Recently bought a new house and moved my 13.5 gallon nano. During the move the sand got stirred up alot. Soon after I now have been battling a hair algae problem. Really curious the best way to approach this issue. Phosphates are at 0.10 and nitrates reading 5ppm. Alk 11 and Cal 420.
Algae outbreak after move
- Thread starter nickdh4594
- Start date
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Nothing can beat this method shown on these two tanks for a nano.
www.reef2reef.com
Algae Identification
Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?
www.reef2reef.com
Picture please, before you go for the nuclear option.
its not nuclear to move homes, and the way we prep tanks is how to move them safely and avoid issues. Your advise implies cleaning as bad, but it solves the current problems caused by not cleaning from the incorrect assumption that cleaning destabilizes. to balance out options, post a thread you made showing non nuclear fix in someone’s tank, any single example on file will show more options to choose from
cleaning a reef is never bad, it only seems that way to folks who don’t make work example threads of how to move tanks successfully.
we need you to post a good option you’ve ran, to provide context for this one above being a bad option
cleaning a reef is never bad, it only seems that way to folks who don’t make work example threads of how to move tanks successfully.
we need you to post a good option you’ve ran, to provide context for this one above being a bad option
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This reef specifically needs its sandbed clean, there’s nothing good in the mud that gets mixed as we move tanks. Next comes cyano challenges in the uncleaned tank.
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No, I’m not implying cleaning is bad. I would rather see a picture instead of guessing how bad the situation is before getting the H2O2 hammer out.
why not post your counter work example to broaden options so we can see after shots of how you worked remotely in someone’s tank for gha
post any single job, it doesn’t have to be a direct match to a small nano, just any job whatsoever at all, as we choose remediation options here let’s see some after examples from a set of works. Id like to see your projected completion time frames and follow up details after analysis of the problem, from any recent works.
post any single job, it doesn’t have to be a direct match to a small nano, just any job whatsoever at all, as we choose remediation options here let’s see some after examples from a set of works. Id like to see your projected completion time frames and follow up details after analysis of the problem, from any recent works.
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Ok I will upload a pic soon. I read over the thread about washing the sand. Doesn’t sound too difficult and it was somewhat in the back of my mind as an option. Just to be clear I would remove all the live rock and livestock and store in buckets then scoop all sand out into bucket and rinse til clean? Then re add live rock, cleaned sand, new saltwater, and last fish?
Pretty much yes, the highlights are that we use tap water on the sand
sounds crazy am aware, but that’s unlimited rinse, sand has nothing you need including it’s bacteria they’re instantly expendable. The risk is not washing bac away, it’s under rinsing and leaving clouding that is the risk. when your tank is taken apart hold the fish and corals in clean water without rocks or items that can carry in detritus, clean water only
then power rinse the sandbed in cool tap water until it’s 100% clear, final rinse in ro water to evacuate tap.
scrape algae off rocks first, then peroxide goes on clean spots to hit any leftover cells, and this does not harm the filter bacteria on the rock. Peroxide simply has no effect on them, even if you dunked your rocks in it for 30 minutes it would not undo the cycle but we are just applying it externally to the invasion spots.
if you re assemble a cloudless reef it won’t re cycle, leaving any clouding leaves a cycle risk. Match the new water to old tanks salinity and temp and build it all right back up super clean
swish your cleaned live rocks in saltwater, twist and swish about to cast off any stuck detritus to them (by rule algae plugs up pores and causes withholding, expel it all after cleaning)
the deep cleaning buys lifespan time for nano reefs, in a couple more years mine will hit 20 yrs old due to cheat deep cleans. I know hands off is ideal but it’s not very practical and in this forum, everyone needing algae remediation has already tried the hands off all natural method.
when you have a cleaned reef drop the lighting period and intensity a few days, ramp back slowly. We cared for your live rock bacteria in this method, only saltwater and spot treatment touched the live rocks but the sand gets totally completely blasted clear by tap water. It will feel strange as you rinse, it does for me too lol and we have so many hundreds of these on file the patterns are certain.
the only fails I can recall are they changed up tap rinse to ro or saltwater, they left a third of the waste in the sand bcuz they ran out of rinse water too soon, and it cycled. All other entrants using tap did not recycle, 100% with no outliers.
