Advice with tang introduction/aggression

[Sierra_Bravo]

I have an established White Tail Bristletooth in my DT and a smaller purple tang that just went through quarantine. I chose those two species because according to what's out there on the web, they are sufficiently different that aggression should be reduced. That and the fact that I introduced the bristletooth first since he is the least aggressive of the two.

WRONG!

The bristletooth immediately put the smackdown on the purple - he beat him like he owed him money. The purple now has a punctured side and a split dorsal; the bristle is sporting a cut from his eye across his nose. I let it go for a bit to see if he'd back off after he was cut on the face - no dice. I was able to catch the purple and get it back in the acclimation box.

Suggestions on next steps or things that have worked for you in your experiences?

 

[KJ]

@4FordFamily

 

[Xanthurum]

This one may call for removing the whitetail rearranging the aquascape and reintroducing both at the same time. Another option is to catch the whitetail and put him in the QT tank with the purple at the same time. Even though the QT is a much smaller tank it will be a change and therefore they will most likely get along. Once they are healed they can both go back to the DT. My Powder Blue hybrid and my purple got along great in my small QT tank but now they display more aggression in the DT, nothing major but significantly more than when they were in the QT. I feel like the mirror trick will not work in your case being that you only have 1 fish for the whitetail to focus all of his aggression on. With just he one target the mirror won’t distract him enough. I can say from personal experience that both can be kept in the same tank because I have them both in the same tank.

 

[ChadLo]

I have an established White Tail Bristletooth in my DT and a smaller purple tang that just went through quarantine. I chose those two species because according to what's out there on the web, they are sufficiently different that aggression should be reduced. That and the fact that I introduced the bristletooth first since he is the least aggressive of the two.

WRONG!

The bristletooth immediately put the smackdown on the purple - he beat him like he owed him money. The purple now has a punctured side and a split dorsal; the bristle is sporting a cut from his eye across his nose. I let it go for a bit to see if he'd back off after he was cut on the face - no dice. I was able to catch the purple and get it back in the acclimation box.

Suggestions on next steps or things that have worked for you in your experiences?

This sounds dumb... ensure they have enough seaweed, move a few rocks around, and put a mirror on the side of the tank. They attack the mirror thinking there was another tang in the tank.

 

[4FordFamily]

Honestly adding a single tang to an established single tang has a high likelihood of disaster. The incumbent tang has no hope of getting away or the resident tang not having territory. In fact, the new tang has the entire territory to itself currently and has not had to share its resources. Somewhat like “only child syndrome” but on steroids. Easy to target the new tang, as you’ve learned. It almost doesn’t matter what kind of tang you’re dealing with.

Here’s some more reading on tang aggression and how to handle.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tang-aggression-understanding-and-combating.76/

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Honestly adding a single tang to an established single tang has a high likelihood of disaster. The incumbent tang has no hope of getting away or the resident tang not having territory. In fact, the new tang has the entire territory to itself currently and has not had to share its resources. Somewhat like “only child syndrome” but on steroids. Easy to target the new tang, as you’ve learned. It almost doesn’t matter what kind of tang you’re dealing with.

Here’s some more reading on tang aggression and how to handle.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tang-aggression-understanding-and-combating.76/

I'll start with some of the easier strategies first, like putting a mirror in the tank and keeping the purple in an acclimation box. Re-aquascaping will be tough, and catching the bristletooth may require a hook.

Question: How long, generally, would you keep the purple in an acclimation box before introducing? Funny - now that he's back in the box the bristletooth isn't paying a bit of attention to him. It's like he KNOWS. . .



.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'll start with some of the easier strategies first, like putting a mirror in the tank and keeping the purple in an acclimation box. Re-aquascaping will be tough, and catching the bristletooth may require a hook.

Question: How long, generally, would you keep the purple in an acclimation box before introducing? Funny - now that he's back in the box the bristletooth isn't paying a bit of attention to him. It's like he KNOWS. . .



.

It’s so difficult to say but a week seems like a good time, it would be more effective to catch and remove the white tail and “sump it”

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

It’s so difficult to say but a week seems like a good time, it would be more effective to catch and remove the white tail and “sump it”

Let me ask a followup question on this, as this weekend I'm "fishing" for my whitetail with a #24 fly hook (netting him out of the DT isn't happening). I have a 20 long ready to receive him. The purple is still in an acclimation box hung inside the DT. In your opinion, is it better to:

A. Put both the purple and whitetail together in the 20 long QT and divide it with a piece of eggcrate, reintroducing both back together to the DT after a month or so, or
B. Sufficient to pull the whitetail only to the QT, let the purple enter the DT now, and reintroduce the whitetail in a few weeks after the purple finds a spot?

Purple already has been stressed through this and both tangs in a divided 20 gallon for a month seems a little tight and heavy on the filter. Since the whitetail was the agressor I'm wondering if it may be better to let the purple have the DT now and reintroduce the whitetail on its own. . . but I don't want the same problem in reverse that I have now. I'll go with whatever the prevailing wisdom here suggests.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Giving this a nice, gentle nudge up to the top to see if anyone wants to weigh in.

