AI Prime HD - 3D Reefing Diffuser

OrokuSaki84 · May 7, 2019

Has anyone picked up one of these?

https://3dreefing.com/collections/frontpage/products/prime-diffuser

I'm about to pull the trigger on one but outside of some instagram posts I couldn't find anyone talking about them on R2R. Any insight or reviews would be super awesome. Thanks guys!

dantimdad · May 7, 2019

No but my son has drawn one up in solid works and I am going to print it. A little bit different design but essentially the same thing.

Fotocha · May 7, 2019

dantimdad · May 7, 2019

They only test one type of diffuser on one light.

Hardly a way to judge whether diffusers work.

IMO and experience, if properly implemented AND you aren't already running your lights at 100% they definitely can improve many lights on the market.

The only improvement on kessils comes if you are running more than one fixture and only diffuse one third of them. I am running three at present and noticed a bunch of reduction in the shadowing by diffusing the front/middle one.

They do, however reduce the PAR by about 12% on my setup for that one fixture.

On lights that use multiple LEDs, they most certainly can help with blending, shadowing and spread.

Fotocha · May 7, 2019

OrokuSaki84 said:
Has anyone picked up one of these?

https://3dreefing.com/collections/frontpage/products/prime-diffuser

I'm about to pull the trigger on one but outside of some instagram posts I couldn't find anyone talking about them on R2R. Any insight or reviews would be super awesome. Thanks guys!

Most of the diffusers out there are basically the same. One of the tricks using photography diffusers to basically achieve the same effect was to employ a Pringles lid. The Prime's puck is about the same size. You might give it a go.

dantimdad · May 7, 2019

Fotocha said:
Most of the diffusers out there are basically the same. One of the tricks using photography diffusers to basically achieve the same effect was to employ a Pringles lid. The Prime's puck is about the same size. You might give it a go.

Not so. Sorry but, I have been testing diffusers for nearly a year now. I have used several materials on several different lights and no, they are not basically the same.

A pringles lid would be a horrible diffuser BTW.

Fotocha · May 7, 2019

dantimdad said:
Not so. Sorry but, I have been testing diffusers for nearly a year now. I have used several materials on several different lights and no, they are not basically the same.

A pringles lid would be a horrible diffuser BTW.

The purpose is to defuse the light, but the amount or the effectiveness , that is highly subjective. Hence the comment on the video.

I don't think comparing something with your eye and claiming because the material is any different or the classification is any different, that it won't "defuse light". A piece of paper over a light source will defuse light. Generally anything white or opaque will do the trick. I think what you mean is effect of the corals is different.

Granted the material might increase or decrease the amount of light passing through the object. I've personally seen the Kessil diffusers and I wasn't impressed by them. My knee jerk reaction is "shoot I can make that"

There are more advance diffusers out there that use refractions and multiple discs. I would be interested in seeing the cross section of one that you find more advanced @dantimdad .

As to the Pringles lid, I have a light meter and a Prime, I'd happily test the idea for you.

If you notice the bottom of the Prime Diffuser's pictures you can see that they have used a Grid to reduce the light spread and focus it more as a beam. I'm sure I could employ that to this as well. The only caution that I would take is that the light might generate enough heat to melt it or warp it - 2 cents

MrArcana · May 7, 2019

I was thinking about getting one for my tank and even asked WWC their thoughts on it since I know they use diffusers on their radions and have primes over their nano. In their opinion it's unnecessary on the prime since it's already diffused and designed for use over smaller areas.

Though I'd be interested in seeing how this thing actually effects blending and coverage.

dantimdad · May 7, 2019

Fotocha said:
The purpose is to defuse the light, but the amount or the effectiveness , that is highly subjective. Hence the comment on the video.

I don't think comparing something with your eye and claiming because the material is any different or the classification is any different, that it won't "defuse light". A piece of paper over a light source will defuse light. Generally anything white or opaque will do the trick. I think what you mean is effect of the corals is different.