sounds crazy am aware, but that’s unlimited rinse, sand has nothing you need including it’s bacteria they’re instantly expendable. The risk is not washing bac away, it’s under rinsing and leaving clouding that is the risk. when your tank is taken apart hold the fish and corals in clean water without rocks or items that can carry in detritus, clean water only
then power rinse the sandbed in cool tap water until it’s 100% clear, final rinse in ro water to evacuate tap.
scrape algae off rocks first, then peroxide goes on clean spots to hit any leftover cells, and this does not harm the filter bacteria on the rock. Peroxide simply has no effect on them, even if you dunked your rocks in it for 30 minutes it would not undo the cycle but we are just applying it externally to the invasion spots.
if you re assemble a cloudless reef it won’t re cycle, leaving any clouding leaves a cycle risk. Match the new water to old tanks salinity and temp and build it all right back up super clean
swish your cleaned live rocks in saltwater, twist and swish about to cast off any stuck detritus to them (by rule algae plugs up pores and causes withholding, expel it all after cleaning)
the deep cleaning buys lifespan time for nano reefs, in a couple more years mine will hit 20 yrs old due to cheat deep cleans. I know hands off is ideal but it’s not very practical and in this forum, everyone needing algae remediation has already tried the hands off all natural method.
when you have a cleaned reef drop the lighting period and intensity a few days, ramp back slowly. We cared for your live rock bacteria in this method, only saltwater and spot treatment touched the live rocks but the sand gets totally completely blasted clear by tap water. It will feel strange as you rinse, it does for me too lol and we have so many hundreds of these on file the patterns are certain.
the only fails I can recall are they changed up tap rinse to ro or saltwater, they left a third of the waste in the sand bcuz they ran out of rinse water too soon, and it cycled. All other entrants using tap did not recycle, 100% with no outliers.
For sure it’s possible to beat your issue somehow without the cleaning run, for sure. But if we spend years tracking out tank works the concept of trade off invasions becomes apparent: by constantly killing or starving targets in the tank and compounding waste, the keepers may melt gha but they bring on a four month cyano wrecking battle, just check the 250 page fluconazole thread. Massive repeating cyano issues, from the degraded plant material now added to pore-clogged live rock.
doing these actions above simply leverages your tank size to make it accessible to total cleaning, and it heads off all future invasions.
that doesn’t mean one pass fixes gha or cyano for the life of the tank, it just puts the mass in a controlled ratio with low food stores then maybe actual grazers can handle it. If not, this rinse can be done infinitely. I cannot count how many rip cleans my reef bowl has had, more than any reef on earth I’m certain
again I agree lesser actions can work, but they’re not focused on the long term scope and total detritus control is the secret to a very, very long lived pico or nano -for the masses- that doesn’t mean we can’t find examples of old nanos that didn’t rip clean.
Sanjay Joshi has a twenty year nano without one water change. Maritza vase reef on YouTube, best looking pico in the world, is seven years on the same sandbed never a rip clean.
if any ten reefers want to use that method and post here the challenges, we’d be happy to watch the details unfold. The masses will absolutely lose their tanks with hands off reefing, it doesn’t work for me so I’ve traded that amazing artistry which can’t be communicated out to many reefs for compliance into rip cleaning which certainly does work for the masses we have multiple forty page threads testing the method long term.
why can all this be stated about your reef without seeing it, or knowing params? Because the smaller the reef the more it stores detritus and what small reefs do over time is highly, highly predictable except for Maritzas lol. You can run a deep clean on a perfectly working reef, it doesn’t harm, so that’s why your pics don’t affect this option.
doing these actions above simply leverages your tank size to make it accessible to total cleaning, and it heads off all future invasions.
that doesn’t mean one pass fixes gha or cyano for the life of the tank, it just puts the mass in a controlled ratio with low food stores then maybe actual grazers can handle it. If not, this rinse can be done infinitely. I cannot count how many rip cleans my reef bowl has had, more than any reef on earth I’m certain
again I agree lesser actions can work, but they’re not focused on the long term scope and total detritus control is the secret to a very, very long lived pico or nano -for the masses- that doesn’t mean we can’t find examples of old nanos that didn’t rip clean.
