Shtiff1
Active Member
I am trying to find out if i added 30ml of this stock solution, how much would it raise my dkh. Tank is 125 gallons, I came up with .08. Attached is the directions for the mix, which i followed. Please help. 
ALK Stock solution
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redfishbluefish
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As a chemist I hate to see these companies bottle up some simple chemical and put a fancy name to it just to sell it at 10 times the going price. This has got to be either sodium bicarbonate (Baking Soda), or sodium carbonate (Soda Ash). And now they want you to make it up as a relatively weak solution. I just don’t get it. Go read THIS article on making your own using cheap and simple baking soda. 2 ¼ cups of baking soda cooked at 300 F for one hour and dissolved in a gallon of RO/DI water makes a nice ALK solution for pennies. And now you can use any of the calculators out there.
If you still wish to use this Brightwells voodoo concoction, call me, I've got a bridge I could sell you.
If you still wish to use this Brightwells voodoo concoction, call me, I've got a bridge I could sell you.
ritter6788
Coral Fraud Private Eye
+1 except I'm not a chemist or bridge salesman.
Baking Soda
To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 meq/L will require about 16 grams of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate; sodium hydrogencarbonate). Since a level teaspoon of baking soda weighs just under 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by ~0.4 meq/L (~1 dKH).
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 meq/L will require about 16 grams of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate; sodium hydrogencarbonate). Since a level teaspoon of baking soda weighs just under 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by ~0.4 meq/L (~1 dKH).
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
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Shtiff1
Active Member
I have bookmarked both links and will read further into them tomorrow. Thank you. The ingredients in this Brightwell is as follows - Bicarbonate, Carbonate, and Borate Salts. Owning a pool company for 15 years i have experimented with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and calcium (Calcium chloride). So I will definitely look into those. Thanks again!
mcarroll
10K Club member
Heheh.
SHEESH, did everyone get Arm-n-Hammer stock for Christmas?? LOL. :xd: And no answer for the poor guy?
There's no voodoo, and had anyone cared to read the posted instructions with the intent of HELPING, they might realize these instructions - a method for figuring out a correct dose - apply to any chemical, so are worth understandng. In fact, many folks out there trying to do DIY might still be interested in understanding the question the OP is asking, even if they can't answer it. (Many just rely on the Reef Chemistry Calculator without understanding.)
To answer the question:
Sounds like you are right on target with your math! :thumb:
Make sure you follow through on the rest of those instructions to compute your daily dosing rate (aka consumption rate). Once you get that under your belt, things get much easier on you. (This method also applies no matter what chems you use.)
BTW, if you're just starting out, there's nothing wrong with using the Brightwell chem's you are using. You aren't going to go through them fast enough for it to be very expensive, and there's always time to switch later - you're not marrying Brightwell after all, just using up the container, or a few. I used em for a long time with a lot of success.
Good luck!
-Matt
SHEESH, did everyone get Arm-n-Hammer stock for Christmas?? LOL. :xd: And no answer for the poor guy?
There's no voodoo, and had anyone cared to read the posted instructions with the intent of HELPING, they might realize these instructions - a method for figuring out a correct dose - apply to any chemical, so are worth understandng. In fact, many folks out there trying to do DIY might still be interested in understanding the question the OP is asking, even if they can't answer it. (Many just rely on the Reef Chemistry Calculator without understanding.)
To answer the question:
Per the instructions in the photo, 1mL of stock solution will raise a gallon of water by 3.6 dKH.
30mL would raise a gallon by (30 x 3.6 = ) 108 dKH.
Into 125 gallons, that gives a (108 / 125 = ) .86 dKH bump.
30mL would raise a gallon by (30 x 3.6 = ) 108 dKH.
Into 125 gallons, that gives a (108 / 125 = ) .86 dKH bump.
Sounds like you are right on target with your math! :thumb:
Make sure you follow through on the rest of those instructions to compute your daily dosing rate (aka consumption rate). Once you get that under your belt, things get much easier on you. (This method also applies no matter what chems you use.)
BTW, if you're just starting out, there's nothing wrong with using the Brightwell chem's you are using. You aren't going to go through them fast enough for it to be very expensive, and there's always time to switch later - you're not marrying Brightwell after all, just using up the container, or a few. I used em for a long time with a lot of success.
Good luck!
-Matt
redfishbluefish
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I do apologize for not answering the original OP’s question. I just get so mad in the face (an Italian expression), when I see companies marketing a chemical that costs pennies, and then selling it for mucho bucks, and also make it sound like they just invented it….and to boot, at a very low concentration
I do wish to point out that although Matt (above) attempted to answer the OP’s question, he “slipped” a decimal point, and made it look like the Brightwell’s product was more that it portends….1 ml raises 1 gallon 0.36 dKH (not 3.6)….so you’ve got some pretty weak solution of Alk.
I do not own stock in Arm & Hammer, and purchased my 13.5 pounds for $5.65 at my local Sam’s club. I just looked up this Brightwell product at Premium Aquatics and it sells for $14.89 for 2.2 pounds. That calculates out to $91.37 for a comparable quantity to the Baking Soda. Hopefully now you can see my outrage.....and Arm & Hammer is still making a profit!
