Advise for new Bellus Anglefish?

[Wen]

I have read all I could find on the Bellus Angelfish (genicanthus bellus) and decided to purchase a female for my 150 gal, peaceful, mixed Reef.
Today, she was delivered from DD and is currently beginning TTM in an 8 gallon Innovative Marine with airstone added to the sump area. The fish is a solid 4” and ate spiralina brine within the first hour. She is larger then the description and I’m feeling the 8 gallon is too small for the TTM 48/72 hour transfers. Thoughts?
She may be breathing slightly heavy and is intrigued by her reflection in the surface of the water...which has my attention. The top is covered.
Thank you for any suggestions on keeping this particular angle happy/healthy for the long term.

 

[jda]

These are easy fish that should provide years of pleasure. Just QT it right, keep it alive and make sure that it does not get bullied once introduced.

 

[Gablami]

Yes, mine has been hardy and solid from day one. I like the female coloration much better than the male. I think it’ll be fine for TTM in an 8g.

 

[Wen]

Yikes, this morning the angle is on the bottom, on its side breathing very heavy.
Did a proper FWD and no flukes.
Any advise?

 

[Maritimer]

Other than what sounds like "piping", attempting to pull extra oxygen from the immediate surface area, the lack of obvious symptoms have me a bit out of my depth. Possibly @melypr1985, @Humblefish, @HotRocks or @Big G may be able to offer some insight.

~Bruce

 

[HotRocks]

Other than what sounds like "piping", attempting to pull extra oxygen from the immediate surface area, the lack of obvious symptoms have me a bit out of my depth. Possibly @melypr1985, @Humblefish, @HotRocks or @Big G may be able to offer some insight.

~Bruce

I personally have had very good luck with fish from LA DD, as far as shipping well and acclimation. What is your temp? How did you acclimate? Do you have an ammonia badge? Or have you tested ammonia? How long has this QT been set up?

 

[Big G]

Can you see any redness around the gills? Sounds like your angel may have some ammonia burn. The only other condition that comes to mind with the heavy/difficult breathing is velvet. It's rampant in the industry these days. And it often shows up with none of the usual external symptoms: spots, etc.

If it were my fish, I'd give it a bath in methylene blue to help oxygenate the fish and then observe for a bit to see if ammonia burn is the cause. Follow the directions on the bottle. Usually a 30 minute bath. Aerate heavily.

Beautiful fish.

 

[jefra]

No experience with Bellus, but I have a Genicanthus melanospilos. Though she really likes to swim, she sleeps in a little nook in my rockwork about the size of the PVC you have in there. I'd think your Bellus should be fine in a QT that size for now.

I'd make sure she's getting enough food without causing an ammonia spike in your quarantine tank. Mine seems to do really well with multiple feedings a day from an autofeeder for my anthias.

 

[Brautumn]

I have several angels in qt, 40g with plenty of surface flow (just got a Blue Face Tuesday) from DD and never had a problem and ate the first day. I also don't use copper or ttm on my fish. I only use paraguard and medicate their food plus vitamins or the rare occasion prazipro/API general cure. I leave them in there for a few weeks to observe them, make sure they are eating, gaining weight and normal poop.

 

[Wen]

Thank you for all the replies. Unfortunately, she passed within an hour of my post.

QT was running for a week empty, temp 77, no other fish in tank, Bellus only in there for less then 24 hours before passing so ammonia not a factor, drip acclimated, 1.025 same as bag she came in, no bag water in tank, no lights on tank, no medications cause I was beginning TTM w/ParziPro, no redness around gills, no stringy white poo.. I have dealt with velvet and ich, it wasn't that. I did last ditch FW dip (following proper protocol-temp,pH,aeration,5min) to see if it was flukes, it wasn't flukes.

I read a post on R2R, think by HumbleFish, but can't find it now, about quarantine tank's dos and don'ts...I went through the list and the only thing I didn't do was wipe the qt tank with vinegar before filling it. The article mentioned this because they experienced a loss due to the qt tank contaminated by insecticide. Well, that qt could have collected faint vapors from painting the room next to where qt was stored. IDK. I have quarantined lots of fish, the same way I did the Bellus. She looked very healthy. ugh.