Sanjay Joshi has a twenty year nano without one water change. Maritza vase reef on YouTube, best looking pico in the world, is seven years on the same sandbed never a rip clean.
if any ten reefers want to use that method and post here the challenges, we’d be happy to watch the details unfold. The masses will absolutely lose their tanks with hands off reefing, it doesn’t work for me so I’ve traded that amazing artistry which can’t be communicated out to many reefs for compliance into rip cleaning which certainly does work for the masses we have multiple forty page threads testing the method long term.
why can all this be stated about your reef without seeing it, or knowing params? Because the smaller the reef the more it stores detritus and what small reefs do over time is highly, highly predictable except for Maritzas lol. You can run a deep clean on a perfectly working reef, it doesn’t harm, so that’s why your pics don’t affect this option.
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Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello;
I’m probably going to get yelled at or mocked for this but if it helps then it’s worth it. With new people posting and asking for help there are 90 million ways to achieve the same result. There are several ways to help with gha. There is the painful one of manual removal, scrubbing rocks etc, removing all the sand (what’s the difference if you’re moving?), adding sea hare, larger cuc, lower light, better parameters, less food pick an option. But I’m sorry @brandon429 your method is not the Bible and holy grail. Will it work yes, but it’s not necessary. I mean I moved my 240 tank and I didn’t have any gha, and i didn’t rinse the sand, personally I found it gross, but anyway). However I did get Gha almost a year later, and it was a bad break out and honestly my first. I doubled my cuc, went from a 12-8 light frame, and cut back on feeding. Now as fast as it came it went away. Did I do a nuclear option nope. Did I break the tank down, nope. I did add seed daily because it added more bacteria also ( sure if it helped but didn’t make it worse).
I’m not saying the method doesn’t work, but it’s a massive pain labor also. You have no guarantees it will work, nor do I, or anyone else, there are so many options). A very small tank is still risky, and time consuming. I have a golden head sand sifter and he cleans the sand better than I could.
Even with the long term scope, it’s the same as if you were your yard. They are all gone and sure enough five more pop up, remove them then 10 more pop up. Even spraying them, same thing happens unless you do it weekly daily etc).
There is no reason to stress fish and corals out just to clean the sand bed. They are living critters and im certain they have gha on the reefs. If the op does this massive task and loses his fish and corals are you going to fix them? It’s the same with me, adding a larger cuc, probably won’t kill anything except help with the problem.
In no way am I saying your a bad person, or that you don’t have good info etc, but your method is not ideal, specially with larger tanks. What’s worse is you are suggesting lighting off a fusion bomb when you have no idea where the city is? Not to mention it’s solely based on your opinion.
I don’t need to make a special thread on this I mean my only thread is way too long as is, but not once did I throw Thor’s Hammer at it lol.
I would like to see pics of the tank so I can help suggest the correct method for what we have going on.
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I never said mine was the best, just that we still need to see someone, anyone, posting some work to back evaluation perspective. The critique - to - link ratio needs to skew in the other direction Sarah.
my opinions on sand and tank transfers comes from this work
www.reef2reef.com
that’s why I feel his tank is predictable as it sits, even before pics.
when posting options, please link a time you applied them.
in a help request post.
Truly I think diversity of choice is the best option, show the alternates.
Fully agreed there are ten ways to fix a reef without removing its waste stores. From the practice on file we think those ways lose more coral over the long haul than posted options. People following the common rule present constantly above for a different direction, so to begin a thread by stating what works best in practice seemed ok to me, at least we have links to evaluate.
The outcomes logged in work threads are a rare data set, people don’t take time to test out their notions nowadays. The critique comes with no context
getting to see a set of before and after jobs is the rarest thing in procedural battle posts have noticed, this allows someone to make selections off simple pics alone no type needed.
the crazy option comes with the most examples?
edit: per post #2 am guilty of procedural bias heh.
my opinions on sand and tank transfers comes from this work
Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread
I am fairly worried about moving my freshwater setup as it is fairly overstocked (reduces aggression as no one fish gets singled out). I did fail to think about the toxicity of nitrite on top of ammonia toxicity... Here is my plan for the cichlid tank. I have gradually reduced my pH from 8.2 to...
www.reef2reef.com
that’s why I feel his tank is predictable as it sits, even before pics.
when posting options, please link a time you applied them.
in a help request post.
Truly I think diversity of choice is the best option, show the alternates.
Fully agreed there are ten ways to fix a reef without removing its waste stores. From the practice on file we think those ways lose more coral over the long haul than posted options. People following the common rule present constantly above for a different direction, so to begin a thread by stating what works best in practice seemed ok to me, at least we have links to evaluate.
