Advice on what to consider next

apex003 · Oct 15, 2015

So I'm looking for advice on what to do next for my system, if anything.

The symptoms I'm battling are:
Pale SPS but with good PE and reasonable growth

STN on a pocillopora frag but no other SPS (I think it wasn't getting enough light)

Also just had acute tissue recession on a trumpet coral that had been doing quite well

Nutrients seem low, although I'm not carbon dosing

Objective: I can't seem to get the deep rich SPS colors or the fat, happy LPS and softies I see in the best tanks

Overview of system:
JBJ 30 rimless about 6 months old
150w Phoenix and Kessil A150 deep blue supplement
Always used RO/DI
Running GAC and GFO
Temp: 78-80 solid w/ chiller
pH 8.3
Alk: 10.9
Ca: 420
Mg: 1290
NO3: 0.5ppm (Salifert)
PO4: 0-8ppb (Hanna ULN)
NO2: 0
NH3: 0
Dosing 2 part and 0.5ml/day acropower
Feed once per day with mysis and oyster feast and every other day with a pinch of Spectrum pellet; this is almost more than my fish can eat
3 fish: a 2" clownfish, 3" Swissguard basslet, and 4" Midas blenny

Params seem spot on but I can seem to crack the puzzle for amazing color and growth

What should I do?
1) Nothing; let the system continue to mature
2) Triton test for other chemistry issues
3) Add fish and/or feed heavier
4) Find a par meter to test lighting issues
5) Something else

GainesvilleReef · Oct 15, 2015

IMO, Your alk is too high. Stop dosing for a while and let it drop to about 8 and dose to maintain that level. Lower nutrient systems seem to do better with lower alk.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 15, 2015

The concern is the color on the one SPS frag?

How long have you had it?

DeniseAndy · Oct 15, 2015

Are the sps and lps in the same tank? Unfortunately, unless placed just right, you cannot have both fleshy lps and sps happy at the same time. Fleshy LPS are a low flow animal. They want lower light usually and no direct flow at all. They need lots of food items to eat too. I am of course referring to the fleshy ones, not hammer, frogspawn.

The sps will want lots of light, lots of random flow and smaller particles of nutrients. However, if you have a deep water acro, you may be having too much light. Depends on the species and where it was collected.

I have run both sps and fleshy lps in the same tank, but you have to be very careful where you place the lps for flow and toxins.

apex003 · Oct 15, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
The concern is the color on the one SPS frag?

How long have you had it?

It's multiple SPS frags showing faded coloration. Most have been in for 2-3 months.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 16, 2015

Sorry, I misunderstood the "no other SPS" comment.

When you observe that they are faded, is that relative to when you got them, and did that happen slowly after getting them (days, weeks), or instantly on being added to your tank?

apex003 · Oct 16, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Sorry, I misunderstood the "no other SPS" comment.

When you observe that they are faded, is that relative to when you got them, and did that happen slowly after getting them (days, weeks), or instantly on being added to your tank?

Relative to when I got them and the fading occurs slowly. When I get them, they will be a deep, rich color but then fade over say 3-4 weeks. All the while, they are encrusting and polyps are out.

Also not sure if this is indicitive of starving corals or normal feeding response, but several SPS will often have their mesenerial filaments out.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 16, 2015

It is possible the phosphate is too low.

I don't see any other chemical issues, and probably wouldn't run a Triton test for this purpose.

The first and easiest thing to do would be to try feeding the fish more, even if they do not eat it all right away. Or try a food intended primarily for corals.

apex003 · Oct 16, 2015

GainesvilleReef said:
IMO, Your alk is too high. Stop dosing for a while and let it drop to about 8 and dose to maintain that level. Lower nutrient systems seem to do better with lower alk.

I think I will back down my Alk. I'm now dosing 30ml/day of Ca and only 10ml/day of Alk to maintain about 420 Ca and 10 Alk. Does that seem odd that there's such an imbalance?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 16, 2015

apex003 said:
I think I will back down my Alk. I'm now dosing 30ml/day of Ca and only 10ml/day of Alk to maintain about 420 Ca and 10 Alk. Does that seem odd that there's such an imbalance?

It is likely driven by the salt mix you are using having relatively more alkalinity than calcium relative to your tank. It wouldn't likely reflect actual demand if the solutions are made appropriately balanced.

GainesvilleReef · Oct 16, 2015

Stop dosing Ca as well. Let everything settle out to the lower Alk level. Then, if needed, adjust the Ca up to about 420. After that dose equal parts of Ca and Alk based on your alk consumption. Every now and again adjust your Ca if it is needed. Don't try to chase Ca numbers. The Ca test kits are not accurate enough.

apex003 · Oct 17, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It is likely driven by the salt mix you are using having relatively more alkalinity than calcium relative to your tank. It wouldn't likely reflect actual demand if the solutions are made appropriately balanced.

I'm using Reef Crystals. Is this something typically seen with this brand? I've had overall good results so don't want to change if I don't have to.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 17, 2015

There's nothing wrong with Reef Crystals in this context, but it does have pretty high alkalinity (about the highest around). I'd just keep doing what you are doing if it is maintaining numbers that you like.

apex003 · Oct 17, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It is possible the phosphate is too low.

I don't see any other chemical issues, and probably wouldn't run a Triton test for this purpose.

The first and easiest thing to do would be to try feeding the fish more, even if they do not eat it all right away. Or try a food intended primarily for corals.

I think I'll try this. Added a new fish yesterday and will need to up the feeding anyways. I've also been using oyster feast for coral food, but maybe I'll look at some of the other coral foods. What about titrating up my amino dosing?

I'm not really aiming for an ULNS setup. Would rather have it balanced with good nutrient control.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 17, 2015

I think the amino acids are a good choice. Unless the nitrates gets too high for your liking, I do not see a drawback.

But they may not add much in the way of phosphate.

apex003 · Oct 17, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I think the amino acids are a good choice. Unless the nitrates gets too high for your liking, I do not see a drawback.

But they may not add much in the way of phosphate.

Randy - Have you seen evidence that SPS obtain significant nutrition from target feeding? I have 90% SPS and I wonder if the particulate food I add is really being utilized or if having dissolved nutrients in the water column is more important.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 17, 2015

apex003 said:
Randy - Have you seen evidence that SPS obtain significant nutrition from target feeding? I have 90% SPS and I wonder if the particulate food I add is really being utilized or if having dissolved nutrients in the water column is more important.

I do not know in a reef aquarium, but in the ocean they do get a lot of nutrition that way.

These articles discuss that issue:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/2/aafeature

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/11/aafeature

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/5/corals/

http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/groups/benthic-ecology/research-projects/coral-nutrition/

from the last one:

"
Results to date indicate that:

Inshore reefs are good “growth” environments, providing enhanced nutritional sources compared to offshore reef habitats
Corals from nearshore patch reefs derive up to 60% of their energy needs from heterotrophic feeding on zooplankton, whereas corals from offshore reefs obtain almost 100% of their energy needs from their symbionts for energy
In reciprocal transplants, corals transplanted from offshore to inshore habitats switch their feeding behavior and increase their heterotrophic feeding"

DeniseAndy · Oct 17, 2015

I was reading results that are in line with that, Randy. That majority of specific corals get around 80% from symbiotics and the rest from water. So, avg that is about right to what they were saying in some paper I read. Cannot remember where at this moment.