Algae issues? Why dont more people use algae scrubbers?

[VintageReefer]

I don't see much compelling evidence to support the idea of growing algae in one place resulting in algae not growing in another - without other actions implemented at the same time."

See posts 384-387

 

[mizimmer90]

I don't believe I have ever said it couldn't influence, I said it doesn't eliminate or remediate or stop or prevent problem algae in another part of the tank. There is a lot of possible influence possible both ways (there is good evidence that many algea in our systems can be actively chemically detrimental to the corals we keep), and the comparative advantages on their own seem to not be enough in practice in many systems...because algae needs signifigantly less of everyting to grow than that corals most people are keeping. If you go to extremes, sure, but most of the corals we keep in a mixed reef won't be happy, and most of the advantages you can give won't stop algae from growing in the display without additional measures.

That is not my model. The words I use matter, just like the words you use matter.

I am not making that arguement, and don't believe I have made that argument, here or anywhere else. I have also picked my words carefully, and those choices make a difference.

Thanks. I don't think you are attacking me, but I do think you are making arguments angainst positions I do not hold. Models like yours, though yours is really nice, have been around for a long time, however, in practice, the models don't reflect what we see happening a whole lot of the time in aquaria, as you seemed to be starting to understand in your previous post.

I have a lot of cognitive dissonance reading this reply contrasted with your previous posts, even the ones that I had just directly quoted.

However, I stated that I follow the principles: 1) try to not back people into corners, and 2) always offer paths out.

I'm happy to accept that we are in agreement that algae growth at different parts of the tank can have an affect on one another, through various aspects of competition and comparative advantages! I respect your experience and feel that I can learn a lot from it in many regards!

We good to agree?

 

[Thales]

See posts 384-387

I’d need all the system details to have an opinion and I haven’t had time to either track them down or ask.

 

[Thales]

I have a lot of cognitive dissonance reading this reply contrasted with your previous posts, even the ones that I had just directly quoted.

i believe you - I did say we were talking past each other from almost the outset.

I'm happy to accept that we are in agreement that algae grown at different parts of the tank can have an affect on eachother, through various aspects of competition and comparative advantages!

We good to agree?

Change ‘can’ to ‘may’

 

[GARRIGA]

No one outside of Polo keeping parrots but I get it and why I didn't mention that. Around me you're likely getting locked up for harassing them knowing how beneficial they are to our reefs.

 

[mizimmer90]

Change ‘can’ to ‘may’

I don't understand this distinction lol.

If you mean to say that algal growth at different parts of the tank are fully able to influence eachothers growth, either through absorption of nutrients, competative advantages, or allopathic effects, then I'm willing to chalk up our whole discussion to a misunderstanding

 

[ScubaSkeets]

Change ‘can’ to ‘may’

May I ask a question?

What's the difference? It's not like the algae is asking for permission

"Can I go outside to play?"
"of course you CAN(you are physically capable of going outside), but you MAY not until you are done with your homework (you are not allowed to).

Also, this is not some kind of formal setting ("pardon me, may I have some Grey Poupon")

 

[VintageReefer]

I’d need all the system details to have an opinion and I haven’t had time to either track them down or ask.

Whenever you are ready let me know. Can do this in dm or publicly

 

[mizimmer90]

May I ask a question?

What's the difference? It's not like the algae is asking for permission?

"Can I go outside to play?"
"of course you CAN(you are physically capable of going outside), but you MAY not until you are done with your homework (you are not allowed to).

Also, this is not some kind of formal setting ("pardon me, may I have some Grey Poupon")

This is exactly how I was reading it but thats why I'm asking for clarification haha. I figured they weren't giving the algae permission!

 

[VintageReefer]

.

 

[ScubaSkeets]

This is exactly how I was reading it but thats why I'm asking for clarification haha. I figured they weren't giving the algae permission!

Slightly funny side story, hopefully to lighten the mood in here just a bit.

I always corrected my son when he used to use "can" and "may" incorrectly

He eventually got it, but it somewhat backfired.

Whenever he wanted me to do something, he would say,
"May you please [do something]?"

 

[mizimmer90]

Slightly funny side story, hopefully to lighten the mood in here just a bit.