Granted the material might increase or decrease the amount of light passing through the object. I've personally seen the Kessil diffusers and I wasn't impressed by them. My knee jerk reaction is "shoot I can make that"

There are more advance diffusers out there that use refractions and multiple discs. I would be interested in seeing the cross section of one that you find more advanced @dantimdad .

As to the Pringles lid, I have a light meter and a Prime, I'd happily test the idea for you.

If you notice the bottom of the Prime Diffuser's pictures you can see that they have used a Grid to reduce the light spread and focus it more as a beam. I'm sure I could employ that to this as well. The only caution that I would take is that the light might generate enough heat to melt it or warp it - 2 cents

With diffusers it's almost entirely subjective to be honest.

It's done almost entirely for aesthetics.

The pringles lid would suck because it's injection molded and inconsistent and I would bet would zap about 20% of the PAR. Not to mention it would probably warp like crazy from the LED heat.

The diffuser material being used in the OPs link is just the same thing I found to work the best to MY EYES and that is prismatic diffuser from Lowe's. It doesn't focus the light at all IME, it spreads it out and reduces disco effect.

I don't think I said anything was more advanced.

The only thing I used measurements for when testing diffusers was so I could adjust the intensity back up the correct amount from the losses than occurred.

dantimdad · May 7, 2019

BTW, if you do buy a diffuser for your prime @OrokuSaki84 , make sure you remove the factory one.

I am afraid it will over diffuse with both in place.

The downside to that is you are also removing the lenses. No biggie if you have a tank less than 16" deep. But, you will lose too much penetration on anything deeper. Just my .02

OrokuSaki84 · May 7, 2019

Thanks everyone!

I have a plastic box roughly attached to my AI Prime HD now with some photographic light diffusion over it. (Opal for any of you filmmakers out there) The spread and shimmer are helped greatly by this but agreed that the PAR and intensity is absolutely effected, if not only a little.

What I'm more interested in is using the 3D Reefing diffuser to block out light spill onto my floor and walls and generally make the viewing experience a bit better. Has anyone had one of the 3D Reefing diffusers or can speak to them as a company/provider? I just found it odd that I couldn't find any threads of people using the diffusers on R2R. I would have thought someone would have picked one or two up by now!

Thanks again!

dantimdad · May 7, 2019

I am almost positive I read a thread about them being good folks to deal with.

I will look back and see if I find it for you.

OrokuSaki84 · May 7, 2019

dantimdad said:
I am almost positive I read a thread about them being good folks to deal with.

I will look back and see if I find it for you.

I owe you and interweb beer! Thanks!

dantimdad · May 7, 2019

Here ya go!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ai-prime-hd-light-shade.553084/#post-5688874

OrokuSaki84 · May 7, 2019

dantimdad said:
Here ya go!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ai-prime-hd-light-shade.553084/#post-5688874

Big Kudos, thank you!

BadPanda · May 7, 2019

Installed both about three weeks ago. No more disco parties for the fish. Increased levels by 10% to compensate. One plus I really like is that it covers the light from water spray.

Fotocha · May 7, 2019

dantimdad said:
With diffusers it's almost entirely subjective to be honest.

It's done almost entirely for aesthetics.

The pringles lid would suck because it's injection molded and inconsistent and I would bet would zap about 20% of the PAR. Not to mention it would probably warp like crazy from the LED heat.

The diffuser material being used in the OPs link is just the same thing I found to work the best to MY EYES and that is prismatic diffuser from Lowe's. It doesn't focus the light at all IME, it spreads it out and reduces disco effect.

I don't think I said anything was more advanced.

The only thing I used measurements for when testing diffusers was so I could adjust the intensity back up the correct amount from the losses than occurred.

