Alk/Cal Balance Question

[Lycosa]

Good morning fine people. Just a couple of questions...

I've been looking for this answer but can't seem to find it.

Everyone talks about balancing calcium and alkalinity. Is there a ratio for that balance?

Also, I understand that coral uptake the elements in a balance, but is that the only reason we need the balance or is it more for the chemistry of the water?

Last, I've read that it's fine to only dose alkalinity if you are in a situation where your calcium is too high, and this applies to the first question, is there a limit or ideal ratio that should be maintained for the benefit of everything living in the tank? A line not to cross?

 

[Mark Bradley]

I’ve never heard of a ratio between the two as such - it seems to depend on what is drawing the elements out of the system. However, I do notice, via measuring, that the dosing amounts required of alkalinity, and calcium, are quite close to each other. I have a mixed reef so have a number of corals drawing off the calcium as I understand it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Good morning fine people. Just a couple of questions...

I've been looking for this answer but can't seem to find it.

Everyone talks about balancing calcium and alkalinity. Is there a ratio for that balance?

Also, I understand that coral uptake the elements in a balance, but is that the only reason we need the balance or is it more for the chemistry of the water?

Last, I've read that it's fine to only dose alkalinity if you are in a situation where your calcium is too high, and this applies to the first question, is there a limit or ideal ratio that should be maintained for the benefit of everything living in the tank? A line not to cross?

I do not talk about it and I do not think it is normally a useful concept.

Target each independently to desired levels, IMO.

Alk at 7-11 dKH and calcium at 400-550 ppm seems appropriate to me, and just because one is high or low in that range is not a reason the other benefits from being similarly high or low.

If calcium is 550 ppm or above, and you need only alk, I'd dose only alk. If calcium is below 500 ppm, and you are using a two part, I'd dose both equally.

 

[Lycosa]

I do not talk about it and I do not think it is normally a useful concept.

Target each independently to desired levels, IMO.

Alk at 7-11 dKH and calcium at 400-550 ppm seems appropriate to me, and just because one is high or low in that range is not a reason the other benefits from being similarly high or low.

If calcium is 550 ppm or above, and you need only alk, I'd dose only alk. If calcium is below 500 ppm, and you are using a two part, I'd dose both equally.

I've read over and over that increasing alkalinity independently of calcium will reduce calcium. I figured there must be some magic ratio to shoot for in regard to keeping the alkalinity high while still maintaining calcium in the desired range. It seems my salt mix is already high in calcium and dosing Kalkwasser to maintain cal/alk only increases the calcium more over time. Sometimes as high as 500. I've also read many times that you should dose calcium and alkalinity close together to maintain a healthy balance. I've just never understood the 'balance' or why this balance between cal/alk/mag is important. I understand why I should dose calcium and alkalinity (magnesium seems to be a bit vague other than very generic terms), but the interplay between the three and why these targeted numbers are important seem to be left out of the conversation other than 'it mimics natural seawater'. Perhaps it's too complex to explain in a thread and I'll need to keep on looking for the information. Could you possibly point me to a resource where I can take my time understanding it better?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've read over and over that increasing alkalinity independently of calcium will reduce calcium. I figured there must be some magic ratio to shoot for in regard to keeping the alkalinity high while still maintaining calcium in the desired range. It seems my salt mix is already high in calcium and dosing Kalkwasser to maintain cal/alk only increases the calcium more over time. Sometimes as high as 500. I've also read many times that you should dose calcium and alkalinity close together to maintain a healthy balance. I've just never understood the 'balance' or why this balance between cal/alk/mag is important. I understand why I should dose calcium and alkalinity (magnesium seems to be a bit vague other than very generic terms), but the interplay between the three and why these targeted numbers are important seem to be left out of the conversation other than 'it mimics natural seawater'. Perhaps it's too complex to explain in a thread and I'll need to keep on looking for the information. Could you possibly point me to a resource where I can take my time understanding it better?

One can read a lot of things that are not correct. Reef chemistry has more than its share, which is a main reason for having this forum. Some of what you wrote is just not correct.

Thus is exactly the place to go into chemistry explanations. I am more than happy to expound on any of these areas, but a good place to start is the sticky at the top of the reef chemistry page where you can pick and choose articles that go into great detail on any specific areas that interest you.

 

[Mark Bradley]

One can read a lot of things that are not correct. Reef chemistry has more than its share, which is a main reason for having this forum. Some of what you wrote is just not correct.

Thus is exactly the place to go into chemistry explanations. I am more than happy to expound on any of these areas, but a good place to start is the sticky at the top of the reef chemistry page where you can pick and choose articles that go into great detail on any specific areas that interest you.

Clicked on the ‘sticky’ and a wealth of knowledge opened up! I wasn’t aware of this (my fault for not seeking perhaps). Thank you - I can see my reading for the next several weeks!

 

[homer1475]

Reading and comprehending are 2 totally different things.

Read, and read some more, then if you have questions, ask away and Randy will expound on it. He's a great guy in that respect.

 

[Mark Bradley]

I’m always keen to understand a bit more but not ‘chase the numbers’. My tank takes time (2/3 hours one day and 30 odd mins every other) but not so much that I view it as a chore - it’s important it stays that way to me.

 

[Lycosa]

Thanks for the help. Honestly, I'm not pursuing this to chase numbers, I'm just interested in knowing more. It's complex to say the least and the variables are seemingly infinite. I'm just trying to understand at a deeper level how it all works. I've actually found a couple good videos on YouTube that helped from some MACNA speakers and that helped me wrap my mind around it. I do appreciate the help. I realize the questions were a little too general after learning a bit more. Kind of like asking someone to explain everything they know in an answer and that's too much to ask. Hopefully, as I start to learn more, my questions will be more specific. I've been keeping reef tanks for many years, but although I understand on the generic level what I'm reading with test kits, that's as far as I went. I've become extremely interested in the chemistry of it all. That alone is a massive pursuit I'm finding....and not something I'll learn in any short period of time.

 

[Lycosa]

One can read a lot of things that are not correct. Reef chemistry has more than its share, which is a main reason for having this forum. Some of what you wrote is just not correct.

Thus is exactly the place to go into chemistry explanations. I am more than happy to expound on any of these areas, but a good place to start is the sticky at the top of the reef chemistry page where you can pick and choose articles that go into great detail on any specific areas that interest you.

I'm realizing that now. I just went and looked at all the articles you have written on here and I'll start there. As I said in another post, I've seen a couple videos that helped get at least the basics down a bit better. I appreciate the help. I'll try to have more specific questions in the future. I'll read the articles first and perhaps I'll have less questions to ask. Thanks!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm realizing that now. I just went and looked at all the articles you have written on here and I'll start there. As I said in another post, I've seen a couple videos that helped get at least the basics down a bit better. I appreciate the help. I'll try to have more specific questions in the future. I'll read the articles first and perhaps I'll have less questions to ask. Thanks!

Sounds great!

 

[PeterEde]

I am dosing Randy's Recipe 1 with other trace elements.
When I started I had torches and hammers. I was dosing 11ml ALK and 9 ml of Calc.
For what ever reason I lost a few torches and hammers and have not replaced them.
My dosing dropped to 6ml and 4ml respectively. It does seem a ratio?
Interesting to see how much LPS affected my calc dosing.