I began qt on a tiny yellow canary wrasse from a different supplier same day, same qt set up, same acclimation procedure the wrasse is doing great. That qt was stored about 20 feet away from where the Bellus qt was, Bellus qt was closest to the painted room.

DD has given me a credit. Just wish I knew for sure the reason why.

 

[HotRocks]

Thank you for all the replies. Unfortunately, she passed within an hour of my post.

QT was running for a week empty, temp 77, no other fish in tank, Bellus only in there for less then 24 hours before passing so ammonia not a factor, drip acclimated, 1.025 same as bag she came in, no bag water in tank, no lights on tank, no medications cause I was beginning TTM w/ParziPro, no redness around gills, no stringy white poo.. I have dealt with velvet and ich, it wasn't that. I did last ditch FW dip (following proper protocol-temp,pH,aeration,5min) to see if it was flukes, it wasn't flukes.

I read a post on R2R, think by HumbleFish, but can't find it now, about quarantine tank's dos and don'ts...I went through the list and the only thing I didn't do was wipe the qt tank with vinegar before filling it. The article mentioned this because they experienced a loss due to the qt tank contaminated by insecticide. Well, that qt could have collected faint vapors from painting the room next to where qt was stored. IDK. I have quarantined lots of fish, the same way I did the Bellus. She looked very healthy. ugh.

I began qt on a tiny yellow canary wrasse from a different supplier same day, same qt set up, same acclimation procedure the wrasse is doing great. That qt was stored about 20 feet away from where the Bellus qt was, Bellus qt was closest to the painted room.

DD has given me a credit. Just wish I knew for sure the reason why.

I know it's another wonderful controversial topic in the reefing community, im not a fan of drip acclimation. Especially for hours. Because of the potential exposure to ammonia. As soon as you cut the bag open, the very small amount of water in the bag is immediately subject to ammonia affecting the fish.

I simply dump the bag water and fish into a bucket and start adding tank water a cupfull every 5-10 minutes. Over a 30min period total. I'm not saying one way is better than the other. Just the way I was taught to acclimate. IMO angels are also one of the most succeptable to issues from ammonia.

Anyway sorry for your loss.

 

[Baldguy]

I know it's another wonderful controversial topic in the reefing community, im not a fan of drip acclimation. Especially for hours. Because of the potential exposure to ammonia. As soon as you cut the bag open, the very small amount of water in the bag is immediately subject to ammonia affecting the fish.

I simply dump the bag water and fish into a bucket and start adding tank water a cupfull every 5-10 minutes. Over a 30min period total. I'm not saying one way is better than the other. Just the way I was taught to acclimate. IMO angels are also one of the most succeptable to issues from ammonia.

Anyway sorry for your loss.

I agree with Hotrocks. I never drip acclimate a shipped fish because of the ammonia problems. When I did years ago I lost several fish that were swimming and healthy in the bag but were dead hours later after dripping.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

I also never drip acclimate shipped fish. I learned the danger from ammonia working at a fish store for many years back in the nineties. If you knew for sure that the water was free from copper you could add some prime to the bag, but I prefer to simply add small amounts of water every 5 minutes and within 30 minutes get the fish into the tank.

 

[Greybeard]

I know that my opinions on this put me firmly into the minority... but I'll share, all the same. My $0.02... feel free to disagree.

Catching a wild fish is stressful. Most resale holding tanks are far from ideal. Shipping a fish is stressful. Lengthy drip acclimation is stressful. Putting a fish all by itself, in an undersized, unnatural looking environment is stressful. Dosing medicines that the fish may not need, and performing large percentage water changes while they are in that unnatural environment is also stressful. I'm simply amazed that _any_ wild captured fish ever survive some of the crap they are put through on the way to our tanks.

I don't quarantine, and I don't long term acclimate. I'll float a bag to equalize temp, pour the bag into a small container and do several 1 or 2 cup dilutions with tank water over the course of a half hour or so, and then put the poor thing into the tank. I loose VERY FEW fishes in this manner, and I haven't had a serious disease issue since the mid 90's. (GBD wiped out my seahorse herd).

I do carefully select my fish. I have a LFS that I trust order them for me, let him keep them for a few weeks, so that I can observe them carefully, for myself. He doesn't quarantine, but he does run copper at a prophylactic level in his fish only systems (excepting copper sensitive species). Yes... I pay more for this service than I would if I ordered them myself. It's worth it.