Yup I think you hit the nail on the head. I just hate to see people waste a ton of money for what’s generally Tupperware

Ideally someone who’s using only a fraction of their light power. As far as it being able to remove shadows I can only see that working with multiple light sources blending the light evenly over the shadows. Something that a diffuser can’t acomplish

Moe K · May 16, 2019

Hey everybody! I make these diffusers so I will share a little of what I learned after getting much feed back from customers. They are very simple but effective. Even with them being very simple I have spent A LOT of time testing out different diffuser sheets including frosted acrylic and different intensities of diffusion. Its a basic and simple concept. The more intense the diffusion panel, the slimmer you can make the diffuser shroud (by slimmer I mean the distances the diffuser sheet from the puck) but with that you sacrifice a lot of par. In the beginning I was told they looked too big and bulky and almost slimmed them down to accommodate a heavier diffuser sheet to satisfy requests but ultimately it was more important to me the efficiency and effectiveness of the product. I would love to have a proprietary diffuser sheet but after countless hours of testing the prismatic diffuser sheets are the most efficient at doing the job. There are also different types of the prismatic diffuser sheets and I have found a particular one that works the best for this application.

In comparison with other diffusers in the market you do not need to disassemble the lights as it is just a direct snap on design. While AI claims their great lights are already diffused, this is only half true. Each led has a diffused lens over it but the entire puck or cluster is not diffused together. I have seen the ecotech diffusers and they do well in improving par spread but not as well in blending the cluster together as their diffuser sheet is placed extremely close to the puck keeping a nice slim design and also uses a white panal to help reflect more light. So basically they work better at bouncing the light rather than blending. The 3dreefing diffusers using prismatic diffusers spaced further from the puck tends to blend the cluster creating a more uniform spectrum and still gives off a much more natural shimmer.

Diffusers are nothing new. I originally created them for my own enjoyment as I have had a lot of different nano aquariums and tried out many different lights by different manufacturers through the years. I kind of went through an evolution where I first wanted the shimmering twinkle and eventually picked up a kessil a160. As I am obsessed with my reef tanks as many of us are I would spend a lot of time staring into my nano aquarium only later to find that beautiful shimmering twinkle to be annoying and even suspected of causing me slight headaches. Sold that kessil and went back to AI. I also found that many of my sps had bone white skin where the kessil caused sharp shadows. After experiencing the over kill of shimmering with the kessil I still found my Hydra 26HD to be easier on the eyes yet had severe static disco effect that I just wanted gone. So then my diffusers were born and I admit if you seen the older models they were not so pretty (lol) but they worked. I also have to mention the effectiveness of the diffusers will vary from tank to tank depending on surface agitation, depth, and mounting distance. For example, if you have your lights mounted 2 feet above your tank, you may not have any noticeable disco effect. Lights that are mounted 8-12 inches from the water surface will see a drastic improvement.

One more thing I have learned is that there does seem to be a positive effect in coral response or growth with diffused light. Just a disclaimer, I do not have scientific proof of this or claim it as a fact. I am only sharing my experience being exposed to a lot of feed back from my customers reports and reviews. To me it appears not to just be the diffusion the corals like but is the more uniform homogeneous light they are getting. This might be why kessils do so well or also why our more experienced reefers claim nothing grows corals better than t5 or MH lights. But as I said, I can not claim this as fact as their is way too many variables in reefing. I would need 2 tanks sharing the same system, one with a diffuser and the other without over the same type coral. Im not sure if I will ever get to that. Seeing the diffusers do so well with my customers I have begun to think of the possibility of creating a whole new reef light with the same concept in bigger light spread of homogeneous light. Think of it as a total t5 replacement made of led. My new diffusers of the Hydra52 almost seem to accomplish that.

As for the 3d printing part. Anyone that does 3d printing will tell you it is very time consuming to print and maintain the mechanical precision. I have set up my printers for "production printing" for speed while maintaining quality and consistency. With your average out of the box 3d printer a hydra 26hd diffuser frame will take roughly 7 hours to make. At that rate it would be hardly justifiable to offer them to the public. I have reduced that in half and am able to supply them at the prices I do. I wish I could lower the price even more so more people can give it a go but it is still time consuming and involves business costs like anything else.

I hope my comment here does not break the rules since I do sell the product. If any r2r admin see it, please contact me as I would love to be a sponser and have tried to reach out but yet to get a response

I think this was the lengthiest and most in depth I have gotten on the subject so I hope it sheds some light (no pun intended lol) on the subject.