AEFW - PraziPro will a super high dose work?

[jd-woodlands]

So I’ve tried about everything on the market for AEFW treatment, nothing seems to actually work. Basting with RO, KZFWS, Purge, AEFW-X, etc, still no luck. Some have reduced the apparent numbers of worms and helped corals heal, but they are still there weeks and months later.

Just was checking with a baster and knocked off a couple of large adults and transferred to a bowl. Tested PraziPro at various concentrations until at one point where the worm pretty much tore in half and died immediately.

I know PraziPro is reef safe for the most part, and was thinking about making my entire DT a PrazIPro bath / Dip. This hypothetical plan would be to dose a very large amount until I see worms coming off and dying, then be at the ready with a massive (75% or more) water change and lots of carbon.

Anyone familiar with very high doses and effects on corals and fish? Should I just break a few sacrificial corals off and see what happens? What about the fish? Have quite a few in the DT I would hate to lose, but if it’s just a 30min bath or less would they be fine?

It’s not practical for me to break down the SPS for dipping, too many pieces and too large of colonies. I’m stuck with full tank treatments.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

testing your proposed concentration of prazipro in a closed environment on a coral you wouldn’t mind losing before applying it to the dt sounds like a reasonable plan.

 

[Arcadiareef]

Interesting idea hope a therapeutic level can be found using this, at some point somethings gotta give.

 

[jd-woodlands]

after sleeping on it, not sure it would help much against eggs though, so I would be in the same boat having to do the treatment over and over again throughout the life cycle...

 

[old salt reefer]

after sleeping on it, not sure it would help much against eggs though, so I would be in the same boat having to do the treatment over and over again throughout the life cycle...

Isn't the idea with a lot of treatments to break the life cycle? So if you did what you planned to do and then did it 3 days latter and then 3 days later and so on you would at some point have broken the life cycle.

 

[jd-woodlands]

Isn't the idea with a lot of treatments to break the life cycle? So if you did what you planned to do and then did it 3 days latter and then 3 days later and so on you would at some point have broken the life cycle.

hmm fair enough.. guess i'll give this a go after giving lanthanum a try. stay tuned in a couple of months.

 

[jda]

Large enough doses of Prazi to kill the worms were deadly to corals and inverts - this was tried when they first became a scourge many years ago. It was a dismal failure with no real hope to continue. High does of Levamisole were more effective, but still not 100% in all cases - this required a lot of flow and I wrote a post about it many years ago if you can find it... might be on RC.

Some of those treatments that you mentioned can take 6+ months of steady dosing to work. Weeks and a few months will not get it done. I have some to never work, like the purge. All of the locals that I know of who used the Flatworm Stop for the longer period at the double dose are still flatworm free years later - the patient zero tank still is (which amazes me that he has not gotten them again).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Large doses of prazi will also lower oxygen and curb appetites of any fish.
Siphon with a 3/8" tubing into a net. Also lunare, yellow coris or 6 lined wrasses will eat them.
Chemically, salifert flatworm stop will work but be sure to siphon dead ones daily as they Can release toxins

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

A combination of Flatworm stop and AEFW-X seems to be the way forward with dipping if you have a really bad infestation.

 

[jd-woodlands]

A combination of Flatworm stop and AEFW-X seems to be the way forward with dipping if you have a really bad infestation.

that has been my go to for like 3+ months, no resolution yet... adding Lanthanum Chloride in to the mix now. fingers crossed.

 

[ScottB]

that has been my go to for like 3+ months, no resolution yet... adding Lanthanum Chloride in to the mix now. fingers crossed.

I have done 2 (standard) doses of LCl. Maybe it helped on the margin. I cannot be sure though as I am throwing the kitchen sink at these things: basting, dipping, AEFW-X (six weeks), KZFWS(5 weeks) and predators. My population is WAY down, but each weekend dip has now 5-10 worms.

Over time, I have managed to narrow it down to 3-4 specific acro species that they really like. The rest remain clean.

This is my "second" battle. I really thought they were gone for about 6 months. I was wrong; some slipped through and rebuilt the population.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I have not seen any in two weeks since I started dosing the AEFW-X. Hopefully, the population was low in my tank and its keeping it surpressed.

