Age old newby questions- cycling

[MNoutdoorAnimal]

Hello all,

I’m new to reefing and new to forums as well. From what I can tell though, forums are the way to go for learning about maintaining a proper reef tank. I signed up here based on the BRS recommendations as I have benefited from their videos on YouTube.

Situation:
Used 70 gallon bowfront, 40lbs used dry live rock-fully bleach cured, rinsed and treated several times, 30 gallon sump for refugium and skimmer. 1 bag 1mm substrate-not live, And 30 substrate balls.
Day one: added Dr. Tims one and Only
Day three: ammonia, phosphate, nitrite, and nitrate all undetectable.
Day six: dr Tim’s ammonia chloride added to maintain 2 ppm (maintained to 2-3 ppm daily), but actually bumped to 3 ppm this day,
Day 7: ammonia 3ppm, nitrite 0.4, nitrate 25.0 ppm
Day 8: ammonia 3 ppm, nitrite 2 ppm, nitrate 40 ppm
Day 14: ammonia 0-0.25 ppm after being bumped up to 2 ppm 24 hours before. Nitrite 4.0 ppm, nitrate 90.0 ppm
Day 17: ammonia 0-0.25 ppm(again, ammonia chloride is added to maintain 2ppm daily) after 24 hours. Nitrite 4.0 ppm, nitrate 90.0 ppm
Day 18: I started dosing STABLE, with the same results day after day- same as day 17
Day 25: still the same results, 0 ammonia, 4-5 ppm Nitrite, 90-100 nitrate.

I recently stopped dosing ammonia chloride, because I ran out. Should I buy more ammonia chloride? Should I just brought an uncooked shrimp in instead? Am I doing something at this point? Do I just need to be more patient?

I feel that other people have had success cycling their tanks faster than this, but at the same time some people recommend months and months.

I’m perfectly happy being patient, but am I doing anything wrong at this point. No matter how ammonia I dose my tank, that bacteria smashes it! But my tank has no idea what to do with the nitrites! Will that come in time? Or is there a way I can help it along?


Any advice? Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[Auquanut]

Welcome to R2R! The rate at which the ammonia is being consumed and the level of nitrate suggests your cycle is well advanced. I can't answer the reason that your nitrites remain high. Maybe someone else will chime in. What test kits are you using? Glad to have you as part of the community.

 

[Auquanut]

At this point, I would discontinue dosing ammonia and just feed the tank. The shrimp would be a god option. As soon as you see an appreciable drop in nitrites (which I think will be soon), do a very large water change and add a CUC. Have you noticed any diatoms or algae? Are you running your lights?

 

[S.Pepper]

I had a similar situation with Dr. Tim's...although a much shorter time. After 2 weeks ammonia was 0 after dosing ammonia, but nitrites were crazy high. The tank is cycled when you add ammonia and 24 hours later it's all consumed. However I decided to buy a bottle of Instant Ocean Bio Spira and add that to my water. My nitrites dropped to 0 when I tested the next day. Stop dosing ammonia, your tank is cycled.

p.s. Here's a thread that might help you out: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-readings.660889/

 

[Dierks]

Hey MN!! Welcome to R2R, and great to see another Minnesotan on the forum. I think you will enjoy your journey into making your saltwater reef. There are a lot of challenges along the way but so worth it when everything is clicking!

I recently stopped dosing ammonia chloride, because I ran out. Should I buy more ammonia chloride? Should I just brought an uncooked shrimp in instead? Am I doing something at this point? Do I just need to be more patient?

Here are my thoughts on these!!
I agree with mr @Auquanut that I would stop dosing and start feeding or get a shrimp. (I personally think you simply need to feed as I feel like your cycle is all but over after you get rid of the Nitrites and get that Nitrate level down to a good level with a large water change. Get your CUC ordered, and don't skimp here. Make sure you get a nice large set of CUC, I suggest and got mine from Reef Cleaners: Clean Up Crew and between my last tank and this tank is a world of difference!!

