Algae and help using uwc vibrant and nitrate

[the_chef_pierre]

Hey everyone. So my tank has been up and running for over 3 months now and is cycled and has only a goby and pistol shrimp in it so far. It's definitely going through the uglies and I kinda need some help and advice. I actually battled bryopsis around 1.5 months ago and treated it with fluconazole, which did a great job getting rid of it but now its back. I also have the algae growing on the same that I syphon out but comes back the next day. It tends to disappear and turn all white if I blow on it with a Turkey baster.

All my levels are reading at pretty much 0, which I know can be a perfect breeding ground for dino (which I also thing I may possibly have but not sure). I did try siphoning some up and running it through paper towel into a clear container to see if it would come back together after sitting in ambient light and sure enough it did, which also leads me to believe its dino. Phosphate reads at pretty much 0 also. I have a refugium going at the back which is up and running. Recently my nitrate has gone up slightly to 3 or 4 ppm I believe.

I recently ordered new testing kits and UWC vibrant along with their nitrate product. I was told if I help raise the nitrate level it may help with killing off this algae of it is dino. Does anyone have any good experience with these products? I've heard vibrant helps with bryopsis as well but can bring about cyano. Can I do the vibrant and nitrate at the same time? Is one better than the other? Any other comments or ideas?

 

[the_chef_pierre]

Also, forget to mention but i'm also getting this rusty redish brown coating growing on the outake spouts and all over my jebao wavemakers. Its not growing outwards like other algae, just a soft coating the covers it but cleans off easily when I do my regular cleaning.

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

The first thing you should do is get an ID on the dinos. Based on what you've written (zero nutrient condition, re-aggregation test) it sure looks to be dinos. Get a cheap microscope and take a picture and post it here so you can get a positive ID.

Determining the strain of dino you have will determine the course of treatment.

 

[the_chef_pierre]

I was looking to get a microscope but find it hard now because of everything closing from the corona. Its definitely not as bad as it was before, but it appears to be coming back faster now when I syphon it off. I heard that raising the nitrate and phosphate levels may help, which is why i'm hoping the uwc nitrate would be beneficial. I looked into DinoX also but heard this is harsh and should only be used as a last resort, especially on a new tank.

I did have some green bubbles growing up on thin strands awhile ago, but dont appear to be having them anymore. Last I had them, they ended up on the rock rather than on a strand and I was able to get them off and they were super firm so I'm assuming they were just bubble algae rather than dino bubbles. Still not 100% sure though.

I'm starting to think I'm battling all of the worst stuff (dino, bryopsis, cyano, etc) all at the same time.

 

[the_chef_pierre]

Also, I forgot to mention that I have a couple snails in my tank also, and then my two nassarius snails ended up dying. I did have a problem with stray electric current coming into my water due to a defective circulator which I replaced, and one of the snails may have died due to that. Also, the other may have died from starvation as I had them in the tank before I introduced my goby and pistol pair so they may not have had enough food to feed off of. Then again, I still think that they may have been eating what may be dino which may have caused them to die, but my other snails are still going strong though

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

I'm starting to think I'm battling all of the worst stuff (dino, bryopsis, cyano, etc) all at the same time.

Aren't reef tanks great!?

I am currently battling dinos. Luckily they are ostreopsis and are very susceptible to UV, so I have a large UV sterilizer on the way.

I bought a cheap microscope off of Amazon, It worked great to identify my Dinos and it came in about 3 days.

Bryopsis and cyano are the least of your worries right now. You definitely want to focus on getting rid of the dinos. Get an ID and go from there. Don't start attacking the problem until you know what you're dealing with.

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

Also, I forgot to mention that I have a couple snails in my tank also, and then my two nassarius snails ended up dying. I did have a problem with stray electric current coming into my water due to a defective circulator which I replaced, and one of the snails may have died due to that. Also, the other may have died from starvation as I had them in the tank before I introduced my goby and pistol pair so they may not have had enough food to feed off of. Then again, I still think that they may have been eating what may be dino which may have caused them to die, but my other snails are still going strong though

Some dino strands are toxic, some aren't. Another important reason to get an ID as quickly as possible.

 

[the_chef_pierre]

Very true. I just gotta find a microscope than can ship to Canada fast enough. In your opinion though, based on the fact this has been happening since before I added my shrimp and goby (and theyve been in the tank for around 6 weeks) and that the other snails arent dying off, do you think it could be the non-toxic type? Wouldnt they be dead by now if it was the toxic strain?

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

Very true. I just gotta find a microscope than can ship to Canada fast enough. In your opinion though, based on the fact this has been happening since before I added my shrimp and goby (and theyve been in the tank for around 6 weeks) and that the other snails arent dying off, do you think it could be the non-toxic type? Wouldnt they be dead by now if it was the toxic strain?

It's tough to say and I am definitely not the expert in this area (but I did read through all 400+ pages of the dino sticky thread and have picked up quite a bit of knowledge). That's a good read, I highly suggest reading it.

Like I said, I have Ostreopsis right now, and from what I understand it is the most toxic strain of dino. I haven't had a snail, crab, or shrimp die yet, however, one thing that may be helping me is the fact that I am running GAC and changing it out once per week to keep the dino toxins out of the water as much as possible.

My outbreak isn't very big and I got on top of it really quickly, so that combined with GAC is maybe why I haven't had toxicity issues.

I would definitely run carbon if you're not already doing so.

