Advice needed: levelling tank & shims

[Hexabonal]

Hi all,

I have just bought a second hand Red Sea Reefer 250. I live in Hong Kong on the ground floor of an old building with bumpy concrete floors and a thin plasticy layer of flooring over the top of that (yeah... Don't move to Hong Kong for luxury...)

As a result, the tank is not level at all. The front of the tank is 1cm (3/8th of an inch) lower than the back. The right hand side of the tank is about 0.5cm lower than the left hand side.

What should I do here?

Are just shims enough?

Should I place a sheet of plywood under the stand and use the shims on the plywood rather than the tank stand so as to prevent damage to the structure of the stand itself?

Thanks!

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

BUMP for someone who may know! I don't trust myself enough to answer this one! #reefsquad

 

[Captain Quint]

Hi all,

I have just bought a second hand Red Sea Reefer 250. I live in Hong Kong on the ground floor of an old building with bumpy concrete floors and a thin plasticy layer of flooring over the top of that (yeah... Don't move to Hong Kong for luxury...)

As a result, the tank is not level at all. The front of the tank is 1cm (3/8th of an inch) lower than the back. The right hand side of the tank is about 0.5cm lower than the left hand side.

What should I do here?

Are just shims enough?

Should I place a sheet of plywood under the stand and use the shims on the plywood rather than the tank stand so as to prevent damage to the structure of the stand itself?

Thanks!

Size of the tank and stand, please?

 

[Brew12]

Hi all,

I have just bought a second hand Red Sea Reefer 250. I live in Hong Kong on the ground floor of an old building with bumpy concrete floors and a thin plasticy layer of flooring over the top of that (yeah... Don't move to Hong Kong for luxury...)

As a result, the tank is not level at all. The front of the tank is 1cm (3/8th of an inch) lower than the back. The right hand side of the tank is about 0.5cm lower than the left hand side.

What should I do here?

Are just shims enough?

Should I place a sheet of plywood under the stand and use the shims on the plywood rather than the tank stand so as to prevent damage to the structure of the stand itself?

Thanks!

In my opinion, shims are enough, but you will want to make sure that the stand has a shim at least every 2 or 3 inches. I feel this would be better than plywood which can conform to the shape of the floor over time.

 

[JoshH]

/\
| This, and if you can find them, ideally you want to use composite shims instead of regular wood.

 

[glb]

In my opinion, shims are enough, but you will want to make sure that the stand has a shim at least every 2 or 3 inches. I feel this would be better than plywood which can conform to the shape of the floor over time.

Agreed on shims and you need them close together.

 

[Hexabonal]

Thanks guys.

From the Red Sea site:
'The REEFER 250 models are 50cm (20″) wide, 90cm (36″) long with a 250 liter (65 gal) capacity These tanks sit on HPL coated MDF Marine Spec cabinets.'

What about a combination of shims and plywood?

Because it's such a big gap should I be layering two shims facing opposite directions to make a flat block?

 

[Hexabonal]

This is interesting. There appears to be what I think is a foam mat beneath the tank, presumably put there by the manufacturer rather than the previous owner. It is much thinner at the front than the back and seems to be contributing significantly to the problem?

 

[Brew12]

This is interesting. There appears to be what I think is a foam mat beneath the tank, presumably put there by the manufacturer rather than the previous owner. It is much thinner at the front than the back and seems to be contributing significantly to the problem?

That foam mat is important. It should level out when the weight of the water is added and/or the stand is leveled. Since the tank is rimless, the pad helps equalize stresses across the crass so a pin point issue doesn't cause a crack.

 

[Brew12]

What about a combination of shims and plywood?

Because it's such a big gap should I be layering two shims facing opposite directions to make a flat block?

My only concern with the plywood is that it will delaminate and warp in between shims and not serve any purpose. I doubt it would hurt but don't feel it would help.

Nothing wrong with layering shims that way as long as the end result is stable.

 

[Hexabonal]

That foam mat is important. It should level out when the weight of the water is added and/or the stand is leveled. Since the tank is rimless, the pad helps equalize stresses across the crass so a pin point issue doesn't cause a crack.

I thought the same thing at first, but surely the weight of the tank already is enough to flatten the mat? Does this perhaps mean that I need to be careful to not overcompensate with the shims? I suppose it depends if the mat does indeed flatten out or not.