I always corrected my son when he used to use "can" and "may" incorrectly

He eventually got it, but it somewhat backfired.

Whenever he wanted me to do something, he would say,
"May you please [do something]?"

My 5yo just learned the golden rule, and now whenever he does something bad he tells me I can't punish him because of the golden rule; we need to treat people how we want to be treated, and that means we have to be nice to people even if they did something wrong! I can't argue with it because he's just too cute lol

 

[Garf]

See posts 384-387

Most likely it floated away. It can happen after a while when it's that thick due to lack of light at the attachment site. It's an element of the sloughing I mentioned. In fact, I posted a video of the aftermath near the start of this thread, the one with loads of pods on the screen.

 

[Pntbll687]

Simply because I don't want to manage something else. I'd rather spend my time growing coral, not growing algae.

Also, my systems run at 10ppm nitrate and .08 phosphate without any refugium or algae scrubber.

 

[ScubaSkeets]

My 5yo just learned the golden rule, and now whenever he does something bad he tells me I can't punish him because of the golden rule; we need to treat people how we want to be treated, and that means we have to be nice to people even if they did something wrong! I can't argue with it because he's just too cute lol

You also can't argue with him, because he's correct!! Ha ha!!

 

[VintageReefer]

Most likely it floated away. It can happen after a while when it's that thick due to lack of light at the attachment site. It's an element of the sloughing I mentioned. In fact, I posted a video of the aftermath near the start of this thread, the one with loads of pods on the screen.

Sorry, that theory is completely incorrect

I was actively tracking and watching each day. It didn’t float away and it’s in active flow, there is no lack of light at the attachment site.

I’m not even going to type anymore to entertain this theory. It’s ridiculous. Any posts about it “floating away” will be ignored.

Next time anyone on this forum has a tank that needs a rip clean just tell them to wait 17 days and their algae will float away and vanish

 

[Garf]

Sorry, that theory is completely incorrect

I was actively tracking and watching each day. It didn’t float away and it’s in active flow, there is no lack of light at the attachment site.

I’m not even going to type anymore to entertain this theory. It’s ridiculous. Any posts about it “floating away” will be ignored.

Next time anyone on this forum has a tank that needs a rip clean just tell them to wait 17 days and their algae will float away and vanish

Ok, lol.

 

[ScubaSkeets]

I was actively tracking and watching each day. It didn’t float away and it’s in active flow, there is no lack of light at the attachment site.

Hogwash!!! Complete and utter hogwash!!
You most certainly did not track and watch your tank 24 hours a day, 7 days a week!!!
It floated away when you weren't watching!!

 

[VintageReefer]

Simply because I don't want to manage something else. I'd rather spend my time growing coral, not growing algae.

Also, my systems run at 10ppm nitrate and .08 phosphate without any refugium or algae scrubber.

I spend zero time growing algae. It just grows by itself in my scrubber. Once every 2 weeks I spend 30 seconds to grab a handful of algae and throw it away.

What do you do to maintain those numbers? I bet it’s more time than I spend on my tank

 

[BeanAnimal]

Your model, which is that algae grown at one part of the tank cannot affect algae grown at another, is demonstrably wrong. It doesn't make sense physically.

I think we all agree that the two areas will compete with each other for nutrients with a demand ratio (in a well mixed system) based on the suitability of each area. Bit I don't think we can easily define the competition or the result of that competition. In other words, I don't feel the model fits even if it is pretty and tidy and the equations balance.

1 - If we take one area or the other away, (let's say that one produces 5 units of algae per time and the other 3 units per time. We don't magically end up with the leftover area producing 8 units per time. In fact, it may still only produce its 5 units (or 3 or whatever). We don't know because nutrient availability is not the only limiting variable in each area and light, flow, surface texture, predation, local competition between already dominant or established species, etc. come into play.

2 - In a similar fashion if we start with an area (display) that produces 5 units of algae per time. Adding an ATS that is capable of 10 units of export at a time does not mean that it will produce 5 and the system will be at zero. What will the ratio be? 2.5:2.5 or 3:2. etc, or will there even be 5 units produced?

Sorry for the layman's model above, but save a few of us, I think several following along could use the simplified break down.