I also strive to maintain a low stress environment for my fishes. I don't buy aggressive specimens, avoid known issues such as multiple tangs, don't overcrowd my tank, feed good quality foods, some would say to excess I strive to maintain excellent water quality and stable parameters. I make sure there are plenty hiding places, of appropriate sizes for the fishes I'm keeping, etc.

Works for me, take what you will from it.

 

[jda]

I will be controversial with @Greybeard and part of the minority. I do not usually QT reef fish. I do isolate them. I have a 90 gallon fuge, which is like a reef tank that they get isolated until they are eating well and not scared of me... there are pods, chaeto, dragons[flame,breath] in this tank along with rock. I want these fish to see me and think that a meal is coming... which nearly always happens. Once they are eating well out of here, then I put a mysis cube in the fish trap, the fish goes right in and it gets moved to the display.

I will will never QT a leopard wrasse and I have MANY of them... butterflies either. I do not QT my snails, hermits, etc. so I have no illusions that my display is ich/disease free, but I do have fish that stay healthy.

...so, I am looking for healthy, well adapted fish that can stay healthy. I do not QT most fish because this has the opposite unintended consequence.

BTW - I just temp-float my fish and then grab them with my hand to set them into the tank - I hate nets.

 

[Greybeard]

I just temp-float my fish and then grab them with my hand to set them into the tank - I hate nets.

This is not something I'd recommend... especially to someone new to the hobby. There are a good number of fishes common to our tanks in which this would be a rather bad idea... Rabbitfish of any sort, any of the dozens of varieties of fang toothed blennys, coral catfish, along with the more obvious scorpionfishes and stonefishes, are venomous. I'd avoid grabbing hold of any of the strong jawed fish that might take a chunk out of you, as well... parrotfishes, triggers, puffers, boxfish, eels... and I'd add Angels to the list, many have seriously sharp gill spines.

A good quality, soft fiber, close weave net is most assuredly safe for the fish, and much safer for the fishkeeper.

 

[jda]

Touche. I do not grab rabbits. I do most other fish, though. I have got gill-stabbed once by an angelfish, but that bit of blood was better than them getting caught in a net.

 

[rc4kinu]

I also recently dealt with problems with Bellus Angels in QT. Went through 3 different ones 1 female, and 2 males, before I got a healthy male. The female did fairly well through QT only to get killed by the existing female in the display tank.:mad: The first male I received did not want to eat. It also seem to come with a red-colored internal infection which only became worse and what I think caused it's demise very quickly. The second male came in healthy but for some reason died like yours did while ttm. I initially thought it was ammonia burn but tested zero the whole time and I had fresh saltwater mixed in a brute can made at same temp and salinity. Could be a bacterial infection again and I used Kataplex as soon as I noticed something wrong but he still died. The last male I received from DD and took a chance and just temp acclimate and in it went in my 100 gal. DT. The existing female did initially test him but he soon showed her who was boss. lol. Like the first female, he was the only male of the group that did start to eat right away. This has taught me that they are a little sensitive to being coup-ed up in small qt/ttm tanks and easily get bacterial infections from shipping stress and dirty water. So get them in a larger, cycled reef-like setup be it DT or QT from the get-go and get one that eats or get them eating right away. You can always medicate later if something shows up when they are established. My Bellus Angels are both doing well to this day. Good luck.

 

[Greybeard]

I have a pair of spotbreast angels, got lucky, I suppose .

 

[CMO]

For what it's worth with future Bellus aquisitions, I too recently got a Bellus from Divers Den which arrived all but dead, she literally had almost no movement ability at all upon arrival. Thinking this was likely related to ammonia poisoning I quickly temp acclimated her and got her into some fresh tank water within 20 minutes total. After this I heavily aerated the water and swam her around by hand for nearly 2 hours to help her build strength. If I didn't hold her up she would just fall over. After two hours I put her in the DT (I don't QT but only get fish from DD - I know I know) and she perched on a rock to support herself with no swimming the rest of the day. The next morning she was swimming but breathing heavy and looking like it took a lot of energy to stay afloat. But, now a few weeks in she's in perfect health and one of the gang!