 

[Brew12]

I thought the same thing at first, but surely the weight of the tank already is enough to flatten the mat? Does this perhaps mean that I need to be careful to not overcompensate with the shims? I dupposu it depends if the mat does indeed flatten out or not.

That is a good point. I've never had a Redsea so I'm not familiar with the mat they ship with. I guess it is possible that the matting was damaged in some way causing it to not compress evenly. I do know the matting on my tank is very stiff and even a 300 pound tank didn't cause it to compress much.

 

[infinite0180]

The larger Red Sea Reefers tend to crush the foam pad in the front while the back stays pretty thick. This causes them to lean forward a tad. Its because the front of the tank “hangs” over the stand so that its flush with the door rather than the stand itself. Basically the front glass pane is not supported so the foam compresses under the weight more in the front. Ask anybody who has a larger Reefer tank and they will confirm. If it were me i would make sure the stand is level WITHOUT the tank on it first then add water and see how it goes from there!

 

[Erica-Renee]

Shim Between the stand and the floor at each corner and other Structural members of the stand.Get it perfect level , Start filling the tank a bit and adjust as needed and add shims every 4-6 inches around the bottom of the stand , Insuring the corners and other structural points are shimmed very well and Solid. You can use standard cedar shims or go all in for Composite .. Composite shims are less likely to have water damage but they get brittle over time.. I also have no idea what saltwater will do to composite shims long term.. With that said there is really unlikely enough water to get on the to ever cause harm..

Hope this helps and good luck...

 

[Hexabonal]

The larger Red Sea Reefers tend to crush the foam pad in the front while the back stays pretty thick. This causes them to lean forward a tad. Its because the front of the tank “hangs” over the stand so that its flush with the door rather than the stand itself. Basically the front glass pane is not supported so the foam compresses under the weight more in the front. Ask anybody who has a larger Reefer tank and they will confirm. If it were me i would make sure the stand is level WITHOUT the tank on it first then add water and see how it goes from there!

Very interesting. If the stand is level without the tank on, then what?

 

[infinite0180]

Very interesting. If the stand is level without the tank on, then what?

If it were me i would then put the tank on and fill with tap water and let it sit for a few days. That way you can see how it levels out once full. It may be acceptable after a day or two. If not, i would drain it 3/4 and shim the stand just enough to help compensate for some of the foam deformation then refill and check it the next day. If it were me though, i wouldn't want to add too many shims to the stand to compensate for the foam but if its just a little extra up front then i would probably be ok. Especially since even a brand new Reefer will eventually lean forward on its own. My thought is Red Sea understands this and overbuilds the tanks to withstand it. Does that mean it will hold forever? Not sure, but they do have a solid reputation... Anyways, if it takes alot of shim work and makes you uncomfortable just buy new foam and replace it! Also, since your floor is that bad, i have heard of people removing the little feet on the bottom of the Reefer stands and just shimming inbetween the stand and floor. Those little feet are just nailed in...

 

[blitzkragz]

When I was leveling my 12' stand, I was really unhappy with the wood/composite shims I got from the hardware store because the slope I needed to shim was much more gradual than the slope of the shims, and I wanted the entire base to have contact with the floor.

So what I did was buy this "Wood Veneer Edge banding" from amazon, which let me "build up" a base in very thin layers to get the exact contour i needed, and just break it off. Seems to be working well!

 

[Hexabonal]

If it were me i would then put the tank on and fill with tap water and let it sit for a few days. That way...

When I was leveling my 12' stand...

Thanks so much for the help guys.

I haven't been able to find composite shims here in Hong Kong, just these big thick home-made wooden looking ones. They were cheap so I bought some for at least a practice or I might just leave them there. They stick out but they're pretty dark wood and form a cool pattern because there are so many of them so I'm kind of tempted to just leave them.

One major concern though: the neoprene mat is so compressed at the front that the two back corners actually come off it. Do you think This will be compensated for when I fill the tank with water and it squashes that mat? I suppose it must have done in order to not break in the last owner's house. You would think that the weight of the glass tank would squash that mat.

If the mat does level out with the weight of the water then it could ruin the levelling. This is bloody complicated.