 

[the_chef_pierre]

Right now I've got filter floss, chemipure blue (which i believe has carbon in it), seachem matrix bio media and my protein skimmer running. Youre right though, I'm looking at microscopes online now to see if I can pick one up for cheap and soon.

Should I be doing more when cleaning? I don't want to have to take out the rock work and scrub it. I also have not been stirring my sandbed at all since I set the tank up since its around 1.5 - 2 inches deep depending on the spot.

And you're right, its definitely been a fun adventure in reefing so far but worth the time

 

[the_chef_pierre]

By the way, do you know what amount of magnification I should be looking for in a microscope?

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

Right now I've got filter floss, chemipure blue (which i believe has carbon in it), seachem matrix bio media and my protein skimmer running. Youre right though, I'm looking at microscopes online now to see if I can pick one up for cheap and soon.

Should I be doing more when cleaning? I don't want to have to take out the rock work and scrub it. I also have not been stirring my sandbed at all since I set the tank up since its around 1.5 - 2 inches deep depending on the spot.

And you're right, its definitely been a fun adventure in reefing so far but worth the time

Some people advocate siphoning it off the rock and sand into a really low micron filter sock (5-10), any larger and the dinos just pass right through. When UV is in place, it's popular to use a turkey baster and blast if off the rocks and sand after lights out to get the dinos suspended in the water column so they can be zapped with UV.

Other general things people suggest:

- Dose nitrate and phosphate to get levels above zero. Shoot for 5-10 ppm nitrate and .03-.08 phosphate.
- Stop doing water changes. It's been reported by many people that dinos bloom heavily after water changes, presumably because they like some nutrients in the fresh salt water.
- Increase biodiversity by dosing beneficial bacteria and adding live rock from established aquariums.
- Some people suggest that adding copepods and amphipods and dosing with phytoplankton helps (doesn't seem like there's consensus on this, though, as some have suggested that dinos can consume phyto).
- Get a filter pad and place it in the display tank where there is high flow. Dinos like to attach to it, making it an easy way to export them from the tank.
- Get a UV sterilizer (1 watts per every 3 gallons) and install it so that the inlet and outlet are both in the display tank (UV will work on every dino strand except Amphidinium, so it won't hurt having it in place).

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

By the way, do you know what amount of magnification I should be looking for in a microscope?

I got one that went to 1200x, but it seems like I could easily identify them 200-300x.

 

[the_chef_pierre]

Hmmm. Well I definitely have to consider this more now.

I know the UWC nitrate coming tomorrow should help boost phosphate and nitrate.
As for water changes, I have been changing about 15% weekly, so I might slow that down.
I do add aquavitro seed with each water change to add bacteria.
As for copepods, I have noticed these tiny little bug things crawling all around the rocks late at night under a blue LED flashlight on them (they are super small and crawl rather than swim, and had even seen some all over the glass before and was told they were likely pod babies).
I may look into getting a UV sterilizer as well.

Would a microscope like this one be sufficient you think? I don't want to invest too much on a scope since I probably wont use it often at all.

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

Hmmm. Well I definitely have to consider this more now.

I know the UWC nitrate coming tomorrow should help boost phosphate and nitrate.
As for water changes, I have been changing about 15% weekly, so I might slow that down.
I do add aquavitro seed with each water change to add bacteria.
As for copepods, I have noticed these tiny little bug things crawling all around the rocks late at night under a blue LED flashlight on them (they are super small and crawl rather than swim, and had even seen some all over the glass before and was told they were likely pod babies).
I may look into getting a UV sterilizer as well.

Would a microscope like this one be sufficient you think? I don't want to invest too much on a scope since I probably wont use it often at all.

Link doesn't work, but from what I understand any cheap kids microscope is sufficient. People have reported that even $15-20 scopes are sufficient for identifying dinos.

If it helps, this is the one I purchased from Amazon last week:

Amazon Link

 

[the_chef_pierre]

Yeah I found that one on amazon.ca. Problem is they charge us way more here in Canada. They want $58 for that one I think, which even with the currency exchange is still way more expensive. The other one I was looking it is like the stick kind that has built in leds and connects to phones and stuff. It's cheaper and not sure how good it is for magnifying water, but I guess as long as its in a dish it might work?

 

[skyhawkn5262y]

Yeah I found that one on amazon.ca. Problem is they charge us way more here in Canada. They want $58 for that one I think, which even with the currency exchange is still way more expensive. The other one I was looking it is like the stick kind that has built in leds and connects to phones and stuff. It's cheaper and not sure how good it is for magnifying water, but I guess as long as its in a dish it might work?

Wow! I don't know how you guys afford to reef up there with those costs. That's crazy.

 

[the_chef_pierre]

Its seriously crazy with how much they charge for some stuff up here. The other crazy thing is that theyve banned a lot of the medications used for treatments. Most stuff for treating anything is like totally impossible to find. It was hard for me to even track down fluconazole. One store that seemed to be selling it under the table was charging $10 per pill. Thankfully I was able to get some off a fellow reefer

 

[the_chef_pierre]

My vibrant and refine nitrate balance just came in today. Just reposting to see if anyone has experience with these products and if they can be dosed simultaneously

 

[thedon986]

Not sure on the dosing, but I am winning the battle against amphidinium dinos which are the sand dwellers. They also do not tend to produce bubbles but may get stringy. I have some slight strings here and there on the rocks. I would bet that's what you have. I have been dosing silicates and a bit of nitrates to keep my levels from bottoming out.