 

[Fauna Marin]

I have done 2 (standard) doses of LCl. Maybe it helped on the margin. I cannot be sure though as I am throwing the kitchen sink at these things: basting, dipping, AEFW-X (six weeks), KZFWS(5 weeks) and predators. My population is WAY down, but each weekend dip has now 5-10 worms.

Over time, I have managed to narrow it down to 3-4 specific acro species that they really like. The rest remain clean.

This is my "second" battle. I really thought they were gone for about 6 months. I was wrong; some slipped through and rebuilt the population.

Hi Scott, The key for the success to use AEFW X is to follow strict the Manual and take care that the water parameters are in range, especially some halogens and elements are important for the corals that they can fight against the worms. Also you should stop dosing Amino acids and bacterial products , these can support the grow of Worms also

 

[ScottB]

Hi Scott, The key for the success to use AEFW X is to follow strict the Manual and take care that the water parameters are in range, especially some halogens and elements are important for the corals that they can fight against the worms. Also you should stop dosing Amino acids and bacterial products , these can support the grow of Worms also

Thanks. With the exception of Iodine, my ICP numbers all track well. My nutrients are also in good shape now. I had some extra PO4 for a while, so felt comfortable dosing the LCl in accordance with the AEFW article in Coral Magazine.

I am not a big fan of aminos.

Curious about your mention of bacteria in relation to AEFW. Can you describe generally how these support worm growth?

 

[Fauna Marin]

Could you please show me the ICP? Many tell that all is ok but usually it isn’t

 

[ScottB]

Thanks. With the exception of Iodine, my ICP numbers all track well. My nutrients are also in good shape now. I had some extra PO4 for a while, so felt comfortable dosing the LCl in accordance with the AEFW article in Coral Magazine.

I am not a big fan of aminos.

Curious about your mention of bacteria in relation to AEFW. Can you describe generally how these support worm growth?

Don't forget my question, okay?

Could you please show me the ICP? Many tell that all is ok but usually it isn’t

Maybe you were asking me? I don't ICP test that often unless my acropora ask me to. Still, the numbers are largely the same. High calcium comes from ESV equal 2-part dosing and the high lithium from IORC. Aside from AEFW, my acros are doing very well.

I've dosed 2 liters of AEFW-X over the past 6 weeks. Eight days ago I dipped everything in KCl and had about 10 worms come off. Time to dip again tonight.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Don't forget my question, okay?



Maybe you were asking me? I don't ICP test that often unless my acropora ask me to. Still, the numbers are largely the same. High calcium comes from ESV equal 2-part dosing and the high lithium from IORC. Aside from AEFW, my acros are doing very well.

I've dosed 2 liters of AEFW-X over the past 6 weeks. Eight days ago I dipped everything in KCl and had about 10 worms come off. Time to dip again tonight.

How many grams per litre for KCI as a dip that will kill the worms for sure?

 

[ScottB]

How many grams per litre for KCI as a dip that will kill the worms for sure?

3 grams per liter, but more won't hurt. Dip & baste in a clear glass or plastic container. Place the container on a white background so that you can see the contrast of the dead worms against it. Unless your eyes are real good, have a lit magnifying lens available to guarantee ID.

Higher concentrations won't harm corals but the worms will shrivel and will be hard to identify.

 

[PandoraAquaReef]

Hi Scott, The key for the success to use AEFW X is to follow strict the Manual and take care that the water parameters are in range, especially some halogens and elements are important for the corals that they can fight against the worms. Also you should stop dosing Amino acids and bacterial products , these can support the grow of Worms also

I've also used AEFW X without success and had all my parameters ok. I also would like to see an answer for @ScottB question ("Curious about your mention of bacteria in relation to AEFW. Can you describe generally how these support worm growth?"). Can you please advise?

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Hi Scott, The key for the success to use AEFW X is to follow strict the Manual and take care that the water parameters are in range, especially some halogens and elements are important for the corals that they can fight against the worms. Also you should stop dosing Amino acids and bacterial products, these can support the growth of Worms also

In what way do they fight against the worms? I mean if AEFW-X is killing the worms and stopping them from reproducing what difference would it make if the corals can fight them or not as they should be dying out due to not being able to reproduce right?

We need a drug or chemical that will kill the worms in the same way flatworm exit kills the red flatworms, not some hocuspocus solution that kinda maybe works some of the time if your params are perfect.