You are well on your way buddy!!

 

[Quietman]

I used same method as you did...only kept 1 ppm ammonia after initial dose those to prevent sky high nitrates...but that's only a bigger water change.

To check cycle...stop dosing, let your nitrites go to 0. Dose ammonia to 1 or 2 ppm then. If drop to 0 in ammonia next day and shortly thereafter 0 nitrites...congrats. You're fully cycled.

 

[Quietman]

And Welcome Aboard!!! I doubt you find any advice to help you on here though...unless you ask a question. Any question. And frequently if you don't.

 

[sfin52]

 

[lapin]

Howdy
If you want my ipinion you are done with your initial cycle. I would not dose any more ammonia. You can wait a week or 2 and the nitrites will go away. Feed once a week.
I would do a large water change and get my nitrates down to 5 to 10. If you want to add a clean up crew you will have to feed them until you see some green growing in the tank. I would order 1 or 2 small fish and start my 2 week TTM QT procedure.

 

[MNoutdoorAnimal]

Wow, thank you everyone for the great responses so quickly! And thank you for the welcoming words.

I have not been running lights. There is no sign of diatoms or growth of any kind. I’m using a combo of API and Salifert test kits. It’s been 26 days since adding Dr Tim’s. 5 days since I stopped dosing ammonia. And my nitrites are unfluctuating and still at 5 ppm. I might give the Bio Spira a try.

 

[MNoutdoorAnimal]

I had a similar situation with Dr. Tim's...although a much shorter time. After 2 weeks ammonia was 0 after dosing ammonia, but nitrites were crazy high. The tank is cycled when you add ammonia and 24 hours later it's all consumed. However I decided to buy a bottle of Instant Ocean Bio Spira and add that to my water. My nitrites dropped to 0 when I tested the next day. Stop dosing ammonia, your tank is cycled.

p.s. Here's a thread that might help you out: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-readings.660889/

This thread was definitely helpful, thank you! I was definitely dosing ammonia continually because I thought it would help keep the bacteria population high and healthy. Maybe that is true to a point. My thought was, because you are suppose to add fish slowly, so that the bacteria population can adjust to the amount of ammonia being produced by the number of critters in your tank; therefor, if I kept adding ammonia my bacteria population would be plentiful enough to handle the CUC and a couple of fish without skipping a beat.

But obviously this is causing more problems with my nitrites than it is doing good.

 

[Eve]

Hello all,

I’m new to reefing and new to forums as well. From what I can tell though, forums are the way to go for learning about maintaining a proper reef tank. I signed up here based on the BRS recommendations as I have benefited from their videos on YouTube.

Situation:
Used 70 gallon bowfront, 40lbs used dry live rock-fully bleach cured, rinsed and treated several times, 30 gallon sump for refugium and skimmer. 1 bag 1mm substrate-not live, And 30 substrate balls.
Day one: added Dr. Tims one and Only
Day three: ammonia, phosphate, nitrite, and nitrate all undetectable.
Day six: dr Tim’s ammonia chloride added to maintain 2 ppm (maintained to 2-3 ppm daily), but actually bumped to 3 ppm this day,
Day 7: ammonia 3ppm, nitrite 0.4, nitrate 25.0 ppm
Day 8: ammonia 3 ppm, nitrite 2 ppm, nitrate 40 ppm
Day 14: ammonia 0-0.25 ppm after being bumped up to 2 ppm 24 hours before. Nitrite 4.0 ppm, nitrate 90.0 ppm
Day 17: ammonia 0-0.25 ppm(again, ammonia chloride is added to maintain 2ppm daily) after 24 hours. Nitrite 4.0 ppm, nitrate 90.0 ppm
Day 18: I started dosing STABLE, with the same results day after day- same as day 17
Day 25: still the same results, 0 ammonia, 4-5 ppm Nitrite, 90-100 nitrate.