 

[FarmerTy]

If they are the same size, option B will give you the problem in reverse is my best guess.

I like A, mainly because I think I may have suggested it on our local forum. [emoji6] Just keep up with water changes and it'll work out.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

If they are the same size, option B will give you the problem in reverse is my best guess.

I like A, mainly because I think I may have suggested it on our local forum. [emoji6] Just keep up with water changes and it'll work out.

Darn, busted for asking a wider audience. What do I need to do now? A penance or something to absolve myself with the club? I'm going to be in really big trouble when I write about setting up the CO2 scrubber I was advised not to worry about doing!

In all seriousness, I'm already set up for the divided QT and ready to use that suggestion. However, my poor purple is looking worse for wear from the whole ordeal and if I could spare him an extended stay in another stressful environment it was worth the asking.

 

[FarmerTy]

Darn, busted for asking a wider audience. What do I need to do now? A penance or something to absolve myself with the club? I'm going to be in really big trouble when I write about setting up the CO2 scrubber I was advised not to worry about doing!

In all seriousness, I'm already set up for the divided QT and ready to use that suggestion. However, my poor purple is looking worse for wear from the whole ordeal and if I could spare him an extended stay in another stressful environment it was worth the asking.

I won't tell anyone Scott. Your secret is safe with me and the other 10,000 reef2reef members. [emoji6]

It really is a judgment call on your part what will work. The bristletooth just needs to be removed regardless for the purple to have any chance. You can try it on the display and then introduce the bristletooth back in later with a mirror on the side just in case. If the purple really does look bad,,that would be my choice of action.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I won't tell anyone Scott. Your secret is safe with me and the other 10,000 reef2reef members. [emoji6]

Actually...we're close to 90,000 members...but who's counting...

 

[cracker]

I would" think" the bristle has to come out. Let the purple stay & heal up. Put the bristle in the 20 long or sump. I'd wait long as You can. Consider a fish trap very effective & least amount of stress.
Oh, is there anyway you can separate the display with eggcrate? that way you can take your time getting the bristle out & the purple doesn't have to stress in the acclimation box. maybe they might even get tired challenging each other thru the egg crate. I speak from personal experience . the wall has worked. a stay in the sump or other tank for at least a couple weeks longer if possible has also worked. I must say both methods have not worked also !

 

[cracker]

How do so many people in one place manage to get along as well as we do?

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

I would" think" the bristle has to come out. Let the purple stay & heal up. Put the bristle in the 20 long or sump. I'd wait long as You can. Consider a fish trap very effective & least amount of stress.
Oh, is there anyway you can separate the display with eggcrate? that way you can take your time getting the bristle out & the purple doesn't have to stress in the acclimation box. maybe they might even get tired challenging each other thru the egg crate. I speak from personal experience . the wall has worked. a stay in the sump or other tank for at least a couple weeks longer if possible has also worked. I must say both methods have not worked also !

With my aquascape, eggcrate in the DT isn't the route I wanted to go. I'll put the both of them in an eggcrate-divided 20G long QT tank I have and let them sit there for a month or so, then put them back in the DT together and see what happens. I've been trying to catch this bristletooth for a week via trap and net, he just darts around laughing at my frustration.

Ah, but what he doesn't know is I fish! So I went to Orvis tonight on the way home and bought size 18 hooks and a 7X leader. I'm going fishing this weekend and I don't even have to leave the house.

 

[cracker]

Talk about a homebody fisherman ! LOL
Now I think about it,sounds like fun! wonder what kinda fight the fish will put up! LOL

 

[Michael Hicks]

As bad as the bristletooth is I’d stick a fish trap in the DT with a mirror inside, he won’t be able to resist. I caught a yellow and a PB that way, they can’t take thier buddy in the box so eventually they go in the box. Put them both in QT for 2 weeks with a divider, let them workout aggression with eye contact. Then after 2 weeks pull the divider and see how they do. Then into the DT after 4 weeks. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Finally!!! I got 'em!

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

It’s so difficult to say but a week seems like a good time, it would be more effective to catch and remove the white tail and “sump it”

So a little follow up help: They have been in a 20 gallon QT for almost three weeks with a piece of egg crate to separate them. I hang their nori close together to force them to be near one another while they eat. Each have their own PVC elbow to hide in. Yesterday and today I removed the eggcrate for a brief time while feeding mysis. They ate independant of one another, only briefly sizing each other up and coming together once or twice for some mild tail twitching/slapping - nowhere near as aggressive as the white tail was before and this time it was the purple trying to show who was boss. I reinserted the eggcrate between them after they were done.

So, do I pull the eggcrate and leave them together in the 20 gallon to see how they do longer-term, or go ahead and re-introduce them to the DT and let them find their spots there? I feel that if I leave them in the 20 gallon with it being so small it may erase the good I've done and force aggressiveness. On the other hand if the mild tail slapping I had seen means there is still going to be problems I definately do not want to try to capture them back out of the DT.

Suggestions?