The outcomes logged in work threads are a rare data set, people don’t take time to test out their notions nowadays. The critique comes with no context
getting to see a set of before and after jobs is the rarest thing in procedural battle posts have noticed, this allows someone to make selections off simple pics alone no type needed.
the crazy option comes with the most examples?
edit: per post #2 am guilty of procedural bias heh.
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Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
I never said mine was the best, just that we still need to see someone, anyone, posting some work to back evaluation perspective. The critique - to - link ratio needs to skew in the other direction Sarah.
my opinions on sand and tank transfers comes from this work
Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread
I am fairly worried about moving my freshwater setup as it is fairly overstocked (reduces aggression as no one fish gets singled out). I did fail to think about the toxicity of nitrite on top of ammonia toxicity... Here is my plan for the cichlid tank. I have gradually reduced my pH from 8.2 to...
that’s why I feel his tank is predictable as it sits, even before pics.
when posting options, please link a time you applied them. Truly I think diversity of choice is the best option, show the alternates.
My time, my thesis paper on subjects similar to these when I was in school are close to 100 pages long. I’m sorry nobody is reading something that in depth, there are things called you tube and movies.
when you say I never say mine is the best, but you do even in your first post.
I work in an er I know there are several ways to close a wound. But I’m going to use what ever method works best on a split moment. I’m not going to go read past medical journals on how and why. If your trying to find relevance, if it’s the wrong method, they can bleed to death etc. every time you post your thread (or whatever it is), but if I’m trying to study and learn sure, but in the moment I’m not even going to look at it.
Nick
if you’d like to try alternate options first long before a deep clean holler when ready->boot camp for nanos is a fast and swift thing lol we dont care if it’s first or ninth option. The worse off they are, the better the before and afters will look.
am avail in message if anything seems out of line with the process
It’s ok to try partial actions up to the point of considering a deep clean, a nano is so small we can catch up anytime. If you can find a way to not need a deep clean to turn the tank around and sustain it, people want to know the steps.
if you’d like to try alternate options first long before a deep clean holler when ready->boot camp for nanos is a fast and swift thing lol we dont care if it’s first or ninth option. The worse off they are, the better the before and afters will look.
am avail in message if anything seems out of line with the process
It’s ok to try partial actions up to the point of considering a deep clean, a nano is so small we can catch up anytime. If you can find a way to not need a deep clean to turn the tank around and sustain it, people want to know the steps.
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It’s fair to provide a little closure here using a very similar nano, just wanted to show some recent context for some of the claims here
a few days ago in the link above Gator showed up and in his first sentence written I knew it was going to be a rare one. We get varying forms of hesitancy, justifiably so, when people come to us last place considering a rip or deep clean. They’re scared. Every reef sage they know says our method is harmful
but occasionally there is total unfettered resolve, I’m here how do we begin and end it right now, type resolve. You can get that feel from Gators entry sentence.
this transition on a 32 gallon reef took 24 hours. All new sand, pre rinsed in tap of course.
the rocks were detailed in 12% peroxide not by dip, by external precision application after rasping using metal tools. Reef dentistry.
best rip clean of 2020.
before
after
when I relay remedy options Nick it’s not meant to inflame
its to relay what I feel is the most cutting edge newest science you can get, with pics and about ten jobs a week all logged.
we command nano reefs as a direct correlation to the resolve of the owner, algae invasions are psychology not biology.
we didn’t ask his nutrients. We didn’t identify the species
because that has nothing to do with being uninvaded, that’s growback prevention detailing.
now that the reef looks as it does, follow every known rule and try to prevent needing us again, that’s nano reefing and either way you won’t have an ugly tank-ever. Any nano with any invasion including dinos can run this method.
if you take a perfectly running reef, not invaded, and run our deep clean, then on the outcome it is simply cleaned, but not harmed. Our system does not cause harm, it causes after pics so clear that without fish hovering you’d have to assume there’s no water.
a few days ago in the link above Gator showed up and in his first sentence written I knew it was going to be a rare one. We get varying forms of hesitancy, justifiably so, when people come to us last place considering a rip or deep clean. They’re scared. Every reef sage they know says our method is harmful
but occasionally there is total unfettered resolve, I’m here how do we begin and end it right now, type resolve. You can get that feel from Gators entry sentence.
this transition on a 32 gallon reef took 24 hours. All new sand, pre rinsed in tap of course.