I recently stopped dosing ammonia chloride, because I ran out. Should I buy more ammonia chloride? Should I just brought an uncooked shrimp in instead? Am I doing something at this point? Do I just need to be more patient?

I feel that other people have had success cycling their tanks faster than this, but at the same time some people recommend months and months.

I’m perfectly happy being patient, but am I doing anything wrong at this point. No matter how ammonia I dose my tank, that bacteria smashes it! But my tank has no idea what to do with the nitrites! Will that come in time? Or is there a way I can help it along?


Any advice? Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[MNoutdoorAnimal]

Hello all. I did a 60% water change. My nitrites a half hour after the change was still 5.0 or greater. 24 hours after my nitrites are still 5.0 ppm or greater.

Should I keep doing water changes till my nitrites at least get back onto the charts? Is this still the consequence of dosing way too much ammonia chloride? Or is my tank still not capable of dealing with nitrites the way it is meant too?

My nitrates are still off the charts as well. (Greater than 100 ppm). Even after the 60% water change, which I checked 24 hours after the water change.

I thought my parameters were going to look a lot better after a 60% change. But i’m Worried now that it didn’t help. Should I shoot for a 90% water and change and see what happens? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks everyone!

 

[raketemensch]

Did you add the bio spira?

 

[MNoutdoorAnimal]

Did you add the bio spira?

No, I never did. Do you think that would be safe to order online? Worried about it freezing during shipment. Otherwise, i’m Looking at over an hour drive to get to any lfs that might sell it.

 

[raketemensch]

No idea, honestly — I drove an hour today to pick some up.

 

[MNoutdoorAnimal]

I did a an additional 80% water change the day after my 50% water change and my nitrites are finally down. They were 0.25 the day before yesterday and 0.0 yesterday. Added some bio spiral just for good measure. After a month of testing an empty tank over and over, it feels good to have everything settled.

CUC is on its way from Reef Cleaners. Although their recommended quantities seems really heavy. It comes with 153 little critters. 129 snails, 22 hermits, and 2 crabs. Seems excessive to me, i’m worried they are all going to starve. Can I keep them all fed with frozen mysis shrimp? There isn’t much for algae other than more of just a light green/cream colored film over the glass and powerheads and such.

 

[Quietman]

Well, glad to hear the nitrites are there and tank is settling in with cycle.

Yeah...that's a bit heavy of a CUC for new tank. It's recommended to build up your CUC with your livestock, easily remedied though. They are likely going to need some dedicated feeding otherwise you'll get an unbalanced die off and then you're fighting nutrients again. Frozen will do fine as would any meaty food really (won't take a lot either)...some snails eat primarily algae so maybe some nori (unless you have algae in tank now). Once you get fish and tank gets some algae (it'll happen pretty quick) you can back off food and let the population stabilize naturally.

Don't forget to pick up extra empty shells next order for the hermits. They'll take the snails if nothing else available.

 

[raketemensch]

Is doing a WC of that size while cycling really helpful? I’m new as well, so this is an honest question, not criticism.

In my limited knowledge it feels like that might be getting your levels down before they really should be, which could slow down the maturation of your tank.

 

[Quietman]

Is doing a WC of that size while cycling really helpful? I’m new as well, so this is an honest question, not criticism.

In my limited knowledge it feels like that might be getting your levels down before they really should be, which could slow down the maturation of your tank.

Changing water will have some minor effect on cycling time (doubt you'd notice), but the bacteria we grow with cycling does not live in the water column. As long as you're not driving down nitrites to 0 (and that's unlikely) it doesn't hurt. But...you are spending money on salt. I do WC on cycling but only to keep nitrates from going sky high and causing other problems so I dont even start until nitrates are 20-25+ppm and cycle is well underway. That's nothing scientific on my part either, just a feel good thing . You can wait until nitrates are 150ppm and do a couple of big WC and do same thing.