I do wish to point out that although Matt (above) attempted to answer the OP’s question, he “slipped” a decimal point, and made it look like the Brightwell’s product was more that it portends….1 ml raises 1 gallon 0.36 dKH (not 3.6)….so you’ve got some pretty weak solution of Alk.
I do not own stock in Arm & Hammer, and purchased my 13.5 pounds for $5.65 at my local Sam’s club. I just looked up this Brightwell product at Premium Aquatics and it sells for $14.89 for 2.2 pounds. That calculates out to $91.37 for a comparable quantity to the Baking Soda. Hopefully now you can see my outrage.....and Arm & Hammer is still making a profit!
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Shtiff1
Active Member
Thank you for making sure my math was right :-D I will be switching to baking soda i just had to do some reading on how to prepare it. I used to think it was pretty complicated but it really isn't i will also try the Calcium, but I'm not too sure about the Magnesium. The Epsom salt sounds easy, but it sounds like it adds Alot of sulfides of you don't add the Magnesium chloride to it. I am going to try the "reef alchemy" with baking the baking soda in the oven and then the mixing of the Calcium chloride. Thank you all for the help!
kacrocorals581
Gotta have that acro
Good info.
mcarroll
10K Club member
Ahbedarn! I slipped the same decimal as the OP apparently. Thanks for the correction!
As for the stock solution being "weak", that's not a criticism. It's just how they have you mix it - it's actually better suited to dosers at lower concentrations.
FWIW, if you are dosing manually, their liquid products are mixed much stronger and might be better suited.
Cost savings are a red herring until you are using a significant amount of product.
Last, placing no value on the high-quality, detailed dosing info they place on their products like this is completely unfair to the noob. Not only isn't the noob gonna use enough baking soda to save any significant money, they may never learn how to test and dose properly cuz all they found was (if they are lucky to look online) some thread with a link to the reef chemistry calculator.
-Matt
As for the stock solution being "weak", that's not a criticism. It's just how they have you mix it - it's actually better suited to dosers at lower concentrations.
FWIW, if you are dosing manually, their liquid products are mixed much stronger and might be better suited.
Cost savings are a red herring until you are using a significant amount of product.
Last, placing no value on the high-quality, detailed dosing info they place on their products like this is completely unfair to the noob. Not only isn't the noob gonna use enough baking soda to save any significant money, they may never learn how to test and dose properly cuz all they found was (if they are lucky to look online) some thread with a link to the reef chemistry calculator.
-Matt
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Shtiff1
Active Member
I have actually been using Oceans Blend part 1 and 2. You can see the difference when adding to the water the milkyness of it. Oceans blend was a lot milkier(sp) lol. You could tell right off hand that the Brightwell mix was Alot weaker.I just upped my dosing to compensate. I'll use the rest of this and check alk. And are where I'm at. Then I'll try the "recipe 1" and see how that goes.
redfishbluefish
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If this helps at all, here are the actually steps I take to make two gallons of DIY Alkalinity solution, with pictures and comments. Hope this eases any hesitation:
As I had mentioned, I purchase baking soda from Sam’s Club in a 13.5 pound bag. This will make about 12 gallons of Alk solution using Randy’s Recipe 1.
So I’m going to cook up enough for two gallons. I start with two aluminum cookie sheets, and to each one I add 2 ¼ cups of baking soda. By the way any cookie sheets will work….they don’t have to be aluminum….ceramic coated steel is fine as is any other cookie sheet.
While I’m doing my measuring, I preheat the oven to 300 degrees.
Place the trays in the oven and bake for an hour. Here’s one of the great things….it doesn’t matter if it goes longer. I asked my wife to turn off the oven when the timer went off while I was working outside. I came back into the house about two hours later, and it was still in the oven cooking….and I knew it didn’t matter. You can’t “overcook” this stuff.
Here’s another great thing. If you’re in a rush, you can mix the cooked baking soda while it’s still hot….it doesn’t matter. However, I let it cool so that I could easily handle the cookie sheets without getting burnt.
I use two old one gallon juice jugs. I fill them about half full with RO/DI water. Using a funnel, I add all the baking soda from one of the cookie sheets to the half filled bottle. Once all the baking soda is in the jug (from one cookie sheet), I top off to one gallon with RO/DI and shake. The powder quickly goes into solution. Now if you don’t mix right away, like I did with the second one, a “cake” will form on the bottom. That’s OK. Just start shaking and break up the cake. It will now take a few hours for this to go into solution, but no damage done.
Here you can see one gallon that was just topped off with RO/DI water, while the other one is ready to receive the last slug of cooked baking soda through the funnel.
And that’s it. You can now use the BRS calculator (or any other calculator that includes Randy’s recipe). Note, this is the same recipe (equivalent wise), as the BRS recipe.
As I had mentioned, I purchase baking soda from Sam’s Club in a 13.5 pound bag. This will make about 12 gallons of Alk solution using Randy’s Recipe 1.
