suggestion in the quote. I answered in red. Welcome to R2R and feel free to ask as many questions as you can. Read, Read and Read some more. RODI water is a MUST for saltwater! Never use tap.... not even with a conditioner. You'll be needing fresh and saltwater for your new tank. Fresh RODI water to replace the evaporated water during the week and saltwater to do water changes with. A lot of newbies overlook this part when setting up and end up with a mess down the road. I hope this all helps!

 

[mell312]

Surprised to hear two recommendations for a HOB filter. Thought they weren't really ever used in saltwater, but I'm certainly more familiar with and use to them. Is a skimmer completely necessary on a small setup? I do water changes on my freshwater tanks every other week and plan to do the same with this tank if not weekly.

Would an Aquaclear do the job? That's what is on one of my freshwater tanks and I love the space for bio media in it. I've heard the Fluval C line has a lot of room too. I think the idea of a sump is way over my head at this point.

 

[melypr1985]

Surprised to hear two recommendations for a HOB filter. Thought they weren't really ever used in saltwater, but I'm certainly more familiar with and use to them. Is a skimmer completely necessary on a small setup? I do water changes on my freshwater tanks every other week and plan to do the same with this tank if not weekly.

Would an Aquaclear do the job? That's what is on one of my freshwater tanks and I love the space for bio media in it. I've heard the Fluval C line has a lot of room too. I think the idea of a sump is way over my head at this point.

On a small setup you dont really need a skimmer as long as you do your water changes like clockwork. Canister filters are frowned upon because they need to be cleaned weekly.... its a lot of work for not much benefit. Either of those brands would be fine. Most people will replace the media it comes with and use things more appropriate for salt tanks. Some put rock rubble in them, some run carbon, filter floss, phosphate media, chemipure ect ect. I dont use them, so I'm not the best person to tell you what to put in it for the best results.

I will say that a sump sounds like a complicated thing, but really its the same as an HOB except larger and under the tank. Its a place to add water volume (effectively making your tank more stable and easier to manage) and to keep all your equipment which keeps your tank looking clean and uncluttered. Some are way complicated, but a good sump is a simple thing to do. Most anybody here can help with a sump design and how to set it up if your interested. Just look around the DIY or Equipment parts of the forum for ideas and info.

 

[mell312]

Thanks! I'm fairly handy so I probably could figure the sump out, but unfortunately don't have the time right now to figure it out. Since HOBs aren't horribly expensive I think I will move forward with that with water changes to get things moving in the right direction and study up on sumps to maybe do something after the new year.

Question on adding the HOB...in a healthy freshwater I would run the two filters side by side for a week or so to make sure the good bacteria colonize the new filter. Do I need or want to do the same in this case or is there concern of the nitrate issue in the canister moving into the HOB or will the live rock provide the new filter what it needs. Want to avoid the stress of a mini cycle on top of the nitrate stress.

Here's a pic of the aquarium the day we got it moved in.

we've got most of the coralline off the front and side walls and will be working on the back next. What a pain! The only reason half the back is somewhat clear of it is because it was coated in thick green algae.

 

[melypr1985]

Your live rock holds waayy more bacteria than any filter media you would have in there. I would just switch them out.

 

[mell312]

Should I wait to do the first water change until the new filter gets here on Thursday or do a water change today as planned? Didn't know if a water change today would be a waste if running through the canister.

Also, if I run to the LFS today and buy my saltwater from their RODI system and it sits until Thursday will it go bad or be fine?

 

[melypr1985]

Should I wait to do the first water change until the new filter gets here on Thursday or do a water change today as planned? Didn't know if a water change today would be a waste if running through the canister.

Also, if I run to the LFS today and buy my saltwater from their RODI system and it sits until Thursday will it go bad or be fine?

While your doing the water change, clean the canister filter. That will buy you time until you get the new filter on there. I used to by saltwater in 5 gallons jugs and let it sit for a few days until i could find time for a water change. Never had any problems with it.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Just run an airstone in the saltwater you pick up and it will be fine. However, you may have some evap on it, so check specific gravity cuz may need a bit of extra ro.

Good luck and keep questions coming. Sounds like you are going the right route to make this a successful tank.

 

[mell312]

Thanks all! The questions will definitely keep coming! I really want to get this looking beautiful again and more importantly healthy!

Was just thinking of the water displacement caused by the canister filter...assuming the HOB will cause less water movement in the tank. Was about to click buy on the Aquaclear 50, but would a 70 be better for water displacement (there is a power head running but hard to tell how well it's working). At the same time though due to the weird shape of the tank the surface area is much smaller than most tanks of its size so maybe the 50 would be fine.

Sorry for the million questions but they probably won't stop for a month or so!!

Edited to add: I see power heads are fairly cheap. Maybe I save my money for a new one if needed and go with the 50.

 

[melypr1985]

I see power heads are fairly cheap. Maybe I save my money for a new one if needed and go with the 50.

That's what I would do personally. well..... i would go ahead and get the new powerhead and the hob filter.

 

[mell312]

Any recommendations on a power head brand/power? Totally clueless on those!!

 

[melypr1985]

jebao RW-4 would be nice and affordable

 

[mell312]

That one is $60 on Amazon. Guess when I said they weren't horribly expensive I was looking at the wrong things. The ones I found were anywhere from $15-30.

 

[melypr1985]

That one is $60 on Amazon. Guess when I said they weren't horribly expensive I was looking at the wrong things. The ones I found were anywhere from $15-30.

You must have been looking at a maxijet or something. They are good for some things. I use them to pump fresh saltwater into my tank during a water change and mix saltwater. You could turn it into a circulation pump and make it slightly better.

 

[mell312]

Gotcha. Well the new filter took my budget for now so will hold off on a new power head and hope the one I received with the tank holds up and is enough without the canister filter pushing water.

Got 10g of water this morning. Hesitating to do a water change today or wait until I get the filter Thursday. These fish have been living this way for months so while I feel an urgent need to quickly get things right for them I'm thinking another day or two might be okay. Only change they've had this week was the move.

 

[melypr1985]

Gotcha. Well the new filter took my budget for now so will hold off on a new power head and hope the one I received with the tank holds up and is enough without the canister filter pushing water.

Got 10g of water this morning. Hesitating to do a water change today or wait until I get the filter Thursday. These fish have been living this way for months so while I feel an urgent need to quickly get things right for them I'm thinking another day or two might be okay. Only change they've had this week was the move.

Seriously, go ahead and do the water change to dilute any bad things in the water. Go ahead and clean that canister filter too. Its going to need cleaning when you take it off line anyway so might as well get a good chunk of it done now right?

 

[mell312]

Was definitely planning to clean the canister tonight. Have to wait until the kids are in bed and out of the way. Hoping to get a shopping notification soon on the filter. Live in a big city with an Amazon distribution center so sometimes I get lucky and get things over night. If it doesn't ship tonight I will go ahead and change 5g tonight and do 5g more with the filter change. That's a hair over 10% each time.