the rocks were detailed in 12% peroxide not by dip, by external precision application after rasping using metal tools. Reef dentistry.
best rip clean of 2020.
before
after
when I relay remedy options Nick it’s not meant to inflame
its to relay what I feel is the most cutting edge newest science you can get, with pics and about ten jobs a week all logged.
we command nano reefs as a direct correlation to the resolve of the owner, algae invasions are psychology not biology.
we didn’t ask his nutrients. We didn’t identify the species
because that has nothing to do with being uninvaded, that’s growback prevention detailing.
now that the reef looks as it does, follow every known rule and try to prevent needing us again, that’s nano reefing and either way you won’t have an ugly tank-ever. Any nano with any invasion including dinos can run this method.
if you take a perfectly running reef, not invaded, and run our deep clean, then on the outcome it is simply cleaned, but not harmed. Our system does not cause harm, it causes after pics so clear that without fish hovering you’d have to assume there’s no water.
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The ORP is now better off in this tank than with any doser he could have bought. To eject all degrading, acid-producing waste is to make orp go where you want it to
live rock surface area: formerly plugged, nitrification now increases because new surface area is exposed to wastewater, it’s not a set of wicks catching and holding more waste detritus. To actually remove algae isn’t a band aid, it’s robbing a plant of the ability to self feed by catching and retaining waste, for on site degradation.
all by the book methods make you keep the algae in place, months. A doser like fluconazole kills algae same as our after pics but now it’s sandbed is loaded with pre and post med waste, which means cyano is coming, and someone will be buying chemi clean to offset that. The common method coincidentally leads you to a pet store to buy something to dose.
you can see in the pics above cyano is not coming for this tank.
detritus zones have poor, acid-tending orp. By opting out of dosing and into forced storm simulation, he has literally reversed the last year lifespan back to brand new, but now with the same great rock and corals and fish and no invasion mass.
you can make a reef tank run indefinitely with this method. Reefing is not about only considering a hands off action it’s about being dynamic and not invaded.
additional hidden benefit: in the prior condition we feed less to avoid feeding algae we chose to farm. this lowers fish immune response and bleaches corals so many threads show.
but this reef? Hungry. Open for business. Pack in the feed by spot feeding corals and now mass will grow vs bleach out. Fish can eat better, not worse. Fill/repeat as needed and you’ll have to cull coral growth constantly like we do in tiny pico reefs.
the mechanisms associated with human dentistry and kinetics / exercise strangely apply to reef tanks as well. stagnancy vs calories burned in export. I’ve found we need a mix of both in ideal long term nano reefing, most tanks have never done a single exercise sesh in their lives, not one. They’ll ride out the passive state to see what it holds. Command the outcome is better.
live rock surface area: formerly plugged, nitrification now increases because new surface area is exposed to wastewater, it’s not a set of wicks catching and holding more waste detritus. To actually remove algae isn’t a band aid, it’s robbing a plant of the ability to self feed by catching and retaining waste, for on site degradation.
all by the book methods make you keep the algae in place, months. A doser like fluconazole kills algae same as our after pics but now it’s sandbed is loaded with pre and post med waste, which means cyano is coming, and someone will be buying chemi clean to offset that. The common method coincidentally leads you to a pet store to buy something to dose.
you can see in the pics above cyano is not coming for this tank.
detritus zones have poor, acid-tending orp. By opting out of dosing and into forced storm simulation, he has literally reversed the last year lifespan back to brand new, but now with the same great rock and corals and fish and no invasion mass.
you can make a reef tank run indefinitely with this method. Reefing is not about only considering a hands off action it’s about being dynamic and not invaded.
additional hidden benefit: in the prior condition we feed less to avoid feeding algae we chose to farm. this lowers fish immune response and bleaches corals so many threads show.
but this reef? Hungry. Open for business. Pack in the feed by spot feeding corals and now mass will grow vs bleach out. Fish can eat better, not worse. Fill/repeat as needed and you’ll have to cull coral growth constantly like we do in tiny pico reefs.
the mechanisms associated with human dentistry and kinetics / exercise strangely apply to reef tanks as well. stagnancy vs calories burned in export. I’ve found we need a mix of both in ideal long term nano reefing, most tanks have never done a single exercise sesh in their lives, not one. They’ll ride out the passive state to see what it holds. Command the outcome is better.
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