So I’m going to cook up enough for two gallons. I start with two aluminum cookie sheets, and to each one I add 2 ¼ cups of baking soda. By the way any cookie sheets will work….they don’t have to be aluminum….ceramic coated steel is fine as is any other cookie sheet.
While I’m doing my measuring, I preheat the oven to 300 degrees.
Place the trays in the oven and bake for an hour. Here’s one of the great things….it doesn’t matter if it goes longer. I asked my wife to turn off the oven when the timer went off while I was working outside. I came back into the house about two hours later, and it was still in the oven cooking….and I knew it didn’t matter. You can’t “overcook” this stuff.
Here’s another great thing. If you’re in a rush, you can mix the cooked baking soda while it’s still hot….it doesn’t matter. However, I let it cool so that I could easily handle the cookie sheets without getting burnt.
I use two old one gallon juice jugs. I fill them about half full with RO/DI water. Using a funnel, I add all the baking soda from one of the cookie sheets to the half filled bottle. Once all the baking soda is in the jug (from one cookie sheet), I top off to one gallon with RO/DI and shake. The powder quickly goes into solution. Now if you don’t mix right away, like I did with the second one, a “cake” will form on the bottom. That’s OK. Just start shaking and break up the cake. It will now take a few hours for this to go into solution, but no damage done.
Here you can see one gallon that was just topped off with RO/DI water, while the other one is ready to receive the last slug of cooked baking soda through the funnel.
And that’s it. You can now use the BRS calculator (or any other calculator that includes Randy’s recipe). Note, this is the same recipe (equivalent wise), as the BRS recipe.
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Shtiff1
Active Member
That is the one I'm going to use. My PH is and has always been 8.3 when tested. Will i be able to use this one or should i try recipe 2? Do you also use recipe 1 for the Calcium? Last but not least, how long should you wait in between dosing the two? Thanks
redfishbluefish
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A pH of 8.3 is still acceptable, albeit on the high side. If you do want to lower it, don’t cook the baking soda. This sodium bicarbonate solution has a slightly lower pH and will help lowering your pH. Note that by not cooking it, the solubility is considerably lower, so you’ll have to use half as much…..that is, recipe 2 in Randy’s article. Even at 1 1/8 cups for one gallon, it’s still tough to get into solution.
You can use either Recipe 1 or 2 for calcium. Just realize if you use Recipe 1 for Calcium and Recipe 2 for Alkalinity, you’ll only need half the volume of calcium per volume of Alkalinity (OR twice the alkalinity for the volume of calcium….either or). As I just typed this….it just might be simplest to stick with one recipe number then to dabble with two different equivalents. If you’re going to use Recipe 2 for Alkalinity, use Recipe 2 for Calcium….makes life easier.
As far as waiting between dosing the two different parts….enough time for the first solution to dilute into your tank…..to pick a number, three to five minutes. I now dose with pumps three times a day for each, separated by at least an hour….but this hour isn’t necessary….I just wanted to spread out the dosing.
You can use either Recipe 1 or 2 for calcium. Just realize if you use Recipe 1 for Calcium and Recipe 2 for Alkalinity, you’ll only need half the volume of calcium per volume of Alkalinity (OR twice the alkalinity for the volume of calcium….either or). As I just typed this….it just might be simplest to stick with one recipe number then to dabble with two different equivalents. If you’re going to use Recipe 2 for Alkalinity, use Recipe 2 for Calcium….makes life easier.
As far as waiting between dosing the two different parts….enough time for the first solution to dilute into your tank…..to pick a number, three to five minutes. I now dose with pumps three times a day for each, separated by at least an hour….but this hour isn’t necessary….I just wanted to spread out the dosing.
ritter6788
Coral Fraud Private Eye
I just recently discovered, if you stir the water while pouring in the soda ash it won't cake at all and immediately goes into solution. I started mixing it in a separate pail and then pouring it into my dosing container.
mcarroll
10K Club member
If you have no pH issues (8.3 is right in the normal range....room to dip a little and still be will into the normal range) I would absolutely skip baking the baking soda. Waste of energy. Your tank will easily absorb the minute amount of CO2 that will dissociate from the bicarbonate and it will rapidly off-gass into the air. (Not so much, if you are someone already with low pH.) Keep your alkalinity in your target range (8 dkH or higher, I say) and you won't have issues.
This is ultimately true if you are running a doser where the alkalinity is very stable and quantities of solution going into the tank at any one time are very very small in the first place, making the quantity of CO2 infinitesimal.
I always use Recipe 2, and strangely I've never had an issue getting it to mix...contrary to the "Improved Two Part.." article's advice. Always wondered if I was the only one? I simply weigh out raw baking soda onto a piece of waxed paper, use that to dump it into about 3/4 of a gallon of water, top up with the rest of the gallon, seal the container and shake manually for about 2-3 minutes. It's typically 100% clear and ready for use at this point, or very soon after. Is this similar to your experience?
Same trick works with mixing saltwater too, FWIW.
If you stir the water (most churn vs stir) you can dump the salt in pretty much at will and with just a little more light mixing it will be fully dissolved. Handy if you happen to be stuck mixing without